Gary Blues

What, like his outrageous claims that he could clear the club's £3 million debt, build a brand new stadium, build a brand new training complex and establish the club in the SPL? Wait a minute................

Yet again a poster - YulBrynner - makes a very good post, raising lost of sensible and reasonable concerns. Yet again, the pro-cic brigade direct abuse at him - and fail to counter a single point he has raised. As I have said before, I om the sidelines on this subject and am waiting to see what happens. I'd like the cic to be a raging success - but I have the very same concerns that YulBrynner raises. What I can say for certain however is that the pro-cic brigade do their cause no good on this forum by the way they abuse fellow posters - and by their lack of sensible discussion. There are a lot of folk out there who read this forum and share Yul's concerns - and shake their heads at the reaction of the pro-cic brigade to anyone who dares voice a concern.

Maybe this is the scenario? The shareholders outside the consortium own small numbers of shares. It would take a large number of these shareholders to get back over 50% possibly? If an alternative prospective buyer dangled a smaller but guaranteed sum of money in front of a consortium member then they might be tempted to take it? If they did that then the consortium would be broken and the CIC would be dead. The alternative prospective buyer could then negotiate with the remaining consortium members at a knockdown price.

The problem is that anyone who dares post an alternative viewpoint or ask a question gets shouted down and abused. I'm open minded about the whole thing but with regards to "debate", Yul seems to be raising very reasonable and serious questions and doing it in a very entertaining style! I haven't really read anything from the supporters of the cic to convince me in favour of it. Indeed, most of the abuse and mud slinging they dish out actually does it no favours.

Is this the same club that still owes £ millions to all the employess and local businesses it shafted?

Good post Stuart and I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I suppose my main concern about it all is that the overriding aim of the CIC in the immediate future will be to raise £2 million to give to Gilmour & Co. There is no doubt that Gilmour & Co have done great work to get us into the position we are, at great financial risk to themselves, they are essentially putting the boot into the other 48% shareholders in order to get their money (particularly GS) It means that the focus and priority of the CIC won't be the progression of the club until they have paid them off. However, it seems the only way forward and so far I think Richard Atkinson seems to be doing a good job.

Just a "christian" god?

Indeed. I'd say the chances of Dorman coming back are between slim and zero.

What does it matter if its a loan? The debt will be with the CIC - not the club.

The CIC would have the debt - not the club.

That is also my understanding - which is why I've been baffled as to why people are concerned with regards to debt. The debt will have nothing to do with St. Mirren FC.

Like most of the shite he's signed? I wouldn't give Lennon a penny to spend. He's clueless...... just like you.

What is "refreshing" about being bottom of the league, getting knocked out of the cup in the first round to lower league opposition, having our worst start to a season in 20 years, playing even more negative football than the previous manager, having a lack of scouting contacts and not playing any youth players?

Was Stuart Gilmour & Co getting it in the neck week after week in person from loud mouth boo boys? Yip.

Old, injury prone and shite. Wouldn't be suprised if Lennon signs him!

Interesting line up with 4 fowards. I wonder where they are all playing and in particular where McGowan is starting.

Well stop making them then

Why the fuck would a German with any ounce of talent want to come and play in Scotland?

Slightly off track but following on from above, its incredible to think that Scotland were ranked 2nd in the UEFA rankins in 1970 with only England ahead of us. Of course this was more or less all down to Celtic who were then ranked the number one club in Europe with Rangers down in 24th position, Aberdeen 35th, Kilmarnock 42nd and Hibs 50th. It would have been interesting if there had been a table in 1967 as Scotland would surely have been miles out in front back then.

