div

The temporary loan of £100k to the club by Maxi Group to cover a cashflow problem has no relevance whatsoever to the proposed 10000Hours purchase of the majority shareholding of St.Mirren but to me it is nice to know that in future should we have issues that require temporary finance that we can perhaps use this facility again.
The funds that are being used have been SPECIFICALLY created to assist community purchases of this type. If you feel bad about it then console yourself with the fact that £2m will be buying assets that cost over £10m to construct. It is good value and in any case it is not up to you to decide if it is a good use of the funds, it is up to the fund managers whose job it is to go through the required due diligence. If they are content with the business model then you have no cause to complain.
If people can't afford to contribute then they won't and nor should they. I find it patronising in the extreme that you think people can't make the decision for themselves. 300 individuals represents under 10% of our average home support. That is all the group requires to fulfil the business model.
Jesus Christ, can you seriously go any lower with this smear campaign ? Kibble are a £20m organisation, I think they will know what represents good value to their organisation and what does not. Again they do not need to take advice from you on how to conduct their business !
Virtually powerless ? They will be given a budget to work with which is determined by the Exec board. Aside from that caveat and the award of major contracts they will be able to run the club as they see fit. Do you seriously think the club should run without any compliance with a budget ? Aren't you supposed to be an accountant ?

The temporary loan of £100k to the club by Maxi Group to cover a cashflow problem has no relevance whatsoever to the proposed 10000Hours purchase of the majority shareholding of St.Mirren but to me it is nice to know that in future should we have issues that require temporary finance that we can perhaps use this facility again.
The funds that are being used have been SPECIFICALLY created to assist community purchases of this type. If you feel bad about it then console yourself with the fact that £2m will be buying assets that cost over £10m to construct. It is good value and in any case it is not up to you to decide if it is a good use of the funds, it is up to the fund managers whose job it is to go through the required due diligence. If they are content with the business model then you have no cause to complain.
If people can't afford to contribute then they won't and nor should they. I find it patronising in the extreme that you think people can't make the decision for themselves. 300 individuals represents under 10% of our average home support. That is all the group requires to fulfil the business model.
Jesus Christ, can you seriously go any lower with this smear campaign ? Kibble are a £20m organisation, I think they will know what represents good value to their organisation and what does not. Again they do not need to take advice from you on how to conduct their business !
Virtually powerless ? They will be given a budget to work with which is determined by the Exec board. Aside from that caveat and the award of major contracts they will be able to run the club as they see fit. Do you seriously think the club should run without any compliance with a budget ? Aren't you supposed to be an accountant ?

Definitely a medical taking place at St.Mirren Park tomorrow

My kids are happy enough with the odd trip to Xscape and a new DS game every now and then...

I handed mine in to the stadium reception last week. Took me ages to reach Kath's desk due to all the new signings having their photos taken at the tiled club crest.

Yes, I could do that, or just spend all my disposable income on beer and strippers which seems like a lot more fun to me

Well Div the answer is simple. As you are growing 2 businesses and have 2 young kids here's what you do. Don't mess about with a paltry £120 per annum individual membership but sign up to the corporate scheme. As we have 2 current vacancies you can complete the set! it will only cost you 20 grand per annum and you can use this influence to campaign for a cresh for the little ones while obtaining a bespoke memorandum. You will have 2 votes instead of 1 and can decide to vote/ oppose yourself... or both. This will elevate you to a duality status only ever achieved once on here by Yule and Animal.

Dear Div,
Any chance you could photocopy all the completed application forms and send them off to the address of my colleague in Nigeria which I will forward to you. I promise not to take any money from the accounts until the CIC scheme is up and running. Please don't worry about the data protection issues and the like. I really am an honest guy.

I've asked if we can have a Q&A night at the stadium, the aim will be that on the night people can complete the form there and then.
They should maybe also have a pile of forms at reception in the stadium that folk could drop by and fill in I guess. Only takes 2 mins.

