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spirit of 77

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Posts posted by spirit of 77

  1. I'd like to remind everyone of the forum rules after some recent personal abuse and threats.

    If there is a post you think is inappropriate, use the report button and action will be taken. Please do not reply with abuse and threats.

    There will always be inappropriate posts made that the moderators fail to pick up on, believe it or not we don't get the chance to read every post made on the forum. We need the members to report these posts, when this happens we receive an instant email with a link to the post.

    If you do not agree with a post. please do not reply with abuse or threats.

    Please use the report button.

    Following on from this, i'd just to like to say that I was out of order in the comments I made about Div and the mods last night and fully apologise. But the bottom line is, if there are so many idiots hell bent on winding people up then there is little point in there being a forum.

    The mods cant manage the content because of roving devices and multple alaises so it is now open season for the idiots. I'd say the forum has run it's course and is of little use to anyone because of bile, wind ups and other garbage. if it were mine i'd shut it down now, but that's not my call. What I would like to do now is disable my account, if the mods could advise how that is done or do it for me then 'd appreciate that

    Dickson & gav neednt worry, I wouldnt give you the satisfaction of some corrective therapy. you got under my skin with your pish but i should have risen above it. all that is left is for me to say bye to my friends and family on here, i'll reserve my football discussions for match day and confine them to people i like

  2. The pupils in non catholic schools in Renfrewshire will be needing a Football Team to support and for their Parents to take them.

    ST MIRREN NEED A PLAN OF ACTION.

    WE SHOULDNT MISS THIS OPPORTUNITY.

    ANY IDEAS ?

    Keep religion out of football, that's the best one you'll see.

    We should offer a free ST for the remainder of the season to anyone who lets us cut up a season they already hold for any other Scottish team

  3. If RFC are liquidated St Mirren could drop further down this year's SPL, if all results involving RFC are awarded 3-0 to their opponents as one of the teams whose points total includes taking 4 points out of a possible 6 we would be awarded 2 more points than we already have bt teams who have been humped twice by RFC this season would gain 6 points on top of their current totals sad.png

    I think the 3-0 scenario only affects games surrendered (there will be no surrender-HA) as in someone doesnt show up for a tie.

    all other results would be null and void, so we would lose 4 points and all those that were beat would stay on the same tally as they are now

  4. It means they have ten days to declare administration or work out a deal with the creditors to avoid it. When they do go into administration it is an immediate ten point deduction.

    ]#

    Are you sure? I thought they had 10 days to appoint an administrator or the court would appoint one for them

    There is only one creditor with any preferred status, a Mr Whyte, the rest, including HMRC will get only what is left after he has settled with himself-i'm sure he wont be hard to deal with.

  5. It doesn't actually matter what REA is buddiecool - it isn't him that is buying the major shareholding in the club. It is the fans. And the new proposal is even better than the last one as it is a straight shoot one member one vote irrespective of how many shares you own - and the use of the word "own" is pretty important too.

    This is now a straight question........do you want the fans to control the club or do you want a fat cat stranger who doesn't care about St Mirren to own it through raising debt against the asset and paying the debt off using funds directly from the clubs income?

    Any spurious doubt has been removed. This is all about whether the supporters want to take control of the club or not. We have the funds to do it and a BoD keen to make it happen. It should be the easiest decision we ever make.

    what asset, the club has few assets and none of them have any value as security, no one wouldlend as the club's income is insufficient to cover the paymrnents. Please make valid points and avoid the scaremongering

  6. You are right, we will know soon enough. I think Wednesday will be quite an eye opener as to the reasons/people who stopped the final funding from being received.

    Out of interest, I'd like to know the site stats for how many unique visitors and forums stats for contributors when the CiC recruitment process was in full swing. You're right, there have been very few contributors here over the last couple months and this may be an indicator of ongoing interest. However, was there really that more a few months ago when 800 people signed up? Like I said, I'd be interested to see as it may be an acid test.

    To add to speculation re how to raise more finance or repay more, the other way that reborn and lochwinnoch didn't mention would be to get more people to sign up. This might be a tough one to pull off, but also, if the new proposal is improved and maybe more attractive then maybe the 800 who have signed up might increase... That might be a proposal?!

    it's really not that important that we learn who pulled the plug, or indeed why. It was done by someone who had both the responsibility to account for the use of the funds and the clout to make their actions stick, no prizes for guessing that it was a Mr S of holyrood.

    i think a change of proposal might generate a few more potential stakeholders, but these will be numbered in the dozens rather than the hndreds needed to keep the monthly fee down to current levels

    a more radical proposal may well be forthcoming

  7. You are full of the brown stuff 77 and always will be ,,,,face to face? ...Big brother Div ...I think I'm being bullied,

    your clearly hurting worse than i thought. You need to work on your self esteem.

