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The Club Buy Out - 10000 Hours


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Anyone else wondering just what Mr. Atkinson is up to. Nearly a year has gone by as he sits in an office at Greenhill Road causing chaos and upsetting all around him, including I greatly suspect Alan Provan. Did he try to screw more margin from Alan until he had to say 'sorry no more' ? I think we deserve to know

Mr. Atkinson are you listening ???

When is this so called deal going through ?? I thought the deadline was March - well that's in THREE WEEKS TIME.

It is true that you intend to try and get about £2,000,000 of public money to buy out the directors of a private company ?

Is it true that LOANS are involved - so here we are BACK IN DEBT AGAIN.

I have been a supporter for nearly 50 years, but why should public money be used to buy shares on Mr. Atkinson's behalf (and don't try and tell me its for the community) so that he can strut the stage as a Premier Leage Football Club director ???

Many more questions to come - how about some answers Mr. Atkinson ?

Do you remember Reg Brearly ????? Can someone tell me what the difference was - Oh yes at least Brearly was using some of his own money !

Felt this deserved it's own thread. I have moved the above quote from the Provan Sports thread

We all know what Stuart Gilmour did to save the club from oblivion. I would like to think the same man would not be selling the club in a position of debt to the club. Gilmour has publicly said that the club would only be sold to the right people. Call me naive but I have faith in Stuart Gilmour when it comes the future of the club. Though maybe not his choice of manager

However you have a valid point wanting to know some facts on the buy out. I''m a bit surprised share holders are not asking more questions on the take over. Or at least the potential new owners don't come out and tell us plans and hopes for a bright new future for St Mirren football club.

Gordon Scott came onto this forum and said he would give us his side of the story as to why he stepped down from the board. I have no idea of the in's and out's but from the outside looking in this man looked like the real deal. A link with the fans to the board room during the building of the stadium. Gordon Scott impressed me and I would like to know his own thoughts as a major share holder of the club.

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Felt this deserved it's own thread. I have moved the above quote from the Provan Sports thread

We all know what Stuart Gilmour did to save the club from oblivion. I would like to think the same man would not be selling the club in a position of debt to the club. Gilmour has publicly said that the club would only be sold to the right people. Call me naive but I have faith in Stuart Gilmour when it comes the future of the club. Though maybe not his choice of manager

However you have a valid point wanting to know some facts on the buy out. I''m a bit surprised share holders are not asking more questions on the take over. Or at least the potential new owners don't come out and tell us plans and hopes for a bright new future for St Mirren football club.

Gordon Scott came onto this forum and said he would give us his side of the story as to why he stepped down from the board. I have no idea of the in's and out's but from the outside looking in this man looked like the real deal. A link with the fans to the board room during the building of the stadium. Gordon Scott impressed me and I would like to know his own thoughts as a major share holder of the club.

The quote you use to open this thread is pretty loaded. The questions might be reasonable enough, but the tone in which they are delivered and the pejorative language and reference to the bold Reg aren't helpful.

I think we can anticipate some formal communication from the club in terms of a number of these questions over the course of the next 2 - 3 weeks. I'm pretty sceptical, it has to be said, but I think we should reserve judgement until we've heard what Atkinson and any other relevant parties have to say.

When I say I'm sceptical, I'm not thinking so much about the motives of the people involved, more about what impact any changes might have, and the extent to which we've all become a bit weary of hearing people talking the talk, but failing to deliver where it really counts - I'm thinking of our manager here, and the 'new direction' our Chairman spoke about when MacPherson was bagged. It is difficult to be anything other than sceptical. I'll not lapse into cynicism just yet, though.

Let's hear what Atkinson and colleague have to say before branding the guys as shysters <_<

Edited by Drew
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Felt this deserved it's own thread. I have moved the above quote from the Provan Sports thread

We all know what Stuart Gilmour did to save the club from oblivion. I would like to think the same man would not be selling the club in a position of debt to the club. Gilmour has publicly said that the club would only be sold to the right people. Call me naive but I have faith in Stuart Gilmour when it comes the future of the club. Though maybe not his choice of manager

However you have a valid point wanting to know some facts on the buy out. I''m a bit surprised share holders are not asking more questions on the take over. Or at least the potential new owners don't come out and tell us plans and hopes for a bright new future for St Mirren football club.

Gordon Scott came onto this forum and said he would give us his side of the story as to why he stepped down from the board. I have no idea of the in's and out's but from the outside looking in this man looked like the real deal. A link with the fans to the board room during the building of the stadium. Gordon Scott impressed me and I would like to know his own thoughts as a major share holder of the club.

