David Mc

What everyone seems to be forgetting in this whole story is the power the customers have. Football fans have made their clubs sit up and take notice and I wouldn't be surprised if Sky have been closely watching what's going on, but remember there are alternatives to Sky tv and the Murdoch press. It might be the same programmes that are received via Virgin or BT but Sky receive less money than they do from their direct customers due to bulk discounts. Do Sky really want to start driving their customers to their competitors ?

Are you suggesting we should go the way of oldco and buy players we can't really afford and pay them wages we can't really afford ?
Other clubs may be looking at investing in the playing side but is that because they have released players from last season to free up wages ?, finished higher up the league than expected and received a larger payout from last season ? Qualified for Europe and will get a bonus from that ?
For all 'well have qualified for the champions league they announced at the end of the season that McCall's budget would be cut.
I'm fairly confident that 10000hours members will say no to newco but don't you think they deserve to know the entire facts of what that vote could mean and that the board and 10000hours would be morally wrong to ask for a vote without disclosing all the information available. This is how the CiC will work, decisions will have to be made after weighing them against the possible consequences/results.

By not answering the question of what you how you are going to mobilise the '99% of the support SCREAMING!!!! for SMFC to make a statement that they will vote no' you clearly share the sentiment with says it all. You have no real intention. It's a real pity as you are the person most on here and a cool clear headed debate would be very valuable.

Put far better than I could Drew.

Got it David, apologies for pushing and a pint on me in the new season.

The alternative is what, exactly?
There is no point on pissing on the initiative unless you have a viable and preferable alternative to offer.
As you might recall from my earlier posts on the CiC, I've always been pretty sceptical about this, and was late in committing. I remain sceptical in many respects, but I'm willing to take a punt. Life consists of taking many punts, in my weary experience, as there are few absolutes or certainties (death and taxes, by all accounts, unless you're Jimmy Carr and Gary Barlow , of course....).
I'm no 10000Hours cheerleader, but I can't see any other options on the table just now. Of course, I could simply sit by and snipe from the sidelines, but I support radical change in the game in Scotland, and sniping from the sidelines doesn't strike me as the most constructive way in which to influence that change (however limited such influence might be). I wouldn't consider myself as naive, either. Everyone has an agenda, and personal motivation for pursuing a course of action, or making a decision. So I'll be maintaining my (constructively) critical stance.
*edit - typos*

Hope so. I really don't know one way or another. What I do feel is that right now is a great time to garner publicity to get even more people on board before it goes through.

The conditions mentioned were indeed mentioned at the meeting on 7th June and are mentioned on page three of the powerpoint presentation which you can download here;
http://www.10000hour...ntation0706.pdf
There is no conspiracy here, nothing is being hidden. The facts are that we (10000hours) are buying a business, and the people lending us a big chunk of that money to help us buy that business want to understand that the business is sustainable and isn't going to collapse in a heap in two months time.
At the moment nobody knows what is going to happen to the SPL revenues next season.
Sky have a clause they can invoke once Rangers are out of the league which allows them, if they so wish, to exit the contract. That is a fact and whilst it seems unlikely it still COULD happen.
IF that scenario came to pass then perhaps the fans would simply rally round and start pledging money to help keep the club afloat. Would they really be in a position to do that AND continue their 10000Hours subscriptions and gate money all at the same time ? I would suspect not.
This is of course a doomsday scenario but it would be foolish in the extreme not to at least consider the implications of what could come to pass.
I can't see any problem in delaying things for 2-3 weeks more so that we can understand exactly the lie of the land.
Again, it's simple common sense and the same prudent approach that the current board have used to guide the club successfully through the last 20 years.

And the St Mirren swing-on-meter once again swings wildly from one extreme to the other!
Look read the info for what it is. The deal is still on and 10000hours members will be consulted on the Newco vote. Thats what the majority of members wanted and its being delivered. Now hopefully the SMFC board and 10000hours will provide the arguments for and against so members can make a rational decision based on the facts.
To be completely honest I'm delighted that 10000hours will not be forced to buy the club at what is the worst possible moment. Lets step back and see how it plays out instead of all this ranting wild eyed speculation

The problem we (10000hours) have is that we are buying a business at the end of the day. A business that takes over 60% of it's revenues from commercial SPL TV and Sponsorship deals.
10000Hours need some assurances about the future of these deals before we, or our funder, can commit to the deal.
The selling consortium can't currently guarantee these deals will still be in place (nobody currently can) and they are similarly concerned about our ability as a fledgling organisation to deal with the nightmare scenario of those deals disappearing or being drastically reduced almost overnight.
So it is prudent and sensible for both parties to wait until there is more clarity on exactly what the position is before proceeding on either side..
The size of the bid made is what we can afford to pay back and we have managed to monetise the additional £4k per month in direct debits we have received from individuals in order to make the up front bid as attractive as we possibly can.
Be in absolutely no doubt, our deal is NOT dependent on NewCo being in the SPL, but our deal is very much dependent on St.Mirren FC being able to trade in the SPL as a going concern. The TV and sponsorship money the club takes from the SPL is a huge part of the clubs turnover whether you or I like it or not.
If 60% of the clubs income was to disappear overnight, with a playing squad of 23 or so first team players all contracted to be paid this season based on that revenue being there then the club would be in serious trouble.
The board want to gather the fans opinion on the NewCo vote but they also want to make absolutely sure that the fans are given all the necessary information to allow them to make an informed decision rather than a knee jerk one.
None of this is negative in any way, it's just plain common sense.

