The Club Buy Out - 10000 Hours

[ck1]

Stu, these guys at the critical end of the process at the moment. As I said above a thread of this nature is unhelpful as it was always going to generate hysterical speculation, which is exactly what we have got. A Q&A on the forum would be a waste of time and would only lead to every man and his care in the community allocated dug weighing in with all sorts of emotive bollox - not to mention trouble makers from other clubs jumping in to add their flavour of shite stirring. This thread has already run up a few pages over a few hours and all that has come out of it is more wild speculation. The last thing the key players at our club should be wasting their time on at this point in time is Internet flamers.

There are two process running in parallel and it is clear from the posts that there is a very limited understanding of either process from those trying to demonstrate their "expertise".

The BoD will release information as and when it is appropriate. Wild speculation or half understood facts could damage the process. The best thing the support can do at the moment is be supportive and let them get on with it.

There are no negatives in relation to the CIC status. There are shedloads of positives.

A live Q&A for genuinely concerned supporters might be appropriate, but I would rather the BoD focus on making it happen and we trust them to get on with it.

Can you tell me how you as in your words who is not a "genuinely concerned supporter" in my view if you support St.Mirren then you are genuinely concerned.......or is it only those with the most posts on here who think they experts or think they have the inside knowledge .

From a genuinely concerned supporter

[Seaside Nipper]

This. I am sure animals has some good points to make and has some value to add to the debate, but frankly I stopped caring about that when he adopted his "I am significantly better than all of you f**kwits" approach.

Animals is not Stuart Dickson by the way.

acht...............there seemed to be such a simmering raging likeness

[St. Sid]

It is not my accounts I was referring to but that of a company whose accounts I am preparing, and looking at the viability of a fairly complex business plan.

I do this quite a lot - it's called a job, you should try it sometime instead of spending your life on here defending the financial plans of someone else. Especially when you don't seem to have the skill set needed to make the assessment required.

Have you not heard of Companies House ? Lots of info here if you are interested in accounts. Reid Kerr have some pretty good courses in accountancy for beginners if you want to learn more.

For example

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/8031052277c4b848a8e5b0863e4d2fa8/compdetails

As a shareholder I have a copy of the recent club accounts

I was not looking to see Mr. Atkinson's accounts, that would be meaningless right now. i suspect there are none. Just an explanation of how he plans to get his hands on £2,000,000 of public money.

PLEASE don't feel the need to reply to this. I want to get back to my real work.

More nonsense, only start posts with that now as I know it annoys Bluto. Companies House holds details of past accounts. As animal well know as do all of the current shareholders and most Saints fans the clubs accounts are openly published and distributed, not to mention there being an AGM to present and discuss the published accounts.

Business plans; however are highly confidential documents. When presented to venture capitalists for example they are as a rule accompanied by a non-disclosure agreement. What animal is demanding is that St Mirren's business plan is posted on an internet forum - as an accountant he should know what a f"kwit request that is. Anyone who has access to a companies business plan or with responsibility for sub plans, such as operational or sales plans will know how sensitive this information is. Would we all have wanted the JD Sports deal splattered all over the forums prior to it being completed - absolutely not as it would have weakened the clubs negotiating position.

If animals doesn't understand that then he is probably not an accountant as such and probably works as a bean counter for some rancid public sector organisation and hever prepared a private sector business accounts in his life.

[buddieup]

Although I really am finding it hard to get the just of CIC in it's finer detail I understand Clyde are now a CIC club along with Stenhousemuir. There are also a lot of small clubs down south including Ruby clubs run this way.

St Mirren will be the largest club if the CIC goes through.

Firstly it's wonderful to see an intelligent, informative thread on here. Rather than just "Lennon's a dick ya fud" we're seeing more and more of.