    I suppose the difference between us is that I dont post anything on here that i need to back away from, whereas you near enough shit yerself when attention was drawn to your assertions on potential bidders for the club and performed a truly amazing backflip in the process. the brown stuff you speak of was flying around like a shitty blizzard.

    Now your pursuing a vendetta against me? I'll repeat, it was you who made an arse of yerself, all i did was point out that everyone witnessed your shitbaggery.

    It's not my fault that your CIC is gone, time to work out your issues I think

  8. lol cheers Sid and Div....I will no longer call anyone any names and when I'm called a looney, tit or fanny again I hope I can come crying to you like 77 for my big brother to stop the bullyingbiggrin.png

    And cheers for the red dot Sid. lol

    2 consecutive posts having a dig, you must be hurting badly. Such classic grudge behaviour suggests that you and the laughably odious jimdickloyal could be one and the same.

    And my reporting of a certain poster for certain violent language was a tongue in cheek way of pointing out that a lot of people use this forum to bandy about insults that they would never dare follow up face to face (ring any bells?)

    You dont have to take it so seriously, I know I certainly havent.

  9. The point about grant or loan for the denied 700K is a good one. If the money was a loan then does that open up the possibility of the consortium taking the 1.3 million and then accepting the 700K over the course of the 5 years or so? Could the other loan monies be structured so that the 700 K is paid at a greater pace.

    I can't remember the exact figures, but was it not around 800K grants and the rest being loans. It does seem very possible that the 700K missing is a loan. I realise it means the consortium don't get their money up front, but it's not a case of definitely not getting it and the development of the model could realise funds earlier. Heck, it might even mean some mature voting and realism in order to gain long term prosperity. Not so long ago it was a case of "ach, you'll never get the ground sold...a new training complex is even less likely" or "I've been told from a reliable source it'll only have two stands", who's to say "CIC's are pish, they do nothing for the club" won't be just as lacking in truth.

    I am pretty sure that the money that was given in grants could only be drawn down if the CIC actually secured all the other funding. All funding had to be confirmed before any could be released. The 700k was witheld so the rest of the money will also be witheld.

    I think that would also affect the status of the CIC since it's aims would expand to cover wedging in the consortium.

  10. There are alot of better posters on here than me ....Div,,,Tsu...Poz...Somner and Scott.......But you are a wank 77 and everyone knows it.biggrin.png

    I dont know what is choking me more, your smokescreen or the constant stream of bullshit you've been posting.

    And there's no need to be so bitter, it was you who made yourself look like a tit, I only highlighted your ignorance.

    To paraphrase a better poster than you, hope this skelps.

  11. Wake up Scott!....I have already said no to your question of would Ken McGeoch do this............It's not him I'm talking about !

    What an amazing statement, you spend days, if not weeks, posting inferences and implying that the proposed bid was going to saddle the club with debt and then try to throw out a smoke screen the moment anyone calls you out on the detail.

    Proof positive of how many loonies have been virtually liberated from their cells by the internet.

  12. I agree with this, I wouldn't want any debt secured against the club.

    Why are so many people getting excited about a potential bidder securing debt against the club? In order to secure debt from any reputable and regulated lender the club would either have to have a turnover that makes repayment a reasonable proposition or it would have to have assets that are equal to a significant percentage of the sum loaned. Saint Mirren Football Club has neither and the securing of debt against any asset or cash stream would be near on impossible to acheive.

  13. With the current financial situation, do you think any commercial lender will loan that type of money without some type of surety. The current situaution with other SPL clubs makes it at least a medium risk loan, no matter how well the club is currently run. The only other option would be someone with sufficient money to pay it out of their own pocket which would substantially increase the amount that had to be paid due to taxes etc.

    my point is that the club has no assets of any worth that can be taken as surety, equity, collateral or any other term you want to use. The ground mught have a book value in the assets list of the club, but in reality no buyer would offer more than a few thousand if it were up for sale

  14. Can you expand on what you mean by that? If St.Mirren are operating on a break even basis and the CIC do manage to purchase 52% of the shares, then that surely would allow them to use that as collateral. As I keep saying, I was late into this discussion and it may be that whoever has the remaining 48% might be able to operate some kind of embargo. The CIC might not want to use the stadium to borrow but surely it has a cash value?

    I was speaking in referrence to some bugger's point about McG's bid being bankrolled by lenders who want a charge on the stadium as collateral

    the point is, the stadium only has a value as a stadium if someone wants to buy one right where it is. if they want the land it is worth less than the demolition and clearance costs, if they want the scrap value of the structure then that is worth even less, so no sensible lenderwould proffer funds against this asset. My point bein that any other bidder would have an alternative funding plan in place

  15. The people who lend the money to the buyers will want their money back plus interest. Normally after the sale, the new owners would take out a long term loan against the club's assets (in our case the stadium) in order to pay back the initial short term loan, the club would then be responsible for paying back the longer term loan.

