Big Fras

Ladeeezngennnelmen...my apologies for the length of this post, but not the content: Sid, enough’s enough. In the last week I deliberately tried to avoid some kind of personal slanging match /bitch fest. I succumbed with the reference to your hooped past, but that was even done in a silly fashion (ie. Shur Shean ). I made an effort to keep thing polite, even referring to you as “erudite”. In return I get the usual Sid, twisting & warping every little comment, not reading what people are posting, etc. EG: 1)You claim I said the St.Mirren brand was “worthless”. I actually said: “.....its not that strong” (ie. not £4m strong) 2)You queried if I was a St.Mirren supporter. I responded by explaining how long I have followed the Buds, and the ways that I have tried to “big them up” in the wider media when opportunities arose. You said that this was the actions of a “fan” not a “supporter”. OK. I then tried to explain that I have “supported” SMFC in a variety of financial ways over the last ¼ century+. You then say “...supporting St Mirren is not a measure of how much money you put into it”. I agree 100% Sid.......but aside from the explained historical, emotional, practical, and financial backing..... I’m left scratching my head at what else I am meant to be doing to qualify as a St.Mirren supporter/fan ? 3)I’d previously explained 2 or 3 times that I didn’t know the debt figure, but knew from Richard’s explanation that it was sizeable enough to take 2-3 years of CIC income to pay off, through direct finance and trade-off conditions. If its OK with you Sid, I’ll listen to Richard on this score. My concern was simple business/economics – the CIC funds can go to the team quicker if there was less of a debt to pay....no matter how that debt was paid/traded off. I want to see the CIC efforts directly impact on the footballing budget ASAP, and this is one way to achieve it. It is clear that nobody has been able to come close with a bid of £2m, so it is entirely reasonable to review the bid price before completion, especcially with funding "issues" causing delays. This would only benefit the FUTURE of St.Mirren FC. Tonight, we finally get the pearls of wisdom..... “If you had read my previous posts on the matter of the £2M, I have always held the opinion that it would be nice if the consortium took some of the £2M and pumped it straight back into the CIC......which is pretty much what I understand to be their intention. “ It would be nice indeed. How philanthropic ! Does it not also happen to be a stipulatuion of the deal by the backers ? I do hope that the BoD stick around with their annual £10k contribs after the obligatory “contracted-in” period expires. Otherwise Richard’s going to have to dust down the old contacts book again, poor sod. “You also fail to comment on the fact that some of the debt will be traded to zero based on social outcomes.....and that much of the debt is interest free.” You’ve completely missed the point. Debt is debt is debt. Bottom line is that if the purchase price wasn’t so high, this would be reduced, and we wouldn’t need to wait “2-3 years” (RA) for the CIC to really benefit the team. Interest free / social funding / etc.....it is still a payback method. You’ve said your piece and your position is now crystal clear. As is mine. We’re not likely to agree, so I’ll just leave it at that. Not much point in carrying this on.

Very good John. I think anyone who knows me will have a chuckle at that as well. Actually, tell me how I have tried to become St.Mirren's enemy No.1 ? I'd love to know how I have become such an enemy of the club, other than suggesting that the brand wasn't worth £4m as we couldn't sell-out our allocation for a Cup Final. Sid - lease let me know why I am such an enemy to the club. St.Sid - St.Mirren FC's St.Mirren's No.1 Enema

OK Sid. You wanted simple. "Supporter" - in my 36 years since attending my first Saints game I have paid admission fees, had a ST, bought merchandise, subscribed to Gold Bond/Lotto etc; , bought places at club functions, and even got some corporate advertising in for the club. Will that suffice ? I simply queried that the SMFC "brand" is not worth £4m. I never said it was worthless. Debt - I said before, I don't know the debt. Try reading before typing. I do know that there will be one, so sizeable that RA estimated that it would take 3 years of CIC income to pay it off. I believe that a more realistic purchase price reduces this debt figure by default. I asked you several times if you agreed that a lower purchasing price would help the CIC have a quicker positive impact on team affairs. Hardly malicious. You have never answered that. Why ?

To write that I had to avoid Kate Ford & Shobna Gulapti and all thoughts in between, which would have been "Breaking Into Heaven"

Mersey Paradise was definitely the "lost" classic Roses track. PS Ms.Barlow looking smokin' back on Corrie these days. I'm surprised you can still type

I liked Sarah Dubstar. A lot Anyhoo....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxR0JY-FMh8

Louise Wener fetish...and why not

I DEMAND THAT PHIL CLARKE PLAYS THIS AS A RUN-OUT TUNE "Sing LSD........sing LSD"............

