faraway saint Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 13 minutes ago, Magic Monkey said: On Ralston, aren't we always told that it was the facilities that helped to swing matters when we've signed decent players? That we have the training and development facilities of a top-six club? And it seems, to me, that in the batch of fantastic young players we've seen coming through over the past few years, that the investment has been justified. But the comparison to the Fakes is an interesting one. Perhaps we are playing the wrong game here - maybe we just let other teams develop players and save our money so we can assemble short-term squads and spend all our cash on wages and agents' fees. I don't agree with that, personally, but I would like us to find a way to exist comfortably in the top flight and also bring young talent through. Surely the two can co-exist at a club. It would be interesting to KNOW what Ralston costs. Generic terms from people don't really tell us anything. Difficult to measure if it's worth the investment TBH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 Our dedicated training complex has often been cited as a contributory factor when players opt to sign with the club. I'd be surprised if it doesn't have some influence (wouldn't want to overstate it, right enough - filthy lucre ruling supreme, no doubt). I spoke to Gus during the earth breaking ceremony for the new ground, and he said that the development of Ralston was hugely significant. He was clearly sick of trying to find parks that weren't entirely carpeted with broken glass and dug shite (white or otherwise). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 17 minutes ago, Magic Monkey said: On Ralston, aren't we always told that it was the facilities that helped to swing matters when we've signed decent players? That we have the training and development facilities of a top-six club? And it seems, to me, that in the batch of fantastic young players we've seen coming through over the past few years, that the investment has been justified. But the comparison to the Fakes is an interesting one. Perhaps we are playing the wrong game here - maybe we just let other teams develop players and save our money so we can assemble short-term squads and spend all our cash on wages and agents' fees. I don't agree with that, personally, but I would like us to find a way to exist comfortably in the top flight and also bring young talent through. Surely the two can co-exist at a club. Apologies, hadn't read your post before composing my last one. I concur (evidently). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Monkey Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) 44 minutes ago, faraway saint said: It would be interesting to KNOW what Ralston costs. Generic terms from people don't really tell us anything. Difficult to measure if it's worth the investment TBH. I agree with that, but it's hard to measure these things precisely without getting into the murky world of 'how much have we brought in in transfer fees', and then it all starts to sound a bit Dickson-esque. I'd prefer to put it down to a feeling, as vague as that may be. I do know that, for years (let's say back to our initial relegation in the 90s), we weren't producing any (or very many) kids of note, and we were also shite. Now we're shite*, but we've got a bit of a talent train coming through. I'd still rather the team was great, but it makes me feel very proud that we're producing kids that bigger teams want. * Surely the cost of Ralston can't have caused that, can it? On the list of 'what's gone wrong at SMFC since 2014', I'd guess that spending money on our training facilities wouldn't be that close to the top of the list. Edit to add: this article from a few years ago popped into my head. Basically talking about how the tide has turned in Manchester in terms of youth development of the opening of Man City's youth academy. https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/oct/24/manchester-city-united-youth-policy I'm obviously not comparing us to Man City - they have the resources to fight on both fronts in terms of massive first team wages and world-class youth development, but it shows importantly the biggest teams are treating this stuff. I'd be horrified if we moved away from having facilities of the standard that we currently have. Edited August 3, 2017 by Magic Monkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garf Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 If the club already owns the land across from the away stand, would it not make sense to punt the valuable land in Ralston, use some of the cash to build a state of the art synthetic pitch and a gym at St Mirren Park and bank the rest? Could even be another revenue stream for the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doakes Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, faraway saint said: It would be interesting to KNOW what Ralston costs. Generic terms from people don't really tell us anything. Difficult to measure if it's worth the investment TBH. Are you kidding? John McGinn, Kenny McLean, Stevie Mallan, Jack Baird, Mark McAusland, Sean Kelly, Jason Naismith, Kyle Magennis, Lewis Morgan, Kyle McAllister to name a few... Look how many players we've brought through into our first team. Last year they saved us from slipping into League 1 5 star elite status too. Not to be sniffed at Edited August 3, 2017 by Doakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul torfason Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 On 11 July 2017 at 9:46 PM, scottd said: that massive amount of land at ralston must be worth a few million to a housing development ,and probably cost half that too build same thing across road from greenhill road,id Imagine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReturnOf isma is god Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 1 hour ago, faraway saint said: It would be interesting to KNOW what Ralston costs. Generic terms from people don't really tell us anything. Difficult to measure if it's worth the investment TBH. Pal 2 products of ralston have Scotland caps that alone is worth the investment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 8 minutes ago, Saint Garf said: If the club already owns the land across from the away stand, would it not make sense to punt the valuable land in Ralston, use some of the cash to build a state of the art synthetic pitch and a gym at St Mirren Park and bank the rest? Could even be another revenue stream for the club. The Ralston land isn't ours to punt. We have a long lease on it, and there might be a cost if we look to relinquish that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyM Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 1 hour ago, faraway saint said: It would be interesting to KNOW what Ralston costs. Generic terms from people don't really tell us anything. Difficult to measure if it's worth the investment TBH. A fair point. I guess the comparisons that have been made in recent years are with what we had before Ralston (searching for public parks, removing dog shit etc) and having a dedicated facility at all. That is a no brainer, surely? The more difficult decision is to compare Ralston with a, perhaps, more modest arrangement such as an all weather pitch at Greenhill. That wasn't an option when we first got Ralston, but is perhaps more of an option now? It might be desirable and financially sensible to develop a training complex within/alongside the ground at Greenhill now that all weather pitch technology has improved and the space to grow at Greenhill is (may be) available. Personally, I think it is essential that we have a dedicated training facility/resource which Ralston currently provides, but I have no idea how a cost/benefit analysis would work out if the alternative was a new facility centered at Greenhill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 Leyton Orient have announced that they have sold 3500 season tickets, a 16 year high. More than our entire average attendance last year - so much for their gates suffering. Pretty sure they will still be able to pay more than us, as they will have been last year. As for it not being a commercial bonanza: it was 33% more than we got. That is significant whatever the underlying figures. It makes no difference if the underlying figures are 1m or 100m: the fact is that their revenue was a third greater than ours. At least you were right about Davis... Don't shatter peoples illusions. Billy is on his way! I loved watching Zeefuik playing alongside Osman Sow. Big hefty battering ram who just barrelled through defenders and loved to get a shot away. Would be a dream signing to be honest. Bit late back to the party...and it is, as I said, all academic as we were signing Harry anyway.On your post, "pretty sure" means little in the great scheme of things.The underlying attendance figure is affected greatly by the corresponding TV revenue and prize money, of which ours is far greater.All of this is largely conjecture on both sides, all because we were told Davis would definitely go to Orient as they would pay more...