bonzoboys
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Posts posted by bonzoboys
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Basic info free on Companies House. You would need to buy the rest
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/b25047b1ff8dbbd239df89550f56224b/wcprodorder?ft=1
Thanks for link- paid my £2 and bought a copy of documents. Quick read this afternoon
Interesting £100 of shares held by Christopher Stewart (guess that a technicality in setting up business)
No mention in documents of memberships, members voting for boards etc - in fact no mention of St Mirren anywhere.
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No a CIC is a type of organisation in its own right, like a sole trader or an LLP.
CIC's can either be ltd by garantee or by shares.
10000hours is ltd by shares, for some technical reasons, by these shares DO NOT work the same way as you would normal shares where you can buy and sell them and indivuduals can make money.
10000hours CIC
How do the shares work and who controls them?
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Not sure how to word this question, RA's own description was that a CIC stands between a Charity and Ltd Company. If a Charity applies to a funder, one of the first things it is asked for is its Constitution i.e. outline it's aims and the guidelines as to the way it will operate. I guess a CIC has a similar document, does one exist for 10000hours. If so can it be published?
We have heard a lot of statements with nobody seeing what binds it all together. CIC sounds great but a bit worried about how it is all controlled and tied together. For example who can change the "constitution" - the Exec Board, the CIC Board, a vote by members? Do not want to get involved then find that all the real operational control is in the hands of the few. I find myself having to read hundreds of posts and answers to pick up little facts.
Asked previously, but never got a reply - who owns the vehicle called "10000hours" Is it a vehicle owned by RA or does it in fact exist as the entity buying the 52%. If RA goes elsewhere and starts another CIC does the CIC stay put.
Thanks.
Added this morning after visting CIC web page - Richard - apologies if getting a bit deep in to how CIC operates and am aware that a little information taken in isolation is very dangerous.
From CIC Guidance Document
To form a new CIC you need to deliver the following documents to the appropriate Registrar of Companies for England and Wales, Scotland, or Northern Ireland:
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Memorandum of association
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A printed copy of the articles of association that comply with the requirements imposed by section 18 of the Companies Act 2006 Act and part 3 of the Community Interest Company Regulations, or which are otherwise appropriate in connection with being a community interest company. Please note that a CIC cannot rely on the default articles under section 20 of the Companies Act 2006. The link will take model articles for different types of CICs and model articles with explanatory notes.
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Form IN01. Requires details of the company’s proposed name; whether limited by shares or guarantee public or private; the first directors (and secretary if applicable), the intended situation of registered office; a statement of compliance etc.
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A form CIC36. Requires the company’s community interest statement. The purpose of the community interest statement is to confirm that the company will provide benefit to the community. It does this by describing its intended activities who they will help and how. The link will take you to a copy of the form and an example of a completed form.
Are these documents available for public consumption. Appreciate they may be a bit of heavy reading.
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So what of the forgotten 48% of shareholders. So the consortium of 5 is going its merry way. No word yet from the board to keep them informed. I suppose it is always this way for minority shareholders but maybe things are changing. The 10000hours already promises one board position to the 48%, but on which board?
But who are the 48%. Aside from the few significant shareholders who have been excluded from the consortium, the vast majority are fans who have simply put money in to support the club over the years. People with a love for the team through good and bad times, knowing that they are never going to get a return. That sound familiar? Sounds very much like the same sort who RA thinks are likely to sign up for the membership scheme. Do the sums, 900 less 5 consortium, assume a reasonable percentage takes out membership that adds up to a big percentage of the 500 pledges, lot of voting rights, maybe worth 2 3 of members 5 seats on board. Maybe the silent 48% is going to get a reasonable voice in reality, far greater than the 1 seat promised by CIC.
Not sure how we judge this. Maybe Div can start a counter on the web page to allow the forgotten 48% to indicate that they are pledging.
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10000hours may well go on and do other things, but the St Mirren based members will be the ones in control of the members board there is no dilution risk for the St Mirren/10000hours elected members board because of the involvement of 10000hours in other projects.
Any new projects based around a members concept would have a specific members board related to that project
10000hours CIC
I am slightly confused by the way you talk about 1000 Hours going somewhere. Who owns the whole brand / name "10000hours"? Is 10000hours, name/ brand owned by RA? Is it not simply the company that is buying the 52% St Mirren shares? When you talk of 10000hours going elsewhere do you mean Richard or others going and repeating the process elsewhere, under another name? Sorry to be a bit picky but often the answer is in the detail.
