Big Fras

I had to do it for him. He's got e-mail, but a complicated banking set-up I was waiting on his text to come through and instruct me to go ahead and do it for him. Didn't come through until 10pm (he'd been out for a meal), with the words "Don't forget to sign me up. Can't see Tony and not be signed up !" ( I think those two will be knocking around the same old folk's ward in 40 years time - friendship goes back to c.1970 !!) In the meantime, he raised the point that if Celtic or Rangers went down this CiC route, with the sizes & geographical spread of their support & facilities, then "They wouldn't be in the mess they are in now.......... It must be too clever for them" Hopefully some more good news on Billy in the next week or so.

Cup Final Captain Billy Abercromby has just signed up.

Why thank you Mr.Vicious. That nice man Tony Evans at The Times (Rupert's paper not the OF-fixated fish supper wrapper) has just re-tweeted info on 10,000Hours to 46,000+ of his Twitter followers. Don't know if that'll help, but maybe Rupert will come and buy us, and get James to run it. What could go wrong ?

The club is going to be sold, one way or the other. No solution is perfect, but for me the pros outweigh the cons regarding the CiC. I don't know the guy personally, but I simply cannot see GLS being prepared to steer SMFC into the rocks. There is also a degree of transparency about what would be going on at the club under a CiC deal. Not totally open as some would like to have in their utopia, but certainly a move in the right direction. Life's too short - give it a go. If it goes t*ts up, it appears that there are certain securities over the club that wouldn't exist through a traditional takeover. Clincher - Fitzy becomes Vice-President..........but only on the proviso that the tache comes back. It gives him the air of El Presidente of a Central American State, or as an aide of Castro......

Let me guess who......

The SPL's much vaunted "new & stringent" measures for the fit & proper test cannae be up to much !

" Whatever you say you pay your money you take your choice "

"Gilmour also admitted that ongoing uncertainty over the sale has held the club back in recent years. "We've moved on under Danny [Lennon, manager] on the field, but off the field the club hasn't moved on commercially. We've stagnated. That criticism sits with the board" Is RA not the Commercial Director ?

And they are fairly damning. One thing: RA's efforts have clearly shown that there is an appetite for local businesses/community groups to get involvd in funding SMFC (albeit via the CiC), not to mention supporter involvement. I think that any prospective buyer who ignores this is mad. RE: SG and his previous claims. Why not stipulate that any firm buying SMFC cannot hock the asking price against the actual club, Not that hard to do, and I'm sure he is a man of his word, given the KMG tarring & feathering.

Gary, Bud the Baker didn't actually say anything about Richard / CiC. I like the ideas of fan ownership, it's just that from what we are seeing, our involvement gets us a membership of the firm that owns St.Mirren, and our payments are key to paying off the old BoD. I had a utopic vision of 2,000 Buds all paying monthly subs, and owning the club, not a share of the firm that owns it. The supporters DDs are being chased up with vigour, but I cannot see how much a say we will have in things. If we are really THAT important, then surely we have a place on the BoD; a veto power; etc. The idea of paying out for this before you know what it actually all entails is ludicrous. Which is what Sid was saying , ..............which is exactly why I need a lie down, and tending to by Emily Maitliss and Susanna Reid in revealing towelling robes, each with the tattoo FTOF in a "delicate area". I may be dreaming, but I think some others on here are as well. SG said he'd never sell to anyone who didn't have SMFC's intersts at heart.................we should all hold him to this

"We'll only sell to someone who appears to have the best interests of St.Mirren FC at heart" - unfortunately, now appearing to be utter horsh*te . "We'll sell to the highest bidder, who right now seems to be the CiC, but we need to force their hand to see if they have the dough" - more accurate translation. I'm at the stage of being beyond caring who runs the club. Just seems to be lies, innuendo, "spin", u-turns, and personal agendas at every turn. The fact that I am writing the following words worries me to the core. (Well, until the next B&H pops up): "In the last 7 days or so, Sid has actually made some very valid points, although I don't agree with them all, and it was a shame that he wasn't given the chance to do a one-on-one Q&A with 10,000 Hours for the benefit of the audience/twitter followers" I need a drink

I'd like to know what the consortium, or certain members of it, feel about one of the other major parties in the "48% crew" being in a possible position to be running the show. I've heard the current BoD say lots of lovely things about the CiC in recent months/years, but as soon as GLS pops along, the sound of silence from the politburo is noticeable. If they have concerns, then why not air them, in the same way that the "positives" have been bigged up at every available opportunity. If the "negatives" are not insurmountable, then a word of support from SG & Co for the CiC, as they have done all along, may help Richard and his team enormously in the current climate. SG & Co have been the biggest PR for the CiC thus far, with their public statements of "preferred bidder status". If something has changed their mind, then they should be even-handed enough to let us know.

This is getting more and more mental/entertaining with every day ! Keep it up lads, and some very well-written arguments from both points of view being set-out. This is what an independent forum is really about, and it's a credit to Div and you lot. BTW Sid - I still have reservations, but I never thought my £10/month was going to get me a place on the Greenhill Road Politburo. I just wanted to check out that this wasn't going to be a frying-pan/fire situation if the CiC went through (as we were being confidently told it would be). I'd rather be involved than not. If it is to be a private buyer then I'm sure SG won't sell the club down the Cart to visiting poultry traders from India. I'm also sure that a private investor group would at least be interested in securing additional funding from supporter membership schemes, not to mention increasing the use and efficiency of the stadium within the local community.