I'm not going to pretend I know the whole facts surrounding business, and all the various types of interactions involved. But at first glance it does appear to be a bit of a gamble. As you have touched on LS, we will be the biggest scottish club to have tried this. Something just doesn't sit right with me that even financially stable clubs like St Johnstone similar to our size haven't seen this as a valid option. Then the CIC require community input. I'm just sceptical that despite a very large town and surrounding area, no one will really care about St Mirren. If you want evidence just look at our attendences in a town of 70,000. But as others have rightly said, I think we should wait on official info from the club before seeing if this is the correct road to go down.

Just a question though regarding Clyde. Did they attempt the CIC before the club hit the skids or after to regain a more stable financial footing?

[Drew]

Animals is not Stuart Dickson by the way.

There goes one excuse then.

[pozbaird]

Firstly it's wonderful to see an intelligent, informative thread on here. Rather than just "Lennon's a dick ya fud" we're seeing more and more of.

I'm not going to pretend I know the whole facts surrounding business, and all the various types of interactions involved. But at first glance it does appear to be a bit of a gamble. As you have touched on LS, we will be the biggest scottish club to have tried this. Something just doesn't sit right with me that even financially stable clubs like St Johnstone similar to our size haven't seen this as a valid option. Then the CIC require community input. I'm just sceptical that despite a very large town and surrounding area, no one will really care about St Mirren. If you want evidence just look at our attendences in a town of 70,000. But as others have rightly said, I think we should wait on official info from the club before seeing if this is the correct road to go down.

Just a question though regarding Clyde. Did they attempt the CIC before the club hit the skids or after to regain a more stable financial footing?

One thing about other clubs who have went down this route is that they were in financial trouble. St Mirren would be doing something genuinely new in Scottish football, in that as a club, the Tesco deal and new stadium has already put us on a stable footing. We wouldn't be going into this as a desperate measure to save the club from disappearing. I actually find the prospect of learning the full details quite exciting, and far from worrying. As I said, I'd be worried if we were hoping for some sort of Brookes Mileson with more money than sense to ride in on a wave of promises and bullshit.

[bluto]

to ride in on a wave of... bullshit.

A disturbing mental image...

[Drew]

A disturbing mental image...

I sense a 'wave of bullshit/pile of pish' debate in the offing....

waves of pish and piles of bullshit might be more empirically rational, but where is the poeticism and the aesthetic resonance?

[TsuMirren]

One thing about other clubs who have went down this route is that they were in financial trouble. St Mirren would be doing something genuinely new in Scottish football, in that as a club, the Tesco deal and new stadium has already put us on a stable footing.

That to me is an important aspect, certainly Ebbsfleet were kept afloat by director funding and have some quite frankly unbelievable ideas above their station prior to being taken over. The community and fans have been important to pushing Clydebank forward (okay that's the juniors), plus we've already seen previous drives where the wider Saints community got involved (player funding, SMISA and Saints Aid for example) so there's certainly potential there. It appears to me that it's almost a final option for Clyde, a club who didn't appear to have cut their cloth to suit previously, and Stenny's move looks to be in line with their artificial pitch being available for community use.

[St. Sid]

Can you tell me how you as in your words who is not a "genuinely concerned supporter" in my view if you support St.Mirren then you are genuinely concerned.......or is it only those with the most posts on here who think they experts or think they have the inside knowledge .

From a genuinely concerned supporter

I have managed to decode your shocking sentence construction and think I get your point, which is one I agree with. I believe that everyone is right to be concerned; however in the real world beyond St Mirren how much information is provided to deliver the comfort that we would all like to enjoy. I am pretty sure all of our employers play their cards pretty close to their chest. In a period where reduncancies are now commonplace - are companies giving us 6 months notice, or are public sector bodies being open and honest about their plans for the future. I am assured in my own experience that they do not - they didn't even offer that sort of information when times were good. That is the real world.

Moving away from the conspiracy theorists and dealing in facts, I do have some concerns as any sane person would in a period of change. We have recently changed manager, we have run relelgation close too many times now to feel comfortable about an SPL future, the SPL is in turmoil as they fanny around with half baked plans for reconstruction and of course on topic we have a change in the running of St Mirren itself. Any genuine fan will have concerns at the moment.