I hear that our potential new owners think that going down wouldn't be too bad. If so then lets chuck it now before we the fans pour anymore money into watchin a club that has stagnated big time. When we made the move to the new park we had to move on the pitch too. Sure setanta has hurt many clubs however' look at Inverness and st.johnstone two seemingly financially secure teams who have much better squads, manager and points total than us. They are prospering whilst we consistantly struggle. Why is this? Are they so much bigger than us?

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I hear that our potential new owners think that going down wouldn't be too bad. If so then lets chuck it now before we the fans pour anymore money into watchin a club that has stagnated big time. When we made the move to the new park we had to move on the pitch too. Sure setanta has hurt many clubs however' look at Inverness and st.johnstone two seemingly financially secure teams who have much better squads, manager and points total than us. They are prospering whilst we consistantly struggle. Why is this? Are they so much bigger than us?

Already dealt with the claims of resounding success at St Johnstone. Their windfall came when they were right in the shitter. Despite the windfall and financial security and training ground they still managed to get relegated to the 1st division not once but twice. We beat them out the 1st division despite still having our debt in place and them spending what seemed like fortunes to us then on shite players and hopeless managers.

Caley are lucky enough to have some fairly wealthy investors in their club. Despite that the club itself is still not that healthy financially. They had a chance of a new stadium a few seasons back and the deal fell through. In terms of playing staff they can call in the external financers to fund players if and when they need them.

Our current financial position is nowhere near enough to gaurantee our SPL status. It has given us some security for the future. The BoD has rightly opted for investing in a sustainable club rather than short term glory. That has always been SG's goal and that is the promise he made to supporters and that is what he has delivered. He has looked for new owners that will carry on that strategy.

I doubt that the new owners will want to get relegated any more than we would - although the away days are better and winning now and then is nice too - what they will be doing is structuring the club so that it has a plan B should the relegation actually happen. Having a view that relegation can be managed is very different from having a strategy were relegation has to be avoided at all costs as it will mean the end of the club. Should we be relegated they would have the job of telling St Mirren employees that they are being made redundant - they might have to cut back on many of their community initiatives, the operations at Ralston would need to be cut back too. Relegation would be manageable, but they certainly won't be hoping it happens. :rolleyes:

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Can you someone explain the whole story here from A to Z. I have no idea what you are all talking about.

When is the new owner coming in?

Are we certain who the new owner is going to be? Are talks more or less done?

What is this thing about getting a 2million pound grant or loan? Has the new owner worked out a way to get 2m quid from the public sector to fund the club? Surely grounds for celebration if it is a grant, no?

Can I set up Abercorn again and get a 2m quid grant then?

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Can you someone explain the whole story here from A to Z. I have no idea what you are all talking about.

When is the new owner coming in?

Are we certain who the new owner is going to be? Are talks more or less done?

What is this thing about getting a 2million pound grant or loan? Has the new owner worked out a way to get 2m quid from the public sector to fund the club? Surely grounds for celebration if it is a grant, no?

Can I set up Abercorn again and get a 2m quid grant then?

I would also appreciate this.

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I don't think the speculation is helpful at the moment. There will be an announcement coming from the club in the not too distant future. There is too much bollox information flying around about it just now, and it is in a environment of pissed off supporters. Not long now and all the good stuff will be out in public. :)

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The history and background so far;

Stewart Gilmour has joined forces with Alan Marshall, Bryan McCausland, George Campbell and Evelyn Purves (widow of the late Jim) to offer for sale their combined stake in the club (52%)

The other major shareholder who was on the board was Gordon Scott who made two separate offers to buy this controlling interest in the club, his offers were rejected by the selling consortium. Gordon resigned from the club and has invested his money into property in Vegas.

Richard Atkinson is the head of a consortium who made an approach to buy the club last year. This consortium have agreed a fee to purchase the club, for £2m.

The model being used to purchase the club is complex and has never been done before but suffice to say Richard and his consortium are not investing their own money to buy the football club, instead they are seeking to fund this through grants/loans and from forming business partnerships within the local community.

The end goal is that the football club would then become owned by a Community Interest Company (CiC). A CiC can attract grants and gets breaks in terms of the tax it pays, and any profits made by the CiC need to be invested back in. The CiC would aim to generate revenue through other means over and above the traditional football club we have today.

I think the vision is to use the infrastructure the club has now (Ralston and St.Mirren Park) and the brand, and the support within the local community, to do this.

Since the funding applications take a long time to go through, and since Richard and his partners have no previous experience of running a football club, and since there are no other interested parties looking to buy the club, it was agreed that Richard and Chris Stewart (one of the consortium members) should join the board so that they could see how the club was run and experience the different and unique challenges which face football clubs versus "traditional businesses".

Similarly this allowed them to bring some fresh impetus to the boardroom and this has begun to manifest itself now with a few changes being made, the most recent of which I guess is the decision to move from Provans to a different merchandising model.

