Speculation Thread

[beyond our ken]

6 hours ago, Albanian Buddy said:

He is only following his heritage. Same as Ray Houghton, Bernie Slaven and Tony Cascarino (🤥). 

McGeady was perfectly entitled under the international laws of the game to play for the RoI. 
 

He played 93 times for RoI and at two major tournaments which Scotland never qualified for. 
 

None of which I disagree with, although i think you would like me to.  My point stands, you can't display racist behaviour towards people of the same race as yourself

That doesn't mean I condone the abuse, which must have happened since it was in the record.

Edited July 23, 2023 by beyond our ken

[Albanian Buddy]

1 hour ago, beyond our ken said:

None of which I disagree with, although i think you would like me to.  My point stands, you can't display racist behaviour towards people of the same race as yourself

That doesn't mean I condone the abuse, which must have happened since it was in the record.

“Racism is when a person is treated worse, excluded, disadvantaged, harassed, bullied, humiliated or degraded because of their race or ethnicity.”

“An ethnicity or ethnic group is a grouping of people who identify with each other on the basis of perceived shared attributes that distinguish them from other groups. Those attributes can include common sets of traditions, ancestry, language, history, society, nation, religion, or social treatment within their residing area. The term ethnicity is often used interchangeably with the term nation, particularly in cases of ethnic nationalism.”

The abuse regarding his Irish heritage (my words) was completely unacceptable.  It’s the type of behaviour left to racist and sectarian bigots - not St Mirren fans. 

Do you honestly believe that incident with McGeady at Love St never happened?

It was caught on camera and witnessed by Celtic club officials, security staff and the police.

It was abuse. It was unacceptable. 
There is no place for such prejudice at our club or in our society. 

[pod]

Think this topic has lost it's way. 

[beyond our ken]

57 minutes ago, Albanian Buddy said:

“Racism is when a person is treated worse, excluded, disadvantaged, harassed, bullied, humiliated or degraded because of their race or ethnicity.”

“An ethnicity or ethnic group is a grouping of people who identify with each other on the basis of perceived shared attributes that distinguish them from other groups. Those attributes can include common sets of traditions, ancestry, language, history, society, nation, religion, or social treatment within their residing area. The term ethnicity is often used interchangeably with the term nation, particularly in cases of ethnic nationalism.”

The abuse regarding his Irish heritage (my words) was completely unacceptable.  It’s the type of behaviour left to racist and sectarian bigots - not St Mirren fans. 

Do you honestly believe that incident with McGeady at Love St never happened?

It was caught on camera and witnessed by Celtic club officials, security staff and the police.

It was abuse. It was unacceptable. 
There is no place for such prejudice at our club or in our society. 

On the term "Mickey" or "Mick"

"Technically speaking it’s not a racial slur. For something to be a racial slur, it would be a pejorative used to degrade a racial group. Irish people are an ethnic group. The race is White/European/Caucasian. So with that out of the way let’s look at why it is indeed an ethnicity-based slur to insult and degrade people of Irish descent. The cultural and historic ties between the Scots and the Irish are deep rooted; everything from the language, people, customs, food are connected. The word Scot (and therefore Scotland) originate from a prominent tribe of Gaels who lived in the Irish provinces of Ulster and Connaught, the Scothii. The Scothii migrated to modern Scotland, then called Pictland, where they then interbred with those who already inhabited it, the Picts, descendents of Norse and Anglo settlers in the area. They formed their own kingdom for a while called Dalriada, which included large parts of their ancestral homeland on the island of Ireland. They eventually spread throughout Pictland, and both Dalriada and Pictland united to form the Kingdom of Scotland. Therefore, Scots are essentially displaced Irishmen"

So with all that in mind, unless it can be proven that those who delivered the insults were of a different race or ethnicity to McGeady or most of our good selves, then this was a personal insult issued to and from people of the same or similar racial and ethnic background.  That doesn't make it OK, it just means that it is unpleasant, personal, intended to be hurtful and in this context not racist.   I am still on good terms and happy to meet, however rarely it happens these days,  with a guy who used to refer to me and some of our group of mutual friends as "mickey rebel bastards".  It was funny and I'd still laugh today despite being mostly of Irish descent.  

St Mirren fans should be careful not to jump wholeheartedly on anything the record prints, in this case they described McGeady and his Celtic team-mates as "old-firm" as they tried to stoke the fires of faux-outrage and spread the debate.  One person shouts one word and the record has a headline about "racist" st mirren fans and 15 years later we are still wielding their rod on our own backs.  What a laugh!  We are starting to resemble the German guy in Harry Enfield who perpetually apologised for the war.

And Needham's comments about wishing the drowning of scores of Rangers fans are every bit as bad as that one guy's insult a decade and a half ago, even if he didn't mean it.  It was abusive without being racist and we don't all need to cream our jeans (genes?) about it just to prove how un-racist we are.

As I said, it undermines any anti-racist stance to declare things that are really not racist to be racist abuse.

 

 

[beyond our ken]

6 hours ago, Albanian Buddy said:

Agreed.

Our current goalie was perfectly happy to be considered by England for long enough.

 

 

I wonder whether they went to Hampden and abused Rioch, McCall, Gough and many others of turning their back on their specific country of birth. 

 

 

That bit is just silly.