That being said, the one thing I am absolutely sure of is Stewart Gilmour. Since day one, SG has been open and honest with supporters in terms of his plans for the club. He has always stated that he considers himself a St Mirren supporter holding the guardianship of the clubs in his hands. He has always been clear in his words that he has always been keen to pass the club onto the right people with similar values to himself in terms of the future of the club. What we are seeing is a transition period with a warm handover of the club the well vetted and approved new guardians of St Mirren.

I am currently reading an excellent book by Barry Cunliffe, "Europe Between the Oceans". It is an archaeology based journey through pre-history right up to the AD1000. Fernand Braudel's vision of the essence of the Mediterranean sums up the journey perfectly, "our sea was from the very dawn of its pre-history a witness to those imbalances productive of change which would set the rythms of its entire life." Cunliffe goes on to say that this could be used to describe any of Europe's oceans or the peninsula itself. I would apply the statement to St Mirren as well. St Mirren is not a typical business. Europe's oceans and lands sustained us, they are the lifeblood. St Mirren is in many cases a lifeblood to supporters - an inherent part of our lives, an emotional and financial investment that has exceeded many lifetimes and crossed many generations - unless you're Bluto.

St Mirren like Europe has adapted and changed. It has come under pressure from external attacks, it has seen the nature of the club change and it has adapted itself to the enviroments at play around it. At the very beginning there were critical decisions to be made in terms of the clubs future. St Mirren and Abercorn were at an impass as Scottish football moved to professionalism. St Mirren adapted and survived. Abercorn resisted the change and descended into an annual dinner for dafties.

Thanks to financial mismanagement St Mirren was on its arse a long time before Bosman and was living on borrowed time. The change offered at that time was Reg Brealey. The current BoD had the brass balls to resist a change that would have seen our club finished. Phase 1 for SG and the BoD was to save the club from asset strippers - just as Stenny have sought the safety of CIC status to achieve the same.

The threat of extinction was still very much there for St Mirren in the shape of the bank. The BoD did not have the financial clout to deal with that by throwing money at the problem so we entered a phase of sound financial management, that whilst steadying the ship did not alleviate the issue. SG and the BoD then embarked on Phase 3 of their guardianship of the club they and we love. They worked on a plan to sell Love Street. We were all shiting ourselves - we knew the pitfalls for other clubs who had gone down this route and there was the emotional attachment to the club. The demonstration outside the Council offices has to be one of St Mirrens greatest days when the partial success of the plan was announced. The building was still to be done.

SG and the BoD delivered the new stadium, rid us of the debt that had crippled us and produced the Ralston training centre.

Form the intitial task of wresting the club from the grasp of Brealey, SG and the BOD delivered a remarkable achievement in terms of their guardianship.

We are now entering the final phase of their guardianship. Again SG was open and up front about the intentions. Remarkably there hasn't been the much rumoured quick sell that would see the BoD run off with the profits from selling the family jewels. No instead they have been undertaking the meticulous handover of the club to new guardians, resturcturing the club in such a way that its future is guaranteed for future generations of St Mirren fans. Exactly what SG said he would do.

Yes, we are all nervous, just as we were nervous about the planning permission, just as were nervous about the funding of the new stadium. However, surely ti f"ck SG has done enough over his remarkable stewardship of the club to warrant some faith in what he is trying to achieve. We have been very, very lucky to have SG running our club and there should almost certainly be some formal recognition of his achievements when he finally hands over the reigns to the people he trusts to take the club forward in an exciting, new and required structure for us to thrive as a club and to grow our place in the hearts of the community of Renfrewshire.

It is not a time for conspiracy and weakmindedness. It is a time when the outgoing and incoming guardians of the club need us to be supportive and get behind their innovative plans for the club; a time for us to stand firm and proud of what they and we have acheived over the last few years and be positive about the future that we will share under the new club structure. The next few weeks with be nervewracking just as the run up to the stadium sale was, but what will be achieve though its realisation is something beyond our wildest hopes for the club.