The dilution of the St Mirren membership concerns me should the Executive board, broaden the membership via an expansion in a different direction. (Richard and others sound very positive about the wider Community model expanding) Say we have 400 members buying in thinking it is all about St Mirren purchase and 10000hours expands in other directions within the unmbrella of "10000hours" Wider community users thinking it may be good to go to the bar within the stadioum - wider use, generates more income, so decide on longer opening hours for bar - only side effect non"St Mirren" members. Is there a possibility that a wider membership would have no loyalty to the basic ethos that we all seem to be following at present - an interest in St Mirren.
Thanks.
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RC indicated that there are 900 shareholders, mostly small numbers who have put their money in to do their little bit to help the club over the years. It looks to me that 900 less 5 of these Club supporters are being ignored at present. Given that the Club is in the middle of a very significant period of potential change, should they not be having a public meeting for shareholders to explain the wider implications of the CIC proposal to the 48% who are not part of the selling consortium?
This does not need to be an EGM so I would assume that it could be advertised via the official and other un-official web pages and organised in the near future.
The public meetings currently being run by 10000 Hours are obviously being fronted by RC and a group who obviously have their own agenda to put over and may or not be 100% open with the audience despite their claims of full transparency. I am concerned that the Chairman is speaking at the next 10000 Hours meeting and has yet to keep the current shareholders informed regards this matter.
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I listened with interest on Thursday and it sounds like a good basis for fans and the wider community to have control of a club. As I have read more, one aspect has come to mind - everybody assumes that the members who sign up are interested in SMFC. Suppose the community side take off and the number of members with a wider general interest grows. Suppose all the members of Kelburn Hockey or the Ladies Football take out memberships? Then there is the possibility of members with no interst of SMFC voting for a CIC board, which in effect controls SMFC. I am struggling to get my head round that aspect.
in the past you bought shares in the Club, tying you in to the Club, but here you may be simply taking out a membership in a community programme with nothing to tie you to the Club.
We all assume that the individual members and corporate members are their for their love of SMFC, what if the model changes? Richard spoke the other night about this being a bit of a social experiment. That is all well and good if we want to create a genuine community group, but as far as I'm concerned the funding and driving force is to take over the running of a Premier League Team.
Am I missing something, it is to take over the running of the SMFC that we are all think of as the first priority, with a wider community benfit being a secondary benefit, this is not a community project that just happens to have a footblall team tagged on.
I am also very concerned about the knowledge and professional ability within an enthusiastic bunch of amateurs of running a full time professional league team. Just supose Jimmy from West bank (where I sit) and his bunch of mates decide on having one as a board member. Perhaps a campaign on this very web site to get somebody appointed. All very well in terms of a democracy, they pay their money they get their votes is all well and good but do we realy want that as the motivation for being a board member? We may make comments about the existing BOD but I am sure none of us have ever questioned their professionalism in doing what is right for the club. Day to day, we may disagree with individual actions but their stewardship over the past 10 years cannot be doubted. How do we make sure we get board to take the team forward?
Bit like "One flew over the Cuckoo's Nest " where the loonies really take over the asylum.
Does the membership come with any better defined right. Saying we will get a vote for the board is all very well but what rights will a member have long term? We think we are supporters of SMFC but what happens as the make up of the membership changes. Will the SMFC fan who put his money in in day one be treated any differently to a "social" member who may join 2 - 3 years down the line as the community side grows?
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9 Corporate Members committed - in CIC docuent SG says all 5 consortium mebers are taking a Corporate Membership. If they included in 9 , that means only 4 truly new members committed so far?
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If you read the CIC document SG makes a comment that all members of consortium are taking a Corporate Membership. Good to see them putting something back in. Guess they were going to miss their seat in stand, probably didn't fancy West Bank as all the good seats are gone.
If that means they are 5 of the 9 commitments. Sounds like a good chance that they will be walking away with a tidy sum and at least one of them will be back on board of CIC. Like CIC idea but does that mean that in reality we only have 4 new commitments if 5 are from old BOD?
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another revelation hot on the heels of the news we apparently need at least THREE boards to run all things connected or loosely connected with SMFC it seems the BIG carrot dangled before the members is not as anyone had so far stated!!!
can't wait for this one to land just after all those direct debits have been signed up
10000 Hours Q&A Thread
in 10000Hours Archive
Posted
Not that I am aware. Link to company is
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/0937bb4672467d125d27a414a7224169/compdetails
Director is Richard.
Am hoping that 10000 hours will address my question rather than other forum members.
I think we are all searching for as much info as possible. Do not get me wrong, may be digging for full story but do actually like the idea and have pledged.