[emoji41] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Doakes said: Are you kidding? John McGinn, Kenny McLean, Stevie Mallan, Jack Baird, Mark McAusland, Sean Kelly, Jason Naismith, Kyle Magennis, Lewis Morgan, Kyle McAllister to name a few... Look how many players we've brought through into our first team. Last year they saved us from slipping into League 1 5 star elite status too. Not to be sniffed at Eh, and how much does it cost? I never said it WASN'T value, just trying to establish the running cost. You've made an massive assumption these players would not have been with us if we hadn't had Ralston. Edited August 3, 2017 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, ReturnOf isma is god said: Pal 2 products of ralston have Scotland caps that alone is worth the investment Would that be the two we sold for "peanuts" and caused weeks of angst on the forum? PS Back in your box. Edited August 3, 2017 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 9 hours ago, Chris said: Leyton Orient have announced that they have sold 3500 season tickets, a 16 year high. More than our entire average attendance last year - so much for their gates suffering. Pretty sure they will still be able to pay more than us, as they will have been last year. As for it not being a commercial bonanza: it was 33% more than we got. That is significant whatever the underlying figures. It makes no difference if the underlying figures are 1m or 100m: the fact is that their revenue was a third greater than ours. At least you were right about Davis... Fair points but the revenue in tickets book sales has to be balanced by any debt, higher wages and other running costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReturnOf isma is god Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) 29 minutes ago, faraway saint said: Would that be the two we sold for "peanuts" and caused weeks of angst on the forum? PS Back in your box. We didn't sell mcginn he ran away cause we got relegated and someone kinda stuck a spear in him Edited August 3, 2017 by ReturnOf isma is god Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReturnOf isma is god Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 Quinn's away reckon we'll have a new striker In soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transfer news Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, ReturnOf isma is god said: Quinn's away reckon we'll have a new striker In soon Good. I've been waiting to long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReturnOf isma is god Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) 37 minutes ago, faraway saint said: Would that be the two we sold for "peanuts" and caused weeks of angst on the forum? PS Back in your box. Also don't really see why it's the youth developments fault that board is letting players go on the cheap, ralston is holding up its End of the deal by producing quality players they we're let by the old board by under valuing players Edited August 3, 2017 by ReturnOf isma is god Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munoz Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, ReturnOf isma is god said: Also don't really see why it's the youth developments fault that board is letting players go on the cheap, ralston is holding up its End of the deal by producing quality players they we're let by the old board by under valuing players Spot on . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 Maybe the good residents of Ralston will have a whip round to get ride of us since our players language is more suited to council schemes [emoji48] As for the faked, do they not have small pitches in front of their main stand that they train on ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Soctty said: Bit late back to the party...and it is, as I said, all academic as we were signing Harry anyway. On your post, "pretty sure" means little in the great scheme of things. The underlying attendance figure is affected greatly by the corresponding TV revenue and prize money, of which ours is far greater. All of this is largely conjecture on both sides, all because we were told Davis would definitely go to Orient as they would pay more... You have no idea how much TV or prize money either gets, but even on the figures you estimated - in St MIrren's favour - Orient would have earned enough from their extra gate money to cover that gap and then some. You even admitted eventually that Orient would have been able to pay more than us last year, and that is almost certainly true again this year as a result of their significantly greater season ticket sales, which will translate again into significantly greater attendances (for a higher number of games). I didn't pretend to know anything about what Davis would do (although I am pleasantly surprised he has returned), but was simply pointing out that you were wrong to suggest they were not a club who could pay more than us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MenstrieSaint Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 There is potential for the Council , Sports Development Scotland , A House Building Company , St Mirren , Ralston Residents Association and whoever we lease Ralston from to come together and work a solution out where Ralson is developed into housing and training pitches are developed on land next to the ground ( probably as p[art of the first phase of the new sports village ) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garf Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Drew said: The Ralston land isn't ours to punt. We have a long lease on it, and there might be a cost if we look to relinquish that. Ahh, didn't realise that. Makes sense though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Chris said: You have no idea how much TV or prize money either gets, but even on the figures you estimated - in St MIrren's favour - Orient would have earned enough from their extra gate money to cover that gap and then some. You even admitted eventually that Orient would have been able to pay more than us last year, and that is almost certainly true again this year as a result of their significantly greater season ticket sales, which will translate again into significantly greater attendances (for a higher number of games). I didn't pretend to know anything about what Davis would do (although I am pleasantly surprised he has returned), but was simply pointing out that you were wrong to suggest they were not a club who could pay more than us! You haven't proven I'm wrong to suggest they wouldn't be able to pay more than us, despite weeks of trying. I suggest this ends now - nobody really wants to read any of this any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, Saint Garf said: Makes sense though. Now there's something you'll seldom read in response to one of my posts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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