I'm all for debate but I think it have to be carefully managed.
A debate about the CIC would work much better if the people opposed to the CIC had some alternative plan in mind.
Someone standing up and hurling abuse at Richard Atkinson and asking "What's in it for you?" over and over again does not exactly constitute a debate in my opinion.
(That said if there was someone out there who could voice their opposition in a reasonable and constructive manner, it might be a worthwhile exercise. Although it may be hard to take anybody seriously when they are dressed as a cowboy!)

Was wondering if the CIC should arrange a final meeting down at the club, open invite to anyone who wants to come down and take part in a simple straight forward Q&A session, have a pint, have a chat about it all, and sign up the DD forms on the night if they are convinced ?
Maybe have the new strips on show as well, and to talk about the plans post takeover if it does indeed go through.
Just strikes me that there is still a lot of doubt kicking around, and that more forms are likely to be signed on the night if people have had their questions answered directly.
Thoughts ?

Yes I don't think that is a bad idea at all. The whole process should be transparent, open and honest. If there are those within our support that genuinely believe this project is a bad move for the club then they have to stand up and be counted and a public Q&A will give them that platform. I am sure the CIC guys would even allow those guys to take the mic and address the audience if they so wished ?

gone

I can only suggest you look at the facts as they stand now. Richard Atkinson has spent 8 months on the board of St Mirren before bringing his preposal to the fore. In that time he has worked with both the funding bodies and the board to make sure it was possible to conclude a deal for a cic at the club. If at any time the board or he felt it was not possible they would have parted ways and St Mirren would be back up for sale. The message from REA is that 2 funding bodies have still to agree to the proposal. Given that 8 funding departments are involved and the amount of monies they have at there disposal will be for differing amounts it may well be possible that the final 2 have by far the most of the cash needed to conclude the deal. This could well be what you have heard (if it was a good source) and it would not surprise me if only £300,000 was currently agreed for the cic to take place. There may very well be some anxious members on the board as they have made it clear they want out and after having agreed a price and missed up to 4 deadlines for the sale you can understand their possition. The issue of direct debit mandates shows all of us that the buyout is on track as the last thing REA would need was to keep something like this going while only hoping it would go through. The terms and conditions which were laid on the table to these 2 funding bodies have obviously been met and the deal will conclude in June.

Hey Yul, why do you post these things as "Yul" and your other anti-CIC stuff using your "animal" account ?
Remember I can see your IP

While I completely agree with your sentiment, there are always going to be people who are harder to convince. I think there are genuinely a lot of people out there who think that someone will come in, buy the shares and invest millions directly into the club budget. To accept the CIC, you first have to accept that's not going to happen which will be an issue for some people.
Because this scheme doesn't involve putting directly into the club (which you can argue is the best thing about it), people are naturally going to wonder exactly where their money will go. After all investing in the CIC is half the price of a season ticket and you don't get the 28 and 1/2 hours of pain and suffering to go with it.
In addition there are a lot people who think that there must be something in it for Richard Atkinson.
These reasons are why I think that there is still plenty of scope for debate.
Also the CIC is not a completely formed idea, it relies on us all getting involved and contributing ideas. I think there is plenty of scope for debate about this too. So for me there is still plenty of reason for debate.
The idea of posing as a cowboy and posting a lot of incomprehensible drivel on here is ludicrous though. It simply serves to parody everyone else on here who is genuinely sceptical about the CIC, which makes it much harder for anyone to get their point across.
As you point out, the alternatives to the CIC are not likely to be better but I think there are always going to be people who will need a lot of convincing.