Time to keep the faith and get behind the club and what it is trying to achieve. Have some trust that it is good for all of us and demonstrate a singlemindedness that we want a strong St Mirren for future generations of St Mirren fans. And now I think I'll go to the pub.

[Drew]

I have managed to decode your shocking sentence construction and think I get your point, which is one I agree with. I believe that everyone is right to be concerned; however in the real world beyond St Mirren how much information is provided to deliver the comfort that we would all like to enjoy. I am pretty sure all of our employers play their cards pretty close to their chest. In a period where reduncancies are now commonplace - are companies giving us 6 months notice, or are public sector bodies being open and honest about their plans for the future. I am assured in my own experience that they do not - they didn't even offer that sort of information when times were good. That is the real world.

Moving away from the conspiracy theorists and dealing in facts, I do have some concerns as any sane person would in a period of change. We have recently changed manager, we have run relelgation close too many times now to feel comfortable about an SPL future, the SPL is in turmoil as they fanny around with half baked plans for reconstruction and of course on topic we have a change in the running of St Mirren itself. Any genuine fan will have concerns at the moment.

That being said, the one thing I am absolutely sure of is Stewart Gilmour. Since day one, SG has been open and honest with supporters in terms of his plans for the club. He has always stated that he considers himself a St Mirren supporter holding the guardianship of the clubs in his hands. He has always been clear in his words that he has always been keen to pass the club onto the right people with similar values to himself in terms of the future of the club. What we are seeing is a transition period with a warm handover of the club the well vetted and approved new guardians of St Mirren.

I am currently reading an excellent book by Barry Cunliffe, "Europe Between the Oceans". It is an archaeology based journey through pre-history right up to the AD1000. Fernand Braudel's vision of the essence of the Mediterranean sums up the journey perfectly, "our sea was from the very dawn of its pre-history a witness to those imbalances productive of change which would set the rythms of its entire life." Cunliffe goes on to say that this could be used to describe any of Europe's oceans or the peninsula itself. I would apply the statement to St Mirren as well. St Mirren is not a typical business. Europe's oceans and lands sustained us, they are the lifeblood. St Mirren is in many cases a lifeblood to supporters - an inherent part of our lives, an emotional and financial investment that has exceeded many lifetimes and crossed many generations - unless you're Bluto.

St Mirren like Europe has adapted and changed. It has come under pressure from external attacks, it has seen the nature of the club change and it has adapted itself to the enviroments at play around it. At the very beginning there were critical decisions to be made in terms of the clubs future. St Mirren and Abercorn were at an impass as Scottish football moved to professionalism. St Mirren adapted and survived. Abercorn resisted the change and descended into an annual dinner for dafties.

Thanks to financial mismanagement St Mirren was on its arse a long time before Bosman and was living on borrowed time. The change offered at that time was Reg Brealey. The current BoD had the brass balls to resist a change that would have seen our club finished. Phase 1 for SG and the BoD was to save the club from asset strippers - just as Stenny have sought the safety of CIC status to achieve the same.

The threat of extinction was still very much there for St Mirren in the shape of the bank. The BoD did not have the financial clout to deal with that by throwing money at the problem so we entered a phase of sound financial management, that whilst steadying the ship did not alleviate the issue. SG and the BoD then embarked on Phase 3 of their guardianship of the club they and we love. They worked on a plan to sell Love Street. We were all shiting ourselves - we knew the pitfalls for other clubs who had gone down this route and there was the emotional attachment to the club. The demonstration outside the Council offices has to be one of St Mirrens greatest days when the partial success of the plan was announced. The building was still to be done.

SG and the BoD delivered the new stadium, rid us of the debt that had crippled us and produced the Ralston training centre.

Form the intitial task of wresting the club from the grasp of Brealey, SG and the BOD delivered a remarkable achievement in terms of their guardianship.