Speculating that the announcement will be a further extension. The PDE carried a report that quoted Gordon Scott saying that the offer may fall a "couple of hundred thousand pounds short" but that he felt it would be worth it. I can imagine a reluctance to accept less than they think is fair but it would be stupid to sink the bid at the point where it seems to be at a peak in terms of momentum.

I don't know how the bid's going to go tomorrow and I'm keeping my fingers crossed we can pull a rabbit out the hat, but I just wanted to say well done to everyone who has signed up - over £11,000 a month.
I'm astounded by the response in the last few weeks.

You all make me proud to be a Buddie xx

I also asked it another way earlier in the thread. Div/Richard, this is utterly crucial in getting people on board, the business model has to be clear and robust.

There is an issue with a clause known as "the rights of the minority"... Which is basically that, a conflict of interest issue. However, to push the deal over the line I wouldn't be surprised if there was a way of navigating such issues.
The real solution though is for individuals, community groups and companies to sign up and encourage others to do so. That way the success is guaranteed! We have done so well and come so far, it would be horrendous to see it fall down now.
Yes there are questions, no it's not perfect, yes a lot will need to be ironed out, no the hard work isn't over when the deal goes through - the hard work will begin then - but if we get enough sign ups then fan ownership and governance can be a reality for St Mirren, securing the future of our club when others are going to the wall.
This is an exciting time for our club and for us as fans! Let's not miss out on being part of making it a reality!

I say this without malice. It's getting to the stage that the consortium will have to accept the offer from the CIC in some shape or form. The alternative is that there will be close to a 1,000 supporters feeling as if they've done their bit and been let down by the consortium. The CIC have the upperhand now for that reason IMO.

Have to be honest, with the momentum the bid has built up if the selling consortium were to reject the bid they could have a seriously unhappy fanbase on its hands.
Its easy for me to say as I am not trying to sell my shares (and fair play to the consortium as they have been extremely patient so far) but if the consortium really want to sell to the right bid and get the right people involved, surely it doesnt get any better than the fans taking over the club.
I would be extremely disapointed in the consortium if the bid doesnt go through at this stage, this may be unfair but i think a lot of people that have bought into this will feel the same

ok, That pretty much answers the question I just asked on the "Ask 10000hrs" thread.
Can we not have updated membership numbers or monetary amounts from the 87 club and 1877 club? This was very encouraging for the individual membership and the sign up rate will be slower and easier to handle and would at least give us fans some confidence that things are progressing before Thursday.

Sorry Marrez, missed this earlier.
The £25k is a lot of money but it depends on who your clients are and how you see it impressing them.
Would your clients be impressed by the fact that you were a non-exec director of an SPL club? Would they be interested in accompanying you to a match and being your guest in the directors box with all the free food and drink that comes with that? Would they be the kind of person who would be impressed at you showing them around the stadium before sitting down for a coffee in the lounge or gathering for a meeting in the club boardroom? Do you offer a product or service where the club becomes a client, or where 10000hours becomes a client?
If so then paying out £25k to get 1,877 shares - which you could eventually sell - supposedly valued at £13.10 per share (or £24,588) might seem like good business and better value for money than the £3k level.

Well done Div, ktf and everyone who worked their balls off to get the support.
I have mixed feelings about the whole thing. However I must say well done to the people who worked so hard to get people like me to sign up.
Without people like that this would have fell on its ar*e.
We now have a dream.

Even got my daughter to sign up !

I think there is always going to be concern about members leaving the CIC, either because of changes in circumstance, or perhaps because they maybe vote against a key issue but the other members carry it and they take the huff !
The £9.5k per month that has currently been pledged comes from 803 individual people, I still think that many more will join up after the deal is done once they see that the CIC really does own the club and the members really do get consulted on key decisions.
With 3,000 season ticket holders alone, I'd hope we could end up with a couple of thousand members in the fullness of time.
That would mean we could pay off the borrowing a lot quicker than is currently estimated, saving us a lot of money and greatly reducing the risk of financial difficulties through member drop outs.
Also imagine the scenario where we had say 2000 members each paying in £10 per month and the debt was cleared. The members would have £20k per month coming in to the organisation and would be free to spend it on whatever they wished. Think of the good that could do the football club !
Of course that is a long way off, and there is also the possibility that the members might decide to lower the subs once the debt was paid off.

I mentioned it to all ten of my followers on Facebook. My wife and Mum wrote back to say they weren't interested. My two sons said they would sign up if I give them more pocket money. My boss told me I was supposed to be working. And the other five haven't responded so I'm guessing they are still considering it???

the 87club and 1877 is developing all the time. For example we just had another 87 club in the last hour so we are now 3k better off than Friday. It obviously takes a bit of a chat and discussion for folk to sign up to 87 and 1877 but on Monday we will assess the situation and crack on and keep everyone fully informed. Bottom line just now is the more pledges we get in all categories the better for bringing this deal to a conclusion next week.

Going to be discussed on Sportsound which starts in the next few minutes

Momentum seems to be the key word. I've spoken to many people who were holding off on signing up until they were more convinced that it would all actually happen - which is perfectly understandable. As momentum was gained it seems that a few more people took the plunge, which lead to others, then others...
Can I add my virtual back-slap to Div too? Although I'm sure he's a web designer on his granny's side... The boy did good. Heh, heh.