David Mc

I won't mention today, I'll be too busy studying then I'll head through to Alloa for the weekend. Indeed, this next week or so is the worst time possible for me to concentrate on the CIC. I am definitely looking to stand for election though.

They trust the fans/owners enough to give them overriding control of the whole thing! If you don't like the way it has been set up but like the general idea then there is nothing stopping you joining up and voting to change it all. Make it however you want.

DD page bookmarked - I'll be completing it tomorrow.

I will be there and will also be covering the meeting live online for those that cannot.
Have a call in ten mins with the 10000Hours team to discuss connectivity tonight and that will determine whether we are using Twitter or something else but will publish all the details this afternoon.

As far as I am aware there is only one offer on the table that delivers any sort of fan ownership of the club.
If another group came out today and said they were launching a fan led takeover of the club I'd be very interested in hearing their plans and I would back them to the hilt through the website as much as I could.
The 10000Hours process has been far from perfect up to this stage, I don't think anyone would disagree but we are where we are and in my opinion we (the fans) should be able to work out all of the finer operational detail once the deal is done.
That is where I stand.
I don't want to be on any boards, I don't want to make any money, I just want to go along and watch the football and know that the club is owned by the people who care about it the most.

That's my feeling as well. What we potentially start out with with what 10000hrs are putting forward isn't necessarily the way it will remain. That will be up to the punters. The way it should be. We, collectively, will have a big influence over everything. It's never going to be perfect because of the way the club is being sold here, but it's something that can, and will, be shaped in time to suit what we all want. Evolution.

Correct.
You have been able to pledge your £10/month right from the start! Hardly the last to be involved. There is plenty information for the fans to make an informed decision, and many have (both for and against the CIC). Some fans just seem to want more and more and more. And then when they are given more they just want more. Once the buyout is complete you will be able to be as involved as you want, whether that is standing for a place on the board or quietly voting by email whenever necessary. Be as involved as you want to be.
The positions of power will be evenly spread amongst the members via the OMOV system. If someone on the board appears to be abusing their position and pushing things through that isn't the will of the members then it only takes a small amount of members to quickly get that sorted out with an EGM. If you don't like any of the major decisions being made, speak up and get them changed. This is the only bid where you actually do have a voice that will be heard.

The main point surely is it is not going out of SMFC either ?
Put yourself for a second into the shoes of a "private bidder".
Why would you buy St.Mirren if you had no emotional attachment to the club. How are you going to get your money back on the purchase ?
Bringing in players to sell them on would be one way.
Paying yourself a handsome salary for doing nothing would be one way.
Using your other businesses or other connections to leak money out of the club might be one way.
Selling club assets and paying yourself a mighty dividend might be one way.
If you can think of a positive way how a private consortium might get their money back out of a £1.5m cash purchase of St.Mirren Football Club without harming the football club then I'd love to hear it.
The fact is that the biggest single investment here is going to be £25k and for that those investors will have a tangible asset they can sell again in a few years if they wish in the shape of their 1877 shares.
Spreading the risk through the shoulders of a few hundred St.Mirren fans all making small monthly subscriptions is a low risk strategy given that those same individuals are the ones with the most to lose if the club should go under.
This isn't scaremongering, it's simple common sense.

This is pretty much how I see it now.
The current 10000Hours proposal is unlikley to tick every box that every supporter might want ticked, but I'm not hearing about any other preferable and, importantly, viable alternative.
Sometimes we have to accept that what is on offer is pretty much as good as it gets.
Like just about everything else in life, it seems we might have to take a bit of a punt on this. There are no guarantees, but, it seems to me, there are a few important safeguards in place.
I can't make it along ot the meeting on Thursday due to other commitments, but I hope that a few searching questions will be asked. We now have a decision to make as individuals and supporters of our club. Personally, I don't feel that I have a great deal to lose from signing up for a tenner a month (all I'm in a position to commit to just now). I'm not 100% as to whether I'll be going ahead, but I'm as likely to now as I ever have been.