We are now entering the final phase of their guardianship. Again SG was open and up front about the intentions. Remarkably there hasn't been the much rumoured quick sell that would see the BoD run off with the profits from selling the family jewels. No instead they have been undertaking the meticulous handover of the club to new guardians, resturcturing the club in such a way that its future is guaranteed for future generations of St Mirren fans. Exactly what SG said he would do.

Yes, we are all nervous, just as we were nervous about the planning permission, just as were nervous about the funding of the new stadium. However, surely ti f"ck SG has done enough over his remarkable stewardship of the club to warrant some faith in what he is trying to achieve. We have been very, very lucky to have SG running our club and there should almost certainly be some formal recognition of his achievements when he finally hands over the reigns to the people he trusts to take the club forward in an exciting, new and required structure for us to thrive as a club and to grow our place in the hearts of the community of Renfrewshire.

It is not a time for conspiracy and weakmindedness. It is a time when the outgoing and incoming guardians of the club need us to be supportive and get behind their innovative plans for the club; a time for us to stand firm and proud of what they and we have acheived over the last few years and be positive about the future that we will share under the new club structure. The next few weeks with be nervewracking just as the run up to the stadium sale was, but what will be achieve though its realisation is something beyond our wildest hopes for the club.

Time to keep the faith and get behind the club and what it is trying to achieve. Have some trust that it is good for all of us and demonstrate a singlemindedness that we want a strong St Mirren for future generations of St Mirren fans. And now I think I'll go to the pub.

What a wave of pish/pile of bullshit! [delete as appropriate]

[Gruffalo]

I have a fairly straight-forward question here .........

Having held some senior positions with some sizeable companies I decided to take the plunge and set-up my own company and something is not right here -

I have invested a lot of money in making my company work and will do absolutely everything in my power to ensure its success - I have to as I need to provide for my family and if it falters I am in some serious financial doo-doo but also because I care about it and want to see it continue to succeed.

The thing that this whole thing smacks of is who is going to actuallly care ?? The CiC is a vehicle as I see it for these guys to buy the club and for it to be run by 'the community' - who we would hope would be St. Mirren supporters so of course they/we will all care but 99.9% of the community will not have any real input on a day-to-day basis.

I havent read the various threads on this topic so dont know a helluva a lot about the man but if he is not investing a penny (so it doesnt hurt financially) does Mr. Atkinson care enough that if this all starts to go 'tits up' he will do absolutely everything in his power to ensure our future as unpalatable as some of these things are (as Mr. Gilmour has done for the past however many years) or will he merely think "Oh well that didnt work but it hasnt cost me anything - time to move on"

Great post Iain.

From my limited knowledge of the deal it looks far to simple and risk free. In my own limited experience in business "risk free" does not exist.

To get told that Clyde and Stenhousmuir are CiC clubs does not inspire me with confidence.

Time will tell I presume

[St. Sid]

What a wave of pish/pile of bullshit! [delete as appropriate]

Quality wave of pish/pile of bullshit.

I remember Tony Fitzpatrick heading upm a press conference when the plans to sell the stadium was announced along with other worthies decrying the plan as doomed to failure. Whenever change rears it scary head all manner of shitebags will crawl out of the woodwork to wave their fist in the face of somehting that will happen whether they like it or not. The new restructuring will be no different. If some positivity for the plan was demonstrated then perhaps SG and the new Directors would feel more comfortable about releasing more information. However based on experience it is clear every attention seeking creepy conspiracy theorists will be out to try and embarrass the plans as this thread sadly demonstrates.

The fans that attended the demo at the Renfrewshire Council Buildings got it right, the conspiracy theorists despite being proven wrong so many times continue to spout their bile in the face of previous successes despite their previous humiliations - have yet to see any of the fannies apologise to SG or the BoD for their shite, running down plans that have delivered a debt free club with an infrastructure that is the envy of most Scottish clubs. It is a shame that whilst the Scottish Government hails the achievements of St Mirren, some its own fans seek to undermine them.