Reading the book, SWR is back on the smack by this stage. You'd never know... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrRyv4B0vpI&feature=related

Sid - you queried if I was a SMFC fan, and stated that I ran the club down. I set the record straight...but couldn't resist a wee dig at your origins. Given the ferocious abuse you dole out on a regular basis, I'm surprised this even registered. Onto more important things. You're just not getting my point, so I'll simplify it, using your queries above: 1) "Asking Price" - yes, just that "Asking". Like when you sell a house, the "asking price" by the seller may not be the commercially realistic/justifiable one. 2) CIC bids that asking price ages ago. 3) CIC since then is having funding trouble...but nobody else seems to be able to come close to that magical "asking price". Why not offer a lower price to seal an immediate deal ? 3) CIC has a debt due to £2m asking price. I don't know the exact amount...but what I do know is that if a more competitive/realistic offer was made by the CIC...and there doesn't appear to be too much competition according to the wisened sages, then that debt would be considerably less. 4) CIC states that in the first 24-36 months, funds generated will largely be going to pay off the additional finance that was required. If less of that finance was required, then the monies would work their way onto the pitch quicker. Final "get out of jail" card here Sid: Why do you seem so content that the CIC (that you have been such a passionate supporter of) is struggling to meet the funding, in order to meet an "asking price" that nobody in a million square miles seems prepared to pay ? The direct consequence of which is that it will take an estimated 3 years (RA) for CIC funds to start really impacting on team budgets. You seem quite ambivalent about this

It was a simple statement: If the CIC is paying over the odds for the club do you think this is right ? Do you think this helps the CIC going forward ? Do you think that given the complete lack of any suitable buyers, and the economic sh*tsorm that prevails and may get worse, that the CIC could put in a "revised" bid for immediate completion and speed up the freeing up of CIC cash ? And BTW I've supported this club for my entire life, and far from running thm down, i have taken several opportunities to "big them up" through some stuff I did for the likes 4-4-2 and talkSport. Ever since my old man stuck me up on his shoulders at the old LS end in 1975, I've had no dalliance with any other team........ unlike you Shaint Shid, the shameless shamrock shagging shitehawk (as Shhhhir Shhhean Connery would say)

Someone will buy it and lease it back to them, like Leeds United #lastrefugeofthedoomed

I'd love to know the name of the surveyor who helped with that one. He can come and value my house ! Even if it is with £4m, if I was being a hard-faced git, I would be looking at the selling BoD and be "Thinking how keen are they to get shot ?" "How much can anyone else come close to bidding £2m?" Even if the agreed fee came down to say £1.4m, it will speed up the time where a fully operational CIC can help "live the dream" on the pitch, and to be honest that is what I am interested in. Its worth noting that in the current climate, for RA to have got this much fiscal backing lined up is quite some achievement, and shouldn't be sniffed at, regardless of anyone's views of a CIC. ETA Are the current BoD contracyed in @ £10k p.a. for just the 12 months ? I hope they stick around thereafter, as that could be a large financial hole to fill

Very good Sid. You are rightly/wrongly perceived as the CIC's No.1 fan/online enforcer/Goebbels figure. Given all the acreage of posts from your good self, it seems only fair that we get to hear your erudite views on the debt figure that we will be starting with. I use the word "we" as you and I will both be CIC members, and as you know, I'm not overly chuffed at the opening state of fiscal affairs. I await your pearls of wisdom.....

That's a fair point Steve, that you could argue to & fro, although I think "the brand" (and I despise Football Clubs being described as "the brand") is not that strong - eg. failure by a distance to even sell -out the allocation for first Cup Final appearance for over 20 years. Bottom line is that nobody seems capable of coming anywhere near stirring up a £2m bid, so why the CIC team aren't trying to squeeze the price down, thus improving the timeframe for getting CIC benefits on the pitch....seems like a waste of money. Ho-hum, not the best of starts, but off we go anyway......

Seriously Sid - I have exchanged PMs / e-mails with RA, and consequently am fully in support of the CIC, so you're barking up the wrong tree there. Good news that it looks like finally happening. My beef is that we start off with far too high a debt due to the price being paid for the club. If the purchase price was more realistic, then all the income streams to the CIC would find its way onto the pitch a lot quicker than it will now. I assume then that you support paying over the odds for the club, and this ensuring the CIC revenue stream takes longer to benefit SMFC on the pitch ? That;'s all I wanted you to clarify old chap. What say you ?

Sid - instead of the lame wisecracks, and there is none better at long-winded diatribes than you (other than Stu D), let's cut to the chase: CIC - good thing ? I say Yes GLS on board - very good thing. Burdening the CIC from Day 1 with a massive debt due to an over inflated selling price - Bad thing, and hampers the progress that can be made by the CIC in the next 12-36 months. What say you ?

