ds10

If the club was engaging fans properly this wouldn't be happening as frequently as it does. I was simply replying to an earlier post which suggested that the current state of affairs at St. Mirren was acceptable which I don't think it is.

Not sure what you're laughing about.....if this form continues you're going to have to rename your persona BottomCat! Surely Lennon won at least one league championship as a player? With Raith/Partick?

Football is a business. The club should be making continual efforts to maintain their existing support base and also if possible to attract new supporters into the club. They shouldn't be relying on people showing blind faith and optimism. And assuming that everyone who walks through the door will agree with your definition of a "supporter". As you say accusations of lack of engagement have been levelled legitimately in the past. I'm not making any new accusations, I just don't see any sign that things have improved significantly or at all. It's not about the club pandering to every bleating forum post, it's about the club communicating effectively with it's fans. Which it doesn't. For example, (and there are numerous others)

I don't think I said anywhere in the post that relegation was inevitable. Saints are one point above the relegation places, this is simply a statment of fact. We have also recently been outplayed by the team below us (twice) and the team above us. As far as engagment is concerned, I think you only have to read some of the comments on here to see how disconnected poeple feel from the club currently. Whether you agree or disagree with their opinions, surely the best way forward for the club is to keep as many of the supporters onboard as possible?

Saints are currently in 8th place, one point ahead of Livingston in 9th who have outplayed them in 2 consecutive games. As the bottom 2 teams will be relegated or in a playoff, I think just above the drop zone is an accurate description of the current position. Saints spent the whole of last season with their head buried in the sand, saying "Tommy Craig is an experienced coach who just needs time to get it right" "Gary Teal is an experienced coach who just needs time to get it right". I think it's now time that it's time that the club accepted there are serious issues and starts to address them. So you're saying that you need to mid-October to make a judgment on whether the debacle of the last season and a bit can be considered acceptable? For me, the form of the team is one thing, but the lack of engagement with the fans is not excusable and I think doing lasting and serious harm to the club. I still don't see how that can be considered acceptable.

The lowest point in St Mirren's history I can remember is the 1997-1998 season when we were saved from relegation from the first division by Hugh Murray’s goal. Within the space of a season we have gone from an established Premiership club, all the way back to 1998, teetering above the drop zone in the 2nd tier of Scottish football. (This time having been outplayed in two successive games by one of the two teams below us.) Any progress made during Gilmour’s time wiped out. And even worse, during all that time, little or no attempt to engage with the fans and let them know what’s going on. How low do we have to fall before somebody actually does something about it? Now I completely get the point about the fact that there are things in life way more important than the results (or the existence) of a football club. But as a fan, how you can rate the events of the last season and a bit, as acceptable is beyond me.

That's hardly a fair comparison. Lennon's situation was completely different from Murray. Lennon took charge of a club two leagues above the club he was working at. OK he made the mistake of thinking that the players from Cowdenbeath would be able to cut it in the SPL, which wasn't really true with an exception or two. But he arrived with a clear plan on how he wanted the team to play, and a list of players he wanted to help carry this out. He changed the way that the team played in the first season and while it wasn't all that successful, there were signs of progress. Murray on the other hand has taken charge of Saints in the same league he was already working in. Given that it seems only fair to expect that he would be familiar with the players at this level and have a good idea of the standards required to be successful in this league. However he appears to have totally misjudged the ability of the current squad. I see no evidence yet that he has any clear idea of how he wants the team to play. Or that he has any firm idea of the type of players that he wants to bring in to improve the squad. So Murray is way behind what Lennon achieved, even in the summer of Beath season.

The worst thing about the whole thing is the fact that Murray was assuring us all we were Championship contenders at the start of the season. If he can get that so badly wrong, it sure doesn't give much confidence that he's got any clue what he's doing. A little over a year ago we were 8th in the SPL; the idiotic decisions made by those in charge of the club over the past 15 months or so have totally destroyed this team. Hopefully the extent of the damage is actually beginning to sink in now, because I don't see many signs that those in charge have the determination, energy or ability to turn this around.