Regarding the CIC and reasoned debate, making a coherent case for or against - I've decided to stop posting any more on the matter ("Hurrah!" cries the forum......"Yeehah, ride em' out cowboy, pistol whip the Kibbles man!" cries Yul Brynner...."Get it up ye' ya' fat ginger walloper" cries St. Sid.... etc, etc.) Anyway, I just feel that we're now going round in ever-decreasing circles. My position is pretty simple, can't think of anything else I can personally add to what is an important debate.... I don't think it's perfect, I think there are issues, but I think the people behind it are genuine, motivated, qualified to make it work, and want to make it work. It's new and a bit scary, but not nearly as scary as some sort of Peter Ridsdale, Milan Mandaric, or Angelo Massone types coming out of the woodwork, being pictured wearing a black and white scarf, and selling us down the river. I already see positive signs of change in the club's off-field activities, due to the co-opting onto the board of Richard Atkinson. I reckon it is definitely worth a punt at what amounts to £2.33 a week, less than the price of a bottle of Campbell Kennedy's corporate suite Budweiser. We were stagnating as a club in off-field activities, the current BOD have done their shift, they did a blummin' good job over the piece, but it's time to move on. There's a possibility that given the 'state' of other clubs finances, while they need to cut their cloth to suit - St Mirren could actually move forward in the Scottish football food chain by simply standing still - while others fall down to meet 'our standard'. I think the CIC model, if supported and got behind in numbers, could actually provide us with a platform to show other clubs the way forward, without relying on an Eddie Thompson, Brookes Mileson, or any other number of no doubt well-meaning, but ultimately unsustainable 'sugar daddy models'.
My support of the CIC model is in no small part down to the faith and trust I am prepared to put in the main men behind the scheme. I'm sure they realise this. I'm sure they realise that if all the funding comes off, we all sign our direct debit forms, and we all do our own wee bit to help - we need them to lead from the front and demonstrate that all the Powerpoint presentations, brochures, leaflets, and talk at meetings is translated into a well-run, organised, and sustainable scheme that operates as smoothly as possible for the benefit of the club and the CIC. I suppose if Gordon Scott had taken over, and brought in his own team, I would be in the exact same situation - putting my trust in him and his new BOD to lead from the front too.
That's about it as far as I can see. I cannae' add much more to the debate from my position as a forum ginger whinger.
Get behind it, give it a fair go, do my best to help out where I can, and to see if along the way, we can work together to blow away some of the stifling negativity that is strangling Scottish football - whether that be from bombs and bigotry, Neil Doncaster being a prize fanny, or any number of other issues that would make Victor Meldrew an ideal candidate to run our national game.

I feel the same about Windows PC's... Haven't properly used one for years - except to "fix" things that go wrong with friends'.
I am using a 13" MacBook Pro with Apple Mail (google hosting) and have had no problem receiving their emails. Perhaps you could try logging onto your email from a web browser instead of using the mail client to see if your hosting package is "junking" them. They could be backlisted before they even get sent to your Mac...
Again, I'd be happy to forward you the email from TTH if you like.

Fair enough a match is an event that the club hold.
The sort of events we would be refering to would be say a wedding/or dinner that the club host such as the recent Erskine sportsmans dinner.
In the case of that dinner Erskine were introduced to the opportunity to have the dinner at the club by 10000hours CIC.
Erskine raised an enormous sum of money that night while the club benefited significantly from the income from the bar and one of the CIC partners Kibble provided all of the food and staff for the event
The CIC in this case only made the introduction and made no money directly from the event.
10000hours CIC

No, not true. They conducted an initail 3 week trial which has now finished they are now consulting further with their members about a more permanent move
No.
No one is being forced to do anything.
Is it not perfectly understandable that a group of folk (the consortium) who have put as much blood, sweat and tears into St Mirren over the years would not of their own back decide to put some of the money back into enabling the community purchase of the club, in a way that they chose, whether that is Corporate Membership or some other way?
No. The architect drawings and building warrant are all in place to be started as soon as we can.
This is a forum for answering 10000hours questions, not REA questions.
It is true that this process has taken much longer than we and the consortium had hoped.
10000hours has not been working in a vacuum away from the consortium, both are working together on virtually a day to day basis. There were target dates some have been met some have not along the way, but all parties have been happy to continue and have understood the reasons for any delays. It is a totally transparent process behind the scenes between 10000hours CIC and the Consortium.
However if it was a "deadline" that had passed then the deal would now be "dead" it is very much alive.
Of course there is. If any of the parties involved did not have a significant degree of confidence in both the proposal and the ability of the team and the funding organisations to deliver the proposal then we would have stopped a long time ago. Remember lots of people are putting a lot of hard work and many hours into this for no financial return, for all of these people to be prepared to do this they have got to believe that not only is the deal possible but that it is good for the club and the community.
What is garanteed going through is the sale of the club.
We think the sale of the club to a community footing is both the best way to grow the club (and so improve the team) and to protect the clubs future from the "one man" owner.
So far at least 700 individuals agree with us and so we hope shortly to make this a reality.
We are not there yet but we are close and those who have pledged will be recieving some further info from us later today.
10000hours CIC

