Dibbles old paperboy

Jack wasn't given permission to talk to Dundee. He didn't decline their offer to stay with us instead. He was interviewed for the Barnsley job but wasn't 1st choice and 'ruled himself out' of the job minutes before their board appointed their first choice - still it helped keep oor Jack in the shop window come the summer! Did the Barnsley thing not happen at a key point in the season with Jack absenting himself in the run up to one ofthe most important games of the season? As for leaving behind Ross Stewart - Jack gave him about 10 games (mostly as a sub) in 2 seasons where he was farmed out on loan to Alloa for the bulk of his time with us. Rather than me 'claiming' Jack Ross sold 4 players... can we not just accept it as a matter of public record that Jack sold Naismith, McAllister, Mallan, and Morgan in one 12 month spell?

Had Fergie not beaten Premiership opposition in the cups while we were still in the equivalent of the Championship and narrowly lost another cup game against opposition from a higher league (eg Dundee United cup game)? After winning promotion Fergie stayed on and kept us up. From memory any time Jack Ross' team met Premiership opposition in the cups we were soundly horsed (Celtic 4 - St Mirren 1; St Mirren 1 - Dundee 3 (friendly); Partick Thistle 5 - St Mirren 0; Aberdeen 4 - St Mirren 1). We conceded an average of 4 goals a game against Premier opposition whenever Jack was St Mirren manager. There were few signs that Jack Ross would have had us competitive in the Premiership had he stayed on..

Fergie left a decent team behind him at Love Street, decent scouts and had signed young players to the club who went on to represent Scotland (at a time when we qualified for World Cups!). Fergie moved to Aberdeen and won the cups, league title and European trophies, managed Scotland and oversaw the most successful period in Manchester United's history. Fergie was with us for just under 4 years - twice as long as Jack Ross and he stayed around to manage us back in the premier division (having knocked back Aberdeen in 1977). Jack Ross cut short Shankland's loan, sold Jason Naismith, sold Kyle McAllister, sold Stevie Mallan, sold Lewis Morgan and left us with signings like Myles Hippolyte for a tilt at the premiership which he didn't intend to hang around for. Jack Ross also signed close to 40 players in 3 transfer windows and blew all the transfer fees received on dozens of players we didn't need. We had 2 exciting seasons when he was around for his 20 months or so but to almost get relegated from the Championship when he inherited a team with Mallan, Morgan, Naismith, MacKenzie, Shankland, McAllister, Magennis etc was some achievement! Who did Jack Ross leave behind at the club who he'd signed or developed (rather than players inherited from previous managers, or former academy players like the McGinns?) Barely a few months went by without Jack being linked with other clubs... Dundee, Barnsley and Ipswich were all spoken with during his short tenure with us (that we know about). Jack had no intention of staying around to manage us in the premiership.

Jack Ross had very little intention of managing us in the premiership and was applying for jobs without the board's knowledge. St Mirren gave him permission to talk to Barnsley and Ipswich but only found out that Jack had held talks with Sunderland when the local press were announcing him as their next manager.

The bad feeling over his departure from us was down to the deal being agreed before St Mirren knew anything about Jack's deal with Sunderland. We had given him permission to speak with Barnsley and Ipswich. Jack publicly was saying he was looking forward to a season in the premiership with St Mirren and we weren't going into the season just to make up the numbers or only avoid relegation while privately he was applying for other jobs without telling the club what he was up to - he couldn't wait to leave!

He inherited 16 players and told at least 8 of them to find new clubs. Hardly the actions of a manager wanting to keep the previous' manager's system and squad together.

Kearney's signings didn't struggle until March. They drew away at Pittodrie and Tynecastle in February, and had Kyle McAllister scored an open goal against Hibs at home we'd have taken something from that game as well (we should also have had a penalty awarded in the same game against Hibs).

Alan Stubbs gave both Ross Stewarts about as much game time as Jack Ross did whilst being at he club for a shorter period of time. Jack Ross was the one who dropped Reilly after signing Mullen. Gareth Wardlaw once kept us in the premier league with about his only goal of the season... does he count as a good signing because it was an important goal? McCart I think played 1 game, possibly two, as did Hill, as did Buchanan, as did Donati, almost half of Jack Ross' signings hardly played for him! Hippolyte signed for us after promotion to the premier league was almost certain... money well spent? Maybe Jack should have signed Mullen on a 5 year deal so that we can get the best out of him in years 3, 4, and 5?

If you want to start bringing luck and last minute goals into things: 2nd February: Rangers 4 - St Mirren 0 (Andrew Dallas awards Rangers 5 penalties in 1 game, the first goal from open play came in the 81st minute) 11th March: St Mirren 0 - Kilmarnock 1 (on a horrendous night, we lose to a last minute goal against a team who finish in 3rd place) 27th March: St Johnstone 1 - St Mirren 0 (Simeon Jackson misses that penalty).