Ah! At last, the Sid we know and love.
This is a great post and bang on the money. I still believe that the community/one town stuff can be achieved (partly because it probably has to be to appease the social funders, partly because there will hopefully be enough of us like-minded buds on board to put the pressure on to make it happen) but even if it isn't just now, that doesn't stop it being a great opportunity to secure the future of the club an make sure it is in safe hands for our kiddos.

Sid, of course the fans will service the debt with their £10/month. This is why it is a fans buyout. In return we will get to decide the major decisions within the club. How can the guys in it for commercial reasons effectively run the club however they want if it is OMOV. The fans will vote against anything they don't like. We aren't simply handing the club over to a bunch of unknown people; we are buying the controlling interest for ourselves. We just need 10000hrs to be the vehicle for that to happen.
The fact that RA and 10000hrs have been around now for a couple of years show that they didn't come to make a quick buck. Stewart Gilmour and the board have had ample time to scrutinise them and work alongside them and still firmly believe that this is the best option for St Mirren to prosper. This BoD haven't done much wrong by us in the past. Why would they start now?

My interpretation of this is that the relevance of completing and signing a direct debit has changed. By offering the commitment you are now agreeing to the CIC to be set up as is. The obvious issue being there is no information actually explaining what it is, how it will owrk and what impact it is going to have on the club. All we have is headline values relating to fan empowerment, transparency, etc.
We are now handing the power to 10000 Hours interim BoD to carry out the transaction to buy the consortiums shareholding. By doing this we appear to be committing ourselves to around 10 years of debt without fully understanding what we are getting into or the risk to the club.
Make sure that you are entirely comfortable about the deicision you are making for the future of the club and also on behalf of not just yourself, but other fans and future generations of fans. This isn't just a tenner-a-month to be gambled just because you can afford it...and see if you like it or not just to cancel it later.
We must be fully committed to this from day one and moving forward or the club is put at risk. Once the transaction takes place and the debt kicks in - the levels of monthly payments MUST be maintained.
My view is that this is now being pushed through without proper due dilligence by the fans who will be left paying the monthly payments, and who will have the most to lose - our club, and may end up with the least influence on the running of the club of all the group involved - although I think the community members are completely out on their arses now.
I will wait until we have propoerly documented information available to review and discuss, and the outcome of the meeting. I will also give SMiSA's view significant consideration. Hopefully all will be well and all the concerns will be put to bed. However, the lack of information at this crucial stage is disappointing.

The draft articles state that the rules for calling a members meeting would be as per the Companies Act 2006, which states that 5% of members would be required to force a meeting. So assuming we will have around 1000 members, you'd need to garner support of around 50 or so. I think the same percentage is required for a resolution to be circulated for an AGM. I would imagine if its an issue that the members are genuinely concerned about, it shouldn't be too difficult to get 50 members together.

No one from the Cic team has approached our supporters club at any time to explain the format regarding supporters owning the club.I would have thought groups like ours would be the first to be targeted and we could have spread the gospel on this wonderful venture.Instead it has been promoted on this website with people who would not get a seat at the back of the class never mind on a board of directors.I am willing to place my trust in both Tony and Gordon and would welcome Bryan McAusland to stay on and lead our club forward.As for fans as directors only a Neil Kennedy or Tam McGarry type would suit me.To qualify you must have visited Brechin,Dingwall,Peterhead midweek in winter.

The club will be sold to either the co-op thingy or a private bidder and there's slim to zero chance of the private bidder being a Saints fan or having fan involvement like the co-op thingy.
The co-op is still very much on and is far more likely to last the distance now GLS is on board. I find it astonishing that some people would prefer to roll the dice with a private bidder than back the co-op, it's got to be the best option on the table.

I agree wholeheartedly. What would also be very necessary and helpful is a simple document (online and hardcopy) which shows the anticipated cashflow in each of the years until the CIC clears the loan debt. Let's have everything in simple terms we can all understand. I can't really believe that it has taken till this late in the stage to ask the social funders if they are okay to go public.
Communication overall is very poor and given the model of the involvement of so many fan 'investors' on an ongoing basis it's fundamental that is done well IMO. A quick look here shows the fairly random is hindering the proposal and there's not much time to sort it out. One-to-one chats or occasional meetings don't work for a sizeable number of fans I would think. It seems it is no one's job to make sure those with an interest out there are fully informed. It's almost a cliche that you need to provide the right information, at the right time to people by their preferred method of communication. But it's what successful organisations do.
I am largely for a CIC. But I must admit it's hard to flow all the changes that have taken place if there is isn't a single definitive, easy to understand document `with cashflow projections, names of social funders and the decision making processes outlined (an organisational chart?) to dissect by this time. How can anyone commit with confidence without this? Not carping just requesting a more coherent approach to make a decision with as much evidence as I can.