I could have sworn I saw Murray at the game on Friday night, but it doesn't appear he was there after all. He certainly wasn't watching the same game I watched. On the upside though, it's clear that Mark Burchill hasn't been putting in the effort to check out Livi's opponents.

Nowhere near good enough. Three games in and we're 1 point ahead of the bottom team who have a game in hand. We're looking just as bad in this league as we did last year in the SPL. Total shambles.

Hopefully tha one thing that will finally come out of this appalling start to the new season is that the footballing genius Murray may finally take on board the amount of work that will be required to turn this team around. Last years te were appalling half the squad left including the two best players at the club and Murray has done virtually nothing to turn thongs around. I expected him to come to tje club with firm ideas as to how to turn the team around. But I don't see any evidence of that at all. Keeping Goodwin and signing Gow were both very poor decisions. The problem with Murrays approach is that he seems to think what he did at Dumbarton will be good enough here. Unfortunately using the same standards that he used at Dumbarton will only result in the same outcome. A team that will just scrape by in the Championship if he's lucky. Hopefully it will now be starting to dawn on him that rather than being 'championship contenders' and 'a lot better than people think we are' that there is actually a mountain to climb before we get there. Because the only person he is fooling with that talk seems to be himself.

Club should have sorted it once and for all in the summer. Offering him a 2 yr deal at the start of last season was ludicrous. No point in having players who don't really fit in. Especially if you're going with a squad of 17 or 18 players (most of whom are kids).

Some of the rubbish posted on this forum is truly unbelievable. Every time I think that things can't get any worse on this website I am proved wrong. Any worse and it will be as bad as the team.

Goodwin's been a liability at the club for the past couple of seasons. We should have let him go in the summer. He shouldn't be at the club let alone in the starting line up.

On the way according to this today.......

Managing to last a whole 4 minutes before we capitulated to the forces of darkness can hardly be regarded as impressive by any stretch of the imagination. Hopefully this will serve as a wake up call for Murray, as he seems to think the team in it's current state is pretty good. "The gulf between ourselves... and Rangers isn't as great as people think" Well based on the 90 mins on Friday that doesn't seem to be the case. There is still an awful lot of work still to do before we can anywhere close to challenging for promotion.

It is...and I'm not sure what the original point has to do with Saints?....

Maybe he should tell Thommo............

Agreed. Realistic though it may be the last thing you would want is your captain chucking the towel in, a week before the season even starts though..... Murray was in the paper a week or two ago, claiming that we "are absolutely in the mix to win the league." Obviously if nothing else, he hasn't managed to convince Thompson......

If it's anything like the club these days, it will be a half hearted effort with no real aspirations of success, and a budget set at the bare minimum to scrape by........

Edited to make it more (or less) apparent what I was getting at

Wow I think I must have woken up in an alternate reality this morning. As St Mirren are currently overrun with fantastically talented footballers, letting two of our most highly rated young players leave the club (and go (in John McGinn's case) to a team [Hibs] that we are supposedly 'rumoured' to be competing with for promotion no less) should have no impact at all.... Great to see that instead of digging their heels in, sticking their head in the sand and throwing teddy in the corner like Hibs have done with their want away midfielder.... that St Mirren are happy to say "Off you go John McGinn; we don't care; we'll just beat your new team [Hibs] anyway!" Makes me proud to be a St Mirren fan..[or ramble on incoherently]..Onwards and upwards... Hopefully I will win the prize for incoporating the most cliches in a single post in history.......inspired! truly inspired!!

It looks like most of the clubs in the division are well ahead of us in terms of assembling a team for the upcoming season. The problem with Murray taking the trialist route is not that it can't be done, or even that Murray himself can't do it, but we have recently been through a couple of managers who have completely failed in this approach and signed player like Ball or had to resort to panic signings like Djemba-Dejemba. Given that, the complete mess the team was in last season and the number of players that have left, I can understand why people might think that picking up one or two players from a few bounce games will really be able to turn the team around.

Well this is certainly way over my head!