Don't let the facts get in the way of your point: 16th February: Aberdeen 2 - St Mirren 2 (just over 2 weeks after Kearney's only transfer window closed) 23rd February: Hearts 1 - St Mirren 1 2nd March: St Mirren 1 - Livingston 0

I think you are overly-generous on Jack Ross' "good signing policy" in return for shipping out Lawrence Shankland and selling Jason Naismith, Kyle McAllister, Stevie Mallon and Lewis Morgan Jack Ross signed (and re-signed) over 40 players in 3 transfer windows (i.e. 18 months) 1. Craig Storrie 2. Rory Loy - brought in to replace Shankland 3. Pal Fjelde 4. Josh Todd 5. Billy 'The Fish' O' Brien 6. Stellios (was signed twice by Jack Ross) 7. Cammy Smith (was signed twice by Jack Ross). 8. Stephen McGinn (was signed twice by Jack Ross) 9. Adam Eckersley (signed twice by Jack Ross) 10. Harry Davis (signed twice by Jack Ross) 11. Jack Baird (given 2 contract extensions by Jack Ross) 13. Jamie Langfield (player contract extended and brought on to the coaching team by Jack Ross) 14. Ross Stewart 15 Jordan Kirkpatrick 16 Ross Stewart 17. Gregor Buchanan 18. Gary Irvine (contract extension) 22. Dale Hilson. 23. Ian McShane 24. Darryl Duffy 25. Liam Smith 26. Jamie McCart 27. Danny Mullen (signed twice, 2nd time on a 2 and a half year deal when we were heading from the premiership), 28. Ryan Flynn 29. Mark Hill 30. Myles Hippolyte 31. Gary MacKenzie (2 contract extensions from Jack Ross) 32. Massimo Donati (does any signing better illustrate the extravagant spending spree Jack was allowed to go on during his time with us?) 33. Jim Kellerman 34. Paul McGinn. Inspired signings by Jack Ross (out of 40): Stephen McGinn; Cammy Smith; Adam Eckersley; Harry Davis; (all signed during his 1st window) Decent signings by Jack Ross: Stellios (1st season); Rory Loy; Craig Samson; Liam Smith; Paul McGinn Jack Ross signings who only played about 5 games a season or less under him (or subsequent managers): Craig Storrie; Pal Fjelde; Josh Todd; Jamie Langfield; Ross Stewart; Jordan Kirkpatrick, Ross Stewart, Gary Irvine, Dale Hilson, Darryl Duffy, Jamie McCart, Mark Hill, Massimo Donati, Myles Hippolyte, Jim Kellerman, Gregor Buchanan. Jack Ross signings who looked decent for 6 months before falling out of favour with Jack Ross: Gavin Reilly (still offered a contract extension when we move up a league after being dropped in favour of hardly-scoring Danny Mullen), Ian McShane. Jack Ross didn't win a game until his 4th month in the job (December - after being appointed in September). Players who did a job at the time: Billy O'Brien (brought in to replace Jamie Langfield - before Jamie Langfield was given a new contract as a player and coach) , Stellios (2nd season). 0% of Jack Ross' punts / investments for the future worked out during his own time at the club - the 2 Ross Stewarts are now playing regular premiership football elsewhere. The squad inherited by Oran Kearney in the premiership was significantly poorer than the one inherited by Jack Ross in the Championship (Naismith, MacKenzie, Irvine, McAllister, Morgan, Mallan, Shankland!). After the fiasco of Stubbs, Oran brought in Hammill, Lyness, Ferdinand, Jackson, Hladky, Muzek, Popescu, Dreyer, Lyons, McAllister, The Duck. I'd suggest that Oran achieved a similar number of inspired signings in 1 transfer window as Jack Ross achieved in 3 and the only players signed by Kearney who hardly featured were the right back (Paul McGinn kept him out the team) and the Duck.

That;s the great thing about early season stats. 5 games ago we were one win away from 1st place. Another way of looking at things. We have less than half the points of Ross County after playing 7 games this season and also trail other potential relegation candidates: Livingston, Hamilton Accies and are 1 defeat away from bottom place. While I think Goodwin should be a good appointment in the medium term I have a feeling we have gone backwards since the end of last season when we had a bit of momentum and luck and were on a decent run of results for the final 3 months of the season.

At least a decent percentage of Goodwin's signings look fine, all the games have been tight and competitive so far - just two ways which pour considerable doubt over your claim that things are worse now than under Stubbs. Goodwin also has a better attitude towards being St Mirren manager than Stubbs had.