I agree wholeheartedly. What would also be very necessary and helpful is a simple document (online and hardcopy) which shows the anticipated cashflow in each of the years until the CIC clears the loan debt. Let's have everything in simple terms we can all understand. I can't really believe that it has taken till this late in the stage to ask the social funders if they are okay to go public.
Communication overall is very poor and given the model of the involvement of so many fan 'investors' on an ongoing basis it's fundamental that is done well IMO. A quick look here shows the fairly random is hindering the proposal and there's not much time to sort it out. One-to-one chats or occasional meetings don't work for a sizeable number of fans I would think. It seems it is no one's job to make sure those with an interest out there are fully informed. It's almost a cliche that you need to provide the right information, at the right time to people by their preferred method of communication. But it's what successful organisations do.
I am largely for a CIC. But I must admit it's hard to flow all the changes that have taken place if there is isn't a single definitive, easy to understand document `with cashflow projections, names of social funders and the decision making processes outlined (an organisational chart?) to dissect by this time. How can anyone commit with confidence without this? Not carping just requesting a more coherent approach to make a decision with as much evidence as I can.

Where is the shift from OMOV?
The 'business investors' are no more likely to secure or entitled to a place on the club board than anyone else. They don't have a block vote. They can put themselves forward, but if they don't receive suffiicient support, they won't secure a seat. Seems quite straightforward to me.

best season for years ,whether its better squad ,bigger budget ,lower budget ,diminished squad ,who gives a toss ,we have been better overall ,best finish ,highest league position,more clean sheets ,,well done danny, tommy and all the backroom staff from coaches to tea ladies to girls in the office ,looking forward to next season with optomism,not very often us st mirren fans have that feeling ,go on give it laldy

9 league goals for ICT this season. Young enough to improve at 25. Fit all season. Tall strong player with a bit of pace. More than a touch of the Luther Blissett's about him though. Could be a very good signing for us.

I wonder what business we can do right now with the increasing likelihood of R*ng*rs and the terms of the TV deal being reduced? Have we any clue what our budget might be next season?

Since you don't know yet how it wil be spent then it might never be meaningful cash then. What a load of old style dried up white dog keech your argument is.
Unlike most of Danny's signings this season and some of those he scrambled together the season before will have overperformed relative to their salaries. Sampson, McGregor, McAusland, Tesselaar, McGowan, Hasselbaink and Thompson have all been great signings. Only Teale and Mooy have failed to live up to their billing. So the chances he will hit the mark again.

Hamilton fan posted we were after Mensing. Silly season starting already.
Anyway IMO we need a strong central midfielder, a decent striker and a right back in. I know we won't bring in a right back, but I am at loss as to why we would resign both Barron (crocked frequently) and DVZ (very suspect in defence). Sensible thing to do would have been to bring in a dependable right back who can defend and then offer DVZ a one year deal. Hopefully Barron will be healthy for the season, but it's an unnecessary gamble I believe. Nothing against Barron as he's solid defender though I see no reason to have players in the squad who are typically out for long periods. It's like paying them double wages for playing time.

To be fair I don't think business is a one size fits all.
Bigger businesses need processes to support their procurement model (even though in my own experience tendering is rife with brown envelopes and corruption).
Smaller businesses should always competitively price but there is always a lot of weight based on trust and trust more often than not comes through people you know either directly or through indirect referrals or recommendations from people you know,
Networking is a wanky term but in my own business I rely heavily on clients referring on others and it (to date) has worked well.

Somner9 is asking questions, and arichard is attempting to answer them. I don't see what the problem is here ?
A couple of pages back people were moaning because Richard wasn't answering questions on here and now we have people moaning because he is !
Some people in here could start a fight in an empty room !