I don't know how far the funding applications have got, I don't know when they are likely to go through (or not as the case may be) and I don't know what happens if they don't get the funding.

That is the situation as it currently stands as far as I am aware.

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The history and background so far;

Stewart Gilmour has joined forces with Alan Marshall, Bryan McCausland, George Campbell and Evelyn Purves (widow of the late Jim) to offer for sale their combined stake in the club (52%)

The other major shareholder who was on the board was Gordon Scott who made two separate offers to buy this controlling interest in the club, his offers were rejected by the selling consortium. Gordon resigned from the club and has invested his money into property in Vegas.

Richard Atkinson is the head of a consortium who made an approach to buy the club last year. This consortium have agreed a fee to purchase the club, for £2m.

The model being used to purchase the club is complex and has never been done before but suffice to say Richard and his consortium are not investing their own money to buy the football club, instead they are seeking to fund this through grants/loans and from forming business partnerships within the local community.

The end goal is that the football club would then become owned by a Community Interest Company (CiC). A CiC can attract grants and gets breaks in terms of the tax it pays, and any profits made by the CiC need to be invested back in. The CiC would aim to generate revenue through other means over and above the traditional football club we have today.

I think the vision is to use the infrastructure the club has now (Ralston and St.Mirren Park) and the brand, and the support within the local community, to do this.

Since the funding applications take a long time to go through, and since Richard and his partners have no previous experience of running a football club, and since there are no other interested parties looking to buy the club, it was agreed that Richard and Chris Stewart (one of the consortium members) should join the board so that they could see how the club was run and experience the different and unique challenges which face football clubs versus "traditional businesses".

Similarly this allowed them to bring some fresh impetus to the boardroom and this has begun to manifest itself now with a few changes being made, the most recent of which I guess is the decision to move from Provans to a different merchandising model.

I don't know how far the funding applications have got, I don't know when they are likely to go through (or not as the case may be) and I don't know what happens if they don't get the funding.

That is the situation as it currently stands as far as I am aware.

Thanks for that Information Div which should stop dead all the silly speculation.

I hope the deal goes through because we are never going to see a Russian or Arab tycoon come to St Mirren to off load silly money.So the idea to generate money in other ways has to be welcomed.

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Thanks for that Information Div which should stop dead all the silly speculation.

I hope the deal goes through because we are never going to see a Russian or Arab tycoon come to St Mirren to off load silly money.So the idea to generate money in other ways has to be welcomed.

But you haven't welcomed it, LS. :unsure:

You've been really unhappy about the local community club not continuing its deal with a local shop...

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For what it's worth, Stenhousemuir is already a CIC. Here's some info from their website about what it entails:

http://www.stenhousemuirfc.com/cic/

"Can a CIC revert to its original status?

Once a company becomes a CIC it cannot return to its original status as a normal company; its only option is to become a full Charity."

Thanks Stu,

I don't know much about this sort of thing, but this quote from your link strikes me as being slightly worrying? :unsure:

What happens then, if this move turns out be a disaster? Do we become a charity case or do we cease to exist?

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But you haven't welcomed it, LS. :unsure:

You've been really unhappy about the local community club not continuing its deal with a local shop...

Div has wrote what is known I don't think we will get any more information than that at this time.

I have not written I am against a community club at any time :blink:

I have written dropping Provan Sports to me was not good. It is a local community shop who supported a local community club. That does not mean I am against a community club. :blink:

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I think the main points to get across are that if this sale goes through it is not going to mean that Danny Lennon is going to get a big transfer kitty to play with.

The club will, as it has done for well over a decade under the current board, have to live within it's means.

As a club with 2,500 season ticket holders and an average gate of 4,500 in the SPL that means we have a very small budget to play with.

The "new direction" the selling board members mentioned last summer when bringing in Danny meant a very big focus on youth development and bringing through our own talent.

The board see this as the only long term sustainable model for a club of our size and if you look around at the likes of Dundee, Livingston and Gretna there are real life recent examples of why the "sugar daddy" approach is simply not a viable long term proposition for a club of our size.

The board, rightly or wrongly, saw Danny Lennon as a better candidate for taking forward this youth development strategy along with David Longwell than they did with Gus.

That all said, the new owners are looking to increase the commercial revenue generated by the club. Motherwell are not a significantly bigger club than us yet they generate over £1m a year more revenue than we do. This is seen as an example of the sort of growth we might be able to enjoy if we start to make better use of the fantastic infrastructure the current board (and Gordon) have brought to the club.

If we generate more revenue, in theory, the team should benefit as a result.

The club would be "asset locked" under the proposed sale which would mean it could never be sold on to a private party or parties again, the controlling CiC would be made up of St.Mirren supporters and business partners, whilst the football club itself will have it's own board who deal with the day to day running of the football side of the business.