 

[ALBIONSAINT]

You two gonna get ta 

[stlucifer]

8 hours ago, beyond our ken said:

On the term "Mickey" or "Mick"

"Technically speaking it’s not a racial slur. For something to be a racial slur, it would be a pejorative used to degrade a racial group. Irish people are an ethnic group. The race is White/European/Caucasian. So with that out of the way let’s look at why it is indeed an ethnicity-based slur to insult and degrade people of Irish descent. The cultural and historic ties between the Scots and the Irish are deep rooted; everything from the language, people, customs, food are connected. The word Scot (and therefore Scotland) originate from a prominent tribe of Gaels who lived in the Irish provinces of Ulster and Connaught, the Scothii. The Scothii migrated to modern Scotland, then called Pictland, where they then interbred with those who already inhabited it, the Picts, descendents of Norse and Anglo settlers in the area. They formed their own kingdom for a while called Dalriada, which included large parts of their ancestral homeland on the island of Ireland. They eventually spread throughout Pictland, and both Dalriada and Pictland united to form the Kingdom of Scotland. Therefore, Scots are essentially displaced Irishmen"

So with all that in mind, unless it can be proven that those who delivered the insults were of a different race or ethnicity to McGeady or most of our good selves, then this was a personal insult issued to and from people of the same or similar racial and ethnic background.  That doesn't make it OK, it just means that it is unpleasant, personal, intended to be hurtful and in this context not racist.   I am still on good terms and happy to meet, however rarely it happens these days,  with a guy who used to refer to me and some of our group of mutual friends as "mickey rebel bastards".  It was funny and I'd still laugh today despite being mostly of Irish descent.  

St Mirren fans should be careful not to jump wholeheartedly on anything the record prints, in this case they described McGeady and his Celtic team-mates as "old-firm" as they tried to stoke the fires of faux-outrage and spread the debate.  One person shouts one word and the record has a headline about "racist" st mirren fans and 15 years later we are still wielding their rod on our own backs.  What a laugh!  We are starting to resemble the German guy in Harry Enfield who perpetually apologised for the war.

And Needham's comments about wishing the drowning of scores of Rangers fans are every bit as bad as that one guy's insult a decade and a half ago, even if he didn't mean it.  It was abusive without being racist and we don't all need to cream our jeans (genes?) about it just to prove how un-racist we are.

As I said, it undermines any anti-racist stance to declare things that are really not racist to be racist abuse.

 

 

I believe the term "Mic" simply comes from the fact Irish surnames are usually Mc whereas Scots surnames are "Mac" so I can't see where this term can be deemed a slur.

[linwood buddie]

My missus was once called a grape , the half wit that called her it had a mouth full of marbles🤪

[st jock]

Soooo.....any signings imminent? New striker? Hope he ( or she) is not Irish. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇮🇪

[Sue Denim]

25 minutes ago, st jock said:

Soooo.....any signings imminent? New striker? Hope he ( or she) is not Irish. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇮🇪

Or Israeli 

Any other countries with sensitive political situations that we should avoid signing players from?

Russia? Ukraine? Saudi? Afghanistan? 

[pod]

2 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

Or Israeli 

Any other countries with sensitive political situations that we should avoid signing players from?

 

England. 

[The Original 59er]

Or Venezuela, Pakistan, China or at least another half dozen countries with "issues"

[Sue Denim]

Declan Gallagher to Dundee United

[magnus]

One of the strangest transfer windows ever. All 3 centre backs leave and one comes back. Certainly not boring.

[munoz]

Not overly fussed if DG leaves, especially if we get some sort of fee for him.

 

[billyg]

SR just said on radio " could be a busy next 48 hours " transfer wise !

[pod]

6 minutes ago, billyg said:

SR just said on radio " could be a busy next 48 hours " transfer wise !

So long as it's not all one way. 

[linwood buddie]

13 minutes ago, billyg said:

SR just said on radio " could be a busy next 48 hours " transfer wise !

He’s just winding us all up , we are still waiting for our mystery striker from last week and now this , where does it all end🤯

[pod]

2 hours ago, linwood buddie said:

He’s just winding us all up , we are still waiting for our mystery striker from last week and now this , where does it all end🤯

Tomorrow apparently. 

[Ethan]

2 hours ago, linwood buddie said:

He’s just winding us all up , we are still waiting for our mystery striker from last week and now this , where does it all end🤯

Robbo is becoming that crazy old uncle who tells lots of jokes but none of them funny. 

Until I see scarves in the air I wont be fooled by his patter. 

[elvis]

James Bolton former Plymouth defender signs 1 year deal.

[ALBIONSAINT]

1 hour ago, elvis said:

James Bolton former Plymouth defender signs 1 year deal.

More of a fact than a speculation 🤔

[Saint@Johnstone]

I think Robinson is making a bad job with his signings and this will be his undoing. They all seem to be made of chocolate. Can see a change of manager in the not too distant. Ninety odd minutes to see off a non league team. Pretty pathetic. 

[JJ McG]

1 hour ago, Saint@Johnstone said:

I think Robinson is making a bad job with his signings and this will be his undoing. They all seem to be made of chocolate. Can see a change of manager in the not too distant. Ninety odd minutes to see off a non league team. Pretty pathetic. 

I’m not sure if this is a parody account or not?

[Swiss_Saint]

1 hour ago, Saint@Johnstone said:

I think Robinson is making a bad job with his signings and this will be his undoing. They all seem to be made of chocolate. Can see a change of manager in the not too distant. Ninety odd minutes to see off a non league team. Pretty pathetic.

Even by some saints fans standards on here this has got to be a joke. Even Elvis is more positive that that drivel and he slits his wrists before during and after every game.