I know you've got a forum style of dry 'stick the boot in' humour Sid, and I'm genuinely not having a pop at you, but while I'm supportive of the CIC plan myself, one thing I'm really getting sick of is the increasing danger of multiple-splits into perceived factions. We've got CIC supporters, CIC dissenters, ST holders, pay-at-the-gate punters, SMiSA members, 'The forgotten 48%' shareholders, the community members, the corporate members.....
Fcuk sake - as far as I'm concerned we're all just St Mirren supporters.

Animal there appears to be an element of hypocrisy coming from your posts. Whilst I have my reservations with the CiC I can also see the benefits that it can bring to the club.
At the moment the club is in limbo, it lacks directions and to use a phrase often used for managers. The current Directors have taken the club as far as they can or wish to go. These Directors have decided to cash in on their hardwork/luck/good fortune * (delete as appropriate) and pass the running of the club on to someone else.
After turning down offers from the other Consortium of Alan Sugar/Richard Branson and Tom Hunter they decided it was best to sell to the CiC. (aka the only show in town)
So what are the problems. The Club will remain the club and rather than being run by local Businessmen as a hobby it will be run by a Business which is also a CiC. The club for far too long has been run as a hobby and ego booster for the local businessman.
If the club is now run as a proper business by cashing in on its assets, fans base and local connections then this is to all our benefits.
If the CiC means that someone with mental health problems, learning difficulties or just a kid being able to go to club gets a better life out of the facilities as St Mirren then I am happy to pay my £10 month.
I am not “Blind” and also wonder whats in it for the people involved. But maybe their gain is not financial, maybe its ego, maybe its awards who knows. You stated that RA is a multi-millionaire, so why would he be interested in getting 300 peoples £10/month.
It’s also time to differentiate and get this across to the fans. The Club and the CiC are two completely different entities. The success on one does not guarantee the success of the other.
The question that you should be asking yourself is why it took a non St Mirren/Local/Football person to point out the obvious that the club FAILED to utilise its facilities and FAILED to integrate itself with it local community. The majority of our town support the old firm. If we can change the mind-set of 1% of our local community we can add 1000 fans to our base. Is that an unrealistic target?
This is a HUGE change in direction for the club. We should be cautious and sceptical however we should be using these emotions to ask the questions to ensure that it is a success. It’s easy to be the smart arse at the sides picking holes in everything. The hard bit is putting yourself on that pedestal knowing someone like you wants to knock you off.

The new season ticket early bird price of £250 works out at about £13 a match. It is a fantastic deal. With Danny now having an SPL season under his belt, 11 players released, and new arrivals on the way - it looks like being an exciting season for St Mirren. I'm renewing my ST today - I think it's a good thing to do. I absolutely encourage other fans to think likewise, and buy an ST.
....So, if it's a pish season, Danny does an Avram Grant, we are relegated by Dunfermline with three games to go, and we get knocked out the Scottish Cup by Inverurie Locos - how much of the blame do I share?

Richard has in fact already put in a six figure sum into the CLUB, never mind the CIC.
Still, don't let the facts get in the way of your childish tantrums.
Bring on Yule Brynner, at least when you post as him you bring some humour to your nonsense.

Richard has in fact already put in a six figure sum into the CLUB, never mind the CIC.
Still, don't let the facts get in the way of your childish tantrums.
Bring on Yule Brynner, at least when you post as him you bring some humour to your nonsense.