[Drew]

Quality wave of pish/pile of bullshit.

I remember Tony Fitzpatrick heading upm a press conference when the plans to sell the stadium was announced along with other worthies decrying the plan as doomed to failure. Whenever change rears it scary head all manner of shitebags will crawl out of the woodwork to wave their fist in the face of somehting that will happen whether they like it or not. The new restructuring will be no different. If some positivity for the plan was demonstrated then perhaps SG and the new Directors would feel more comfortable about releasing more information. However based on experience it is clear every attention seeking creepy conspiracy theorists will be out to try and embarrass the plans as this thread sadly demonstrates.

The fans that attended the demo at the Renfrewshire Council Buildings got it right, the conspiracy theorists despite being proven wrong so many times continue to spout their bile in the face of previous successes despite their previous humiliations - have yet to see any of the fannies apologise to SG or the BoD for their shite, running down plans that have delivered a debt free club with an infrastructure that is the envy of most Scottish clubs. It is a shame that whilst the Scottish Government hails the achievements of St Mirren, some its own fans seek to undermine them.

Aye, we're a fickle bunch, that's for sure.

Scepticism is a healthy attribute IMO, but it does seem as though we sometimes hunt for something to be cynical and negative about. I'm sure all will become clearer soon enough.

[ktf]

Aye, we're a fickle bunch, that's for sure.

Scepticism is a healthy attribute IMO, but it does seem as though we sometimes hunt for something to be cynical and negative about. I'm sure all will become clearer soon enough.

Great point Drew. It's a good thing to be Atkinson-skeptic, questions are good. The problem is, some are Atkinson-phobic...!!!

[scottd]

Great point Drew. It's a good thing to be Atkinson-skeptic, questions are good. The problem is, some are Atkinson-phobic...!!!

I'd say that I'm more Atkinson-ignorant as I don't enough about him or his plans to pass comment either way. What I'm confident of is that Gilmour wouldn't entertain him unless his intentions were good.

[Kemp]

I'd say that I'm more Atkinson-ignorant as I don't enough about him or his plans to pass comment either way. What I'm confident of is that Gilmour wouldn't entertain him unless his intentions were good.

A not unreasonable assumption point of view given how much we owe to Mr Gilmour, but a dangerous one none the less. In business, I don't look at what someone has done in the past, but what they deliver now, and what they intend to do in the present and future.

The present board wants out. Is the deal they are taking going to be in the best interests of the club? Or is it just the fastest way out?

This is an interesting thread - drivel from Animal and Sid aside - but the feeling I get from here is that our club is about to change ownership, and nobody here is armed with enough information to know whether it is a positive or negative move.

I was completely ignorant about the style of deal that was being pushed through until I read this thread though, and I thank the original poster for at least brining it up.

I for one am concerned from what I have read here. I am going to contact the club for clarification before commenting more, it would be good if we all did the same. The debate is certainly healthy however.

[Stuart Dickson]

This. I am sure animals has some good points to make and has some value to add to the debate, but frankly I stopped caring about that when he adopted his "I am significantly better than all of you f**kwits" approach.

Animals is not Stuart Dickson by the way.

Ofcourse he's not. I mean FFS it's what three or four years since I made any sort of lengthy post, anywhere, on anything to do with St Mirren. Perhaps I should be flattered that I've obviously had such an impact on so many St Mirren fans but you'd think the message might have sunk in now - I really couldn't give a toss about St Mirren anymore. I only ventured on here last week when I heard Provans was being dumped for some ridiculous deal with JD Sports.

My interest in this thread was the CIC proposal. The club I have helped out with over the last three years has gone from struggling to pay it's training lets and league fees to negotiating and submitting plans for shared ownership of two 4g pitches - and yes one will have a running track around it.... Funnilly enough we did it with the investment from local businesses. It's strange how St Mirren couldn't get the same....

Oh and I am significantly better than all of you f**kwits.