Stubbs signings (since you seem to have trouble remembering) Danny Rodgers (permanently crocked, now at Morton) Hayden Coulson (loan ended by the autumn) Josh Heaton (record signing fee in the past 25 years, 2 poor performances against Queens Park and Spartans) Cole Kpekawa (a first pick under Stubbs and banished and mutually consented by Kearney) Alfie Jones (loan ended early) Matty Willock (loan ended early) Lee Hodson (loan deal honoured until the end of the deal, injured for most of the 2nd half of the season) Ryan Edwards (loan deal ended early) Jeff King (mutually consented) Cody Cooke (3 goals in 1st season) Nicolai Brock-Madsen (0 goals, loan deal ended early) League results under Stubbs - every game over before half time apart from against relegated Dundee.

I think the point about Shankland is that we had him on loan twice and Jack Ross punted him to bring in Rory Loy.

when you say expecting of our strikers...

Mullen puts the ball in the net about 7 times a season on average (including 1 season where he scored 14 goals in League 1 - he' also only scored 1 goal in a season at Championship level, and another Championship season banging in 4 goals).

Proven goal scorer at League 1 level surely? From 2012-18 he scored 33 goals (in 5 seasons) in 141 appearances. He had 10 goals from 33 league appearances when in the Champinship with Livi in 2015-5, and followed that up with 1 league goal from 19 league appearances the following season. When he dropped down to League 1 he scored 14 league goals in 32 games. The following season when he joined us midway through the season he scored 0 league goals when we won the Championship and 4 league goals with Livi before joining us on loan and then signing in January. Some season in the Championship Gary MacKenzie will have scored more goals than Danny 'Proven Goalscorer' Mullen.

Perhaps it says more about Jack Ross dishing out contract extensions to players he didn't rate than it says about Jack Baird? Going forward, Broadfoot has just turned 35, and Gary MacKenzie is 34 next month (and has had injury problems in recent seasons). Jack Baird was given contract extensions by Gary Teale (May 2015), Jack Ross (May 2017), Jack Ross again (January 2018 - when we were looking certainties for promotion giving Baird a deal until the end of our 1st season back in the premiership), and Oran Kearney (January 2019 - tying Baird to the club until summer 2021).

Jack Baird's league appearances for St Mirren: 2014-5 (The Tommy Craig / Gary Teale relegation season): 8 2015-6 (The Ian Murray / Alex Rae Championship season): 31 2016-7 (The Alex Rae / Jack Ross 'Great Escape I' season): 25 2017-8 (The Jack Ross Promotion Skoosh Season): 31 2018-9 (The Alan Stubbs / Oran Kearney 'Great Escape II' Season): 34 Jack's central defensive partners during the last 5 seasons: Ellis Plummer, Marc McAusland, Viktor Genev, Jim Goodwin, Andy Webster, Gary Irvine, Ben Gordon, Gary MacKenzie, Harry Davis, Gregor Buchanan, Jamie McCart, Cole Kpekawa, Josh Heaton, Alfie Jones, Mihai Popescu. I make that around 15 other central defensive partners over 5 seasons - most of whom weren't good enough for the level required. Jack's appearance record suggests that apart from when Harry Davis and Gary MacKenzie were both fit he has been regarded as a starting XI defender for the last 4 seasons. He has played under 9 managers during his time with the 1st team.

So why did Jack Ross hand Baird a contract extension once we were certainties for promotion (other than JR having a record for being frivolous with the St Mirren budget?)

Agreed. It might be that Goodwin favours Broadfoot's experience and wants to add that to the mix. I don't think it's a particularly progressive signing. Gus probably knows what he is getting with Broadfoot so fair enough.

The Hawk's final two seasons were awful... the Tommy Craig / Gary Teale season where he was injured and in the huff and the Ian Murray / Alex Rae season. 5 league goals in his final two seasons. While defenders can sometimes use their experience to overcome their advancing years I'm not sure signing Broadfoot on a 2 year deal is a great move for us. I thought Broadfoot had a few rushes of blood to the head in his time at Killie instead of using his experience he got caught out and lost his discipline. Given doubts about MacKenzie's injury record turning to a 35/ 36 year old Broadfoot might not be the best solution. I'd actually have been happier with Jack Baird as an option at centre half - he has some pace that Broadfoot and MacKenzie don't possess and has shown that with the right partner alongside him that he can be a decent bottom 6 defender. I suspect Gus reckons that Kirk can still do a job at our level and might also be a good character around the dressing room.

Liking the use of Psalm 23 there too.

I thought this had become the Bazil thread again? (Even with the mighty Bazil on ignore it would appear we have a few pages dealing with a missing question mark in one of the mighty Bazil's posts).