The aim is for St.Mirren to become much more than just the football club as it is today. Whether than means we are more successful on the pitch remains to be seen, but it does mean that St.Mirren will be around for my kids, and their kids, and their kids, and their kids to enjoy (or get thoroughly depressed as the case may be !).

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Thanks Stu,

I don't know much about this sort of thing, but this quote from your link strikes me as being slightly worrying? :unsure:

What happens then, if this move turns out be a disaster? Do we become a charity case or do we cease to exist?

Being a CIC can only enhance the club and provide additional funding opportunities, whilst providing protection from asset strippers taking a controlling share in the club. There is no downside in terms of how the club operates, just protection and funding opportunities.

For example, the club has additional ground across the Avenue. It could decide to put some form of community facility in place there that could attract a shitload of grants. Under the companies current status it would not be allowed to apply for the grants. Grants would be available for things such as training faclilities open to the public, social clubs, community events, etc.

As well as the opportunity to access grants previously unavailable to us we can also utilise CIC financing schemes.

There is no down side, but it won't stop some dafty trying to invent some.

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Herbie,

Sorry can't quote your post on mobile format.

I think it's different if we're owned by the CIG and not actually the CIG as Div says?

I've switched off anytime someone starts to talk about it, far too complicated for me!!

Edited by davidg
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Herbie,

Sorry can't quote your post on mobile format.

I think its different if we're owned by the CIG and not actually the CIG as Div says?

I've switched off anytime someone stars to talk about it, far too complicated for me!!

Fair enough. It's all a bit of a head-f**k.... :blink:

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Div has wrote what is known I don't think we will get any more information than that at this time.

I have not written I am against a community club at any time :blink:

I have written dropping Provan Sports to me was not good. It is a local community shop who supported a local community club. That does not mean I am against a community club. :blink:

You did not welcome the club stopping its deal with Provans. I was pointing out that when you agreed that "the idea to generate money in other ways has to be welcomed." was the opposite of that.

You either welcome generating money in other ways (which may be painful for local businesses) or you maintain the status quo.

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The history and background so far;

Stewart Gilmour has joined forces with Alan Marshall, Bryan McCausland, George Campbell and Evelyn Purves (widow of the late Jim) to offer for sale their combined stake in the club (52%)

The other major shareholder who was on the board was Gordon Scott who made two separate offers to buy this controlling interest in the club, his offers were rejected by the selling consortium. Gordon resigned from the club and has invested his money into property in Vegas.

Richard Atkinson is the head of a consortium who made an approach to buy the club last year. This consortium have agreed a fee to purchase the club, for £2m.

The model being used to purchase the club is complex and has never been done before but suffice to say Richard and his consortium are not investing their own money to buy the football club, instead they are seeking to fund this through grants/loans and from forming business partnerships within the local community.

The end goal is that the football club would then become owned by a Community Interest Company (CiC). A CiC can attract grants and gets breaks in terms of the tax it pays, and any profits made by the CiC need to be invested back in. The CiC would aim to generate revenue through other means over and above the traditional football club we have today.

I think the vision is to use the infrastructure the club has now (Ralston and St.Mirren Park) and the brand, and the support within the local community, to do this.

Since the funding applications take a long time to go through, and since Richard and his partners have no previous experience of running a football club, and since there are no other interested parties looking to buy the club, it was agreed that Richard and Chris Stewart (one of the consortium members) should join the board so that they could see how the club was run and experience the different and unique challenges which face football clubs versus "traditional businesses".

Similarly this allowed them to bring some fresh impetus to the boardroom and this has begun to manifest itself now with a few changes being made, the most recent of which I guess is the decision to move from Provans to a different merchandising model.

I don't know how far the funding applications have got, I don't know when they are likely to go through (or not as the case may be) and I don't know what happens if they don't get the funding.

That is the situation as it currently stands as far as I am aware.

Really good post Div. Some of that is news to ne.

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You did not welcome the club stopping its deal with Provans. I was pointing out that when you agreed that "the idea to generate money in other ways has to be welcomed." was the opposite of that.

You either welcome generating money in other ways (which may be painful for local businesses) or you maintain the status quo.

Bluto my fellow buddie , yes you are correct about Provans. I wrote I found it strange that a community club should drop a community business who has supported the club for years in favour of a high street chain which is being suggested. That I cant understand under the banner - St Mirren community club.The club knows the fans have a good relationship with Provans so I would have thought some sort of explanation as to why it was changed would have been good PR. Is a community club not a more open club. I would have thought so

The new proposals are a bit of a head buster having read the Stenhousemuir article. If it means safe guarding the club and generating more income then I'm sure all will be in favour of CIC.

so

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