What is odd about it Sid ? How the hell I could be seen to be having a go at the CIC is beyond me....... Despite initial suspicions and misgivings, I like the idea of a CIC, and believe it could work well for the club if handled well. RA has been good enough to reply to a few PMs regarding some queries I’ve made, and I don't doubt his sincerity in wanting a CIC to happen at St.Mirren. If there were Direct Debits then I guess I would be a fully paid-up member, but that’s nit-picking. I am just registering my concern at the fact that the CIC will be burdened by an unnecessarily high debt level, directly through an unjustifiable valuation of the club.......especially when there would appear to be a whirlwind of fiscal sh*te heading in everyone’s direction in the near future, making the banking crisis of 3 years ago seem like a tea party. I’m more interested in a vibrant future for St.Mirren FC (with a fully-organised CIC) rather than a “testimonial match” for the outgoing BoD. Vibrancy is hard to achieve with a massive debt round your neck in the middle of the worst recession for 80 years. All that hard work, and enthusiasm will be spent out in the first year or so, paying off a debt that needn’t be so high, as opposed to going into sustainably building a superb team on the pitch, which is ultimately what we all want.

Semi-serious point: I think the CIC model is great. My main concern is that it is immediately saddled with too much debt, and a huge amount of the initial "payback" from supporters and community backers is going straight into managing that debt. This is entirely down to the ludicrous fee being asked by the BoD for the club. Good luck to them if they can get away with it, but with no other bidder to be seen for miles, I think RA is in a position of strength here. Its probably too late, but I would be looking at a "re-evaluation" of the selling price, with a guarantee of fixing the deal as a consequence. Nothing personal, just simple business - supply and demand, etc. This may cheer up any knicker-wetting public funders, and would also ensure that it speeds up the time where the monies coming in can be spent backing the team on the pitch, which is what we all want to see. In short: CIC - good concept. Could be great for the club if actioned properly. REA good guy - with genuine intentions. Big problem - CIC loaded with unneccesarily high debt due to agreeing to an asking price that nobody else is prepared to go anywhere near (quite rightly), thus reducing its effectiveness in the critical first 12-36 months. No problem with the BoD getting their slice from all the work they have out in, but a wee bit of realism is surely warranted here, after all the deal has always been to sell to someone for "the good of the club". Loading a rookie organisation up to the gills with debt due an unjustifiably high asking price is not good for the club. I can imagine the Dragon's Den scenario. A football club Director meets Duncan "I'm fae Clydebank no' Glasgow" Bannatyne : Director: I would like £2 million pounds for 52% of my business. Dragon: So you value your business at nearly £4m pounds? Director: Yes Dragon: What profit did you show last year? Director: Er....nothing Dragon: What assets does your company hold? Director: We have a Football stadium with a value of f**k all as land can be purchased locally for very little. That's on the basis that you Dragons - or any bank - would want the option of building houses or a supermarket on it if this goes tits up.We have players on contracts which are all due to expire within 2 years. They are not "top end" players so I suppose the value of those would be..........f**k all. Dragon: What plans do you have for expansion within the market? Director: Well, Scottish football is going through a major downturn as attendances fall, sponsorship diminishes and Television deals are being squeezed every year, so I suppose we have f**k all chance of any growth in the next 100 years. Dragon: Do you have anything positive to tell us? Director: Well I have persuaded a pleasant businessman to buy the business using the Public Purse and have the debts for this paid off by business groups & supporters who presently really don't have a clue what they will get for their money. Its a great idea and commendably involves the community and supporters - but that lot have got to worry about paying me back first .......because they are going to pay my valuation, even though it bears no relation to the real world. Dragon: (Ashen faced Bannatyne) f**k me ragged, you should be sitting here!!!!

(This post is neither for/against the CIC) Animal - you are missing the point. There is a bid to pay the £2m.There are (unsurprisingly) no others of that valuation. The buyer has presumably informed the seller of exactly what the final hold-ups are, and what is being done to put that right. The seller is then understandably prepared to wait a while longer. If the seller had no faith that the delays would be ended, then they would pull the plug, and move on to whatever the next bid may be. The evidence that several hundred fans are prepared to pay a monthly sub is one that could be put to (arguably) better use if the CIC bid doesn't happen - this has been recognised, so no news there. This will rumble on until the "final 1%" is found, or another bid (say £1.4m) appears on the scene. Until then I expect to hear zilch. At least none of this is impacting on the pitch,and its not as if we have bailiffs trying the locks at Ralston.

Just why this lot were a great band....and not the coke-fuelled parody they turned into.....

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

Lalo Schiffrin is class. The Dirty Harry/Magnum Force/Enforcer musical scores are superb. Covered here by JTQ.... "Inspector 74...Inspector 74"