Here were Scotland's rankings in the UEFA coefficients in the period when Steve Clarke was "bored" with Scottish football: 1983 - 3rd 1984 - 3rd 1885 - 7th 1986 - 9th 1987 - 7th Back in 1983 the only countries ahead of Scotland were West Germany & Spain while England were 6th. Not only were we ahead of England but also Italy, France, Holland, Portugal & Russia! There were 3 Scottish clubs in UEFA's top 10 ranked clubs in Europe - Aberdeen, Celtic & Dundee United! Aberdeen were ranked ahead of Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Juventus, Liverpool, Manchester United AC & Inter Milan, Ajax and every other club in England.... in fact only Benfica & Hamburg were ranked above Aberdeen! Even in 1987 when St. Mirren won the Scottish Cup, Scotland was ahead of the likes of Holland, France. while Dundee United were ranked 5th in Europe and there were 2 Scottish clubs in Europe's top 15. Dundee United were ranked just ahead of Real Madrid and also ahead of the Milan clubs, Juventus, Barcelona, etc (albeit no English clubs in Europe at this point). Yeh, I can see Steve Clarke's point, Scottish football was obviously very "boring" when he played in it.

I'm sure that will be the case. He can't play against Hibs anyway and Hughes will probably want to wait until the last minute in case Hanlon gets injured.

No, its 4 home league wins in that time, no friendlies included. We've won 8 home games in the past 13 months and lost 4 home games to non Old Firm teams. In the last full season before Gus became manager - in the First Division - our record was worse than 50/50. Its a remarkable improvement. Yes we have, all of the players mentioned. If Gus's signings have all been so poor home come he's taken us from struggling against relegation to the Second Division to an SPL side? IMO Gallacher is our best goalkeeper since Campbell Money. Who sign Howard? Jack Ross is our best right back we're had since Steve Clarke Who sign Hanning/Cuthbert? For a cheap signing, Innes has been excellent. Yes, Steven Thomosn has indeed been an excellengt signing. Andy Dorman was the top goalscoring midfielder in the SPL last season. He's our best goalscoring midfielder since Billy Stark. He's been a brilliant signing. He makes a lot of runs - without the ball - into attacking positions that mostly don't get noticed unless the ball falls to him. He probably does more running that anyone else in the side. Its a big mistake to label someone like Dorman as lazy - as many St. Mirren fans were guilty of labelling Billy Stark. He was signed as an attacking midfielder and has done that job brilliantly. He hasn't suffered several injuries. If he's made so many mistakes with his signings then how has he managed to turn us around from a bottom half First Division side into an SPL side? No they aren't. The average has dropped because of the last game at Love Street, first game at the new stadium and the bigger capacity for Old Firm. Like for like gates are no different. And who was manager a year ago? The realistic fans will be happy with us retaining our SPL place. We're already aiming for a top 6 place and a spot in the League Cup Final. Going by the record of previous managers, a new manager could have us back at the wrong end of the Second Division. Its not a gamble worth taking. McGinn has been playing in the middle most of the season. IMO he should be playing wide left - that's where he was playing when he scored 3 of his goals this season and when he was playing well. St. Mirren's aim should be as a lower half SPL side that will fight against relegation some seasons and hopefully fight for a top 6 spot other seasons and in a fantastic season qualify for Europe plus have some decent cup runs. After years of struggling at the wrong end of the Second Division, Gus has almost got us to that point. We were only 8 pts away from a top 6 spot at the split last season and we're not that far away this season. I took would like to see different line ups, more attacking football, indeed, I'd love to see us abandon the passing game and go for a direct route one long ball game. I fundamentally disagree with the way Gus has us playing football - probably more so than virtually everyone else on this board. My problem though is that a new manager might not be marginally better than Gus but could in fact be much much worse. I don't think its a gamble worth taking.

We've won 7 home matches in the past 13 months. Which is what you would expect when consolidating in the SPL after years of struggling at the wrong end of the First Division. Apart from Paul Gallacher, Jack Ross, Chris Innes, Steven Thomson and Andy Dorman. Apart from Andy Dorman. Yeh, let's sack Gus because he's "seemingly" fallen out with the left back. They are better now than when we last qualified for the UEFA Cup in the 80s! They are better under Gus than they have been for most of the past 20 years! So what's new? They'd be on the managers back even if we were Champions of Europe! We've already got one. Yes I can. I deny it. What, like you? Thicko.

Okay then, I'll try opening my eyes. Yip, even with my eyes open it still appears that Gus has taken us from the brink of the 2nd Division to a 4th consecutive season in the SPL and 2 major semi finals in the same year for the first time ever in the club's history. Your problem is that you are thick and stupid.

You're being a bit harsh on yourself there.