    But the stadium has no cash value, so any other bid, theoretical or otherwise, cannot be considering it as equity

  16. One of the most sensible posts in a while! The CiC has its flaws an the folks piloting it have made mistakes, of this there is no doubt. However, the business model remains the most secure and transparent and robust. It'd be a shame to see our club, the first to try it, be ultimately left behind because of some technicalities whilst others, who jumped on the bandwagon late, charge ahead and secure the funding, support, publicity needed to be a success. That would be sad.

    If the cic dont secure the funding it wont be on a technicality, it wil be because of the inflated asking price and the funding bodies taking a dim view of the cic agreeing to any old price becuase it isnt their own money at risk. It's like asking for a 200k mortgage on a house valued at 90k, the sums just dont add up.

    Anyway, was it not made known that the McGeoch bid involves turning the club over to some form of community ownership in a couple of years? If so, no need to panic.

  17. I totally hear what you're saying and have to agree on all of it... However, what use is a statement that says:

    "there is nothing we can say at present, we can't disclose what the hold up is as it might jeopardise our chances of ever getting the go ahead."

    I reckon, without factual basis, as some others have said, it is because one of the funders won't agree for one reason or another, perhaps because of the asking price, perhaps because of another reason or two. If this is the case then there may well be negotiations that are ongoing. To disclose this might put the whole process on on the rocks. GIven the effort that REA and others have put into this, I don't believe they have just forgotten to put the word out or that they don't want to... It must be more complicated than that.

    The bottom line is that the people who are ultimately expected to foot the bill are not being kept up to speed on events. You cant argue that this is the right position

    This is meant to be about collective community involvement in the decision making processes of a CIC that aims to control a football club with a potential stakeholder number in the tens of thousands. It needs to up its game in terms of communications, which seemed to be working at least in a sporadic fashion up to the point where sufficient direct debit forms were signed and returned.

  18. I'd hazard a guess that the next time we hear anything formal will be at the AGM. Whether we get any real answers remains to be seen.... will the usual "confidentiality clause" card will be played by all concerned?

    At last years meeting I asked REA when exactly were things due to start.....he said January....I did reply at the time "which year?"....this was during my extremely cynical phase....

    From what I have heard on the grapevine a significant part of the funding has not been secured and this is obviously a major hurdle to overcome. REA has put a great deal of effort into promoting this concept and after initial personal doubts I had about the idea and the people behind it I did feel that this was the best way forward for St Mirren FC.

    At the last public meeting when GLS turned up to demonstrate his support for the CiC I felt that we must be on the right track, but at the end of the day if the CiC cannot secure the funding through the methods they tried, then what are the alternatives?

    It's a real shame things have stalled over recent months...however the communication has been poor from day 1. There must be loads of people who pledged support wondering WTF is actually happening. Surely an email on a monthly basis to those who left such contact details would have been easy to do.

    Could the reasons behind the lack of funding be due to political reasons locally or nationally?

    What ever happened to Yul of the Magnificent 7? Does he/she have any info to share on this prior to the AGM?

    On a personal front I'd still support a CiC led model rather than a small group of individuals who could take St Mirren down the route of the vast majority of football clubs in the UK that are in debt.

    edited to add:

    Yes I know that the CiC model would have "debt", but at least we would understand the impact and payback required to get back into the black (and white)......

    There's no doubt that the CiC could work. But the funders are having the same issue as a number of people. The asking price for a mere 52% shareholding is far too high.

    I have heard it suggested, but admittedly not supported with fact,that the consortium could recoup their entire investment (remember much of it was inherited) for an asking price of around £1.2 million and that would still provide a reward for the effort they put in. I dont begrudge them that as long as their demands are realistic and they dont stifle the future prospects

    I'm afraid the options are the lowering of the asking price, which could attract counter bids, or the status quo.

    It seems the club could well prosper under the current arrangements if we continue with the current good financial management (if indeed the board are sticking to that) and the further development of youth prospects.

  19. If you look back it was one of a few iniatitives that 10000 hours were bigging themselves up about as bringing extra revenue streams to the club. As we we now know quite the opposite would be true as a hefty financial outlay would be required with an ever decreasing prospect of payback. There plans as they stand (Or wherever they are) will cost the club.

    Working in the renewables industry, this was actually one of the proposals from the CIC that gave me some hope that it really was a serious venture and I am disappointed that it has not been carried forward. It could have been set up as a joint venture where SMFC contribute only land and an agreement to take some of the power at a reduced cost, the rest of the installation cost being covered by the JV partner who would take the lion's share of the profit. It would not take 10000 hours to be responsible for the development or any outlay and there are probably oinstallation grants and cheap loans to be taken advantage of, wee dick could have used his extensive network of business contacts (god, or Mr ed, for example) to do it on behalf of SMFC. A great idea with no will to carry it forward other than for free publicity to show what a great guy he is.

    As sid's mate once said "ever get the feeling you've been cheated? "

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