Some quite amazing posts on this thread. Until a few weeks ago, any questioning of the CiC was greeted with partisan derision by a group of posters.... occasionally going a bit OTT. I was slaughtered by "some poster" on here for my views, but at least I made them. There was a period when anyone (and not just the manic ramblings of Yul) who raised queries/concerns about facets of the CiC, were ripped apart by the same clique-ish pack of arrogant oxygen thieves. I took the trouble to research what was going on before making a decision, and found myself backing the CiC model. I did/still do worry about the potential for in-fighting, and the possible lack of a decent management structure. These are not exactly insurmountable issues. Very few folk make money out of buying football clubs at anything beyond the "magical indicator of insolvency"...... £1.00, so there will always be the eyes of suspicion on a deal that pays out almost £2m....but SG said several times that they wouldn't sell to anyone who could endanger SMFC, so I'll hold him to that.

SG & Co won't sell to "anyone who doesn't have the best interests of St.Mirren FC at heart". They've said it so many times that it must be true.

I wouldn't be at all surprised that if there is another bid for SMFC, then it will have some form of supporter membership & representation on its board. This whole saga has shown that there is an appetite for Saints fans to get involved in that direction, and that is without properly promoting the concept heavily to the supporters, be they local or FFFs. If I was involved in a bid, then I would certainly be working out what % of shares could be issued by this route. The supporters membership each year then get to vote on who their representative on the BoD would be. Also, a standard annual template of decisions that need supporter backing (pricing; catering; merchandise; etc.) would be drawn up, along with procedure for the process that would require A.N.Other matter going to the fans for voting. A lot of good ideas have come up in the last 12-18 months, & these shouldn't go to waste. The general idea of the club involving the local community more & more, making the facilities get used more often, etc. - it is a win/win for all parties. I think any private bidder who didn't want to involve the supporters like this, in light of everything that has gone on, would be aff his heid. The commercial gains alone would make it a key part of any sensible bid.

I'm just disappointed that Yul & Animal haven't showed up yet, spoiling for a fight. I stopped following the thread for a while, and probably missed them being "outed".

Not if there are no other bidders out there. We just bumble along quite happily, and last time I checked, that was SMFC's highest finish for 1/4 century, and we seem to be slightly better positioned than half the SPL when it comes to pounds, shillings, and pence. I'll stick with the Quo

They have repeatedly stated (so it must be true) that they "won't sell to anyone who doesn't6 have the best interests of St.Mirren at heart". Thereafter, whether it be CiC, or anyone else who buys from SG, they will probably sell to whoever they like, once they want to sell the club........which hopefully wopuldn't be for some time, regardless of owner, as this is tortuous sh*t.

If anyone is going, ask these questions: Q1. If there is no pressure on the consortium to sell, and they didn't want to sell to KMG, why not (privately) tell him to go away ? Q2. Do the BoD think that the public tarring & feathering of KMG, despite his faults, did St.Mirren FC any favours ? Q3. Was it just an opportunity to settle some old scores ? If so, fair enough, but as Dirty Harry said "do it at home" All I could see was a misguided SMFC fan/director having the p*ss ripped out of him via the consortium, to no obvious benefit to SMFC. They don't need to sell (as we keep being told), so why not keep it private ? Not as if the KMG massive were on the case. #pettysquabbling

Once completed, It should be used as a flyer with instructions on how to set-up a Direct Debit, and mailed across the relevant databases/ demographics.

Sid - not often I say this - that is a very good post. You & I know a few things about the shenanigans of owners/agents/advisers in Lancashire, and from a few stories I've heard, the above post is a lot more accurate than some would imagine. These guys just want a club..any club, and that alone should send alarm bells ringing. I cannot possibly see SG & Co selling to them, as he has always stated that it would need to be for the good of the club. Even if these chancers bid £2.2m, it would be way too risky. I would like to see 10,000Hours go "full pelt" on a PR/recruitment offensive. Thus far outside of this forum, where it has been quite intense, the general supporters / Paisley public are largely in the dark/not that aware of it. This is a waste of an opportunity, and unless addressed properly, is something that 10,000Hours could live to regreat Saints have loads of good allies in the media, most of whom would probably be onside for the CiC idea. The simple sales/marketing plan of "explain what the CiC is about / explain how it benefits the supporter / explain the membership packages/benefits / make it easy to sign-up"................give that to as many people, as quickly as possible.

Nice informative PM from Richard there. Not right to break any confidences, but was impressed.

Got an e-mail today from a fellow exiled Bud (Bill Doran - now residing in Taunton, Zzzzooomerzet if anyone on here knows him). Must stress here that I don't agree with all of what is being posted below, but he asked me as a "one-off" to stick it on anyway (says he "doesn't do fan forums"). Disclaimer: BigFras does not necessarily associate himself with the following, but it may provoke some comments. Take it away "West Country Saint" Bill Doran: The CIC is a worthy concept but only if it pays the correct commercial value. Was it not mentioned somewhere on this forum section a while ago, that The Consortium and REA have formed a limited company together. Is this to deal with the transfer of shares ? This whole thing seems to be 100% an exercise in getting The Consortium the maximum value for their shares whilst discrediting ANY other bids, all the while the supporters are being asked to fund the "shortfall". Nobody else has come close to the £2m figure for a reason, so why is the CiC hell bent on paying it ? At best a conflict of interest. At worst an exercise in fleecing the fans and community to reward a small group of shareholders. Why does nobody hear alarm bells? The forum guys can argue over peppercorn rents for "the void" until the cows come home but they don't seem concerned that 10000 hrs value the club almost 2 times what appears to be it's market value. I never thought I would lose interest in St.Mirren but some of the ways this deal is being done, and the attempts to manipulate the support, really make me despair. I never post on forums, although read this one a lot (better than the official site anyway). Can you stick this on the board big yin ? And there we have it from zoider country. Don't shoot the messenger !