[smfcok]

A not unreasonable assumption point of view given how much we owe to Mr Gilmour, but a dangerous one none the less. In business, I don't look at what someone has done in the past, but what they deliver now, and what they intend to do in the present and future.

The present board wants out. Is the deal they are taking going to be in the best interests of the club? Or is it just the fastest way out?

.....

The debate is certainly healthy however.

Good post.

As a general rule, putting blind trust in any other human being is not recommended.

Can everyone say that they are perfectly happy with every aspect of the stadium that was delivered?

Apart from being impossible to please all of the people all of the time, some glaring errors were made.

Had more open consultation taken place in advance, that situation may have been avoided.

I'm simply saying that no matter how good any chairman and the members of a board are, like everyone else, they are not perfect.

Any information that could legally be shared by the club could be scrutinised in a helpful way by our community, before committing to anything.

It might just help.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Ofcourse he's not. I mean FFS it's what three or four years since I made any sort of lengthy post, anywhere, on anything to do with St Mirren. Perhaps I should be flattered that I've obviously had such an impact on so many St Mirren fans but you'd think the message might have sunk in now - I really couldn't give a toss about St Mirren anymore. I only ventured on here last week when I heard Provans was being dumped for some ridiculous deal with JD Sports.

My interest in this thread was the CIC proposal. The club I have helped out with over the last three years has gone from struggling to pay it's training lets and league fees to negotiating and submitting plans for shared ownership of two 4g pitches - and yes one will have a running track around it.... Funnilly enough we did it with the investment from local businesses. It's strange how St Mirren couldn't get the same....

Oh and I am significantly better than all of you f**kwits.

Aye but has your club got a running track round it.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

This is an interesting thread - drivel from Animal and Sid aside - but the feeling I get from here is that our club is about to change ownership, and nobody here is armed with enough information to know whether it is a positive or negative move.

Good post Kemp and the quote I have taken from your post is the key point. What worries me is are we going to find out everything when this is a done deal.

Mr Atkinson we hear this is a delicate time of the CIC agenda. Ok that's understood but would it not be good to come out and say before anything is signed I will come out and explain CIC. You have to understand we nearly lost the club once and we the fans will need reassuring risks are as minimal as possible.

Apologies for the double post above

[div]

blah blah blah

Bore off.

[St. Sid]

A not unreasonable assumption point of view given how much we owe to Mr Gilmour, but a dangerous one none the less. In business, I don't look at what someone has done in the past, but what they deliver now, and what they intend to do in the present and future.

The present board wants out. Is the deal they are taking going to be in the best interests of the club? Or is it just the fastest way out?

This is an interesting thread - drivel from Animal and Sid aside - but the feeling I get from here is that our club is about to change ownership, and nobody here is armed with enough information to know whether it is a positive or negative move.

I was completely ignorant about the style of deal that was being pushed through until I read this thread though, and I thank the original poster for at least brining it up.

I for one am concerned from what I have read here. I am going to contact the club for clarification before commenting more, it would be good if we all did the same. The debate is certainly healthy however.

Disagree with the other posters that think there is any content in the above post other than conspiracy and insult to the people who have not only saved the club, but moved it on significantly.

The present board wants out. Is the deal they are taking going to be in the best interests of the club? Or is it just the fastest way out?

That line just about sums up the utter scumbaggery of some supporters. What have SG and the BoD done that has not been in the interest of the club? Let's see some justification for your lack of trust. If you don't look at what someone has done in the past in relation to making decisions about your business, good luck when Nick Leeson becomes your Finance Director.

We are seeing post after post in this thread with nothing but thinly veiled innuendo that the old BoD is going to rip us all off. "Is it just a fast way out?" - Furfuxake, SG & Co have already gove well beyond the call of duty in terms of what they have done for our and their club. This process has hardly been the "quick way out to earn a fast buck" - what would have been easier would have been to take the GLS money on offer. That would have been lightening quick and without knowing any detail of GLS's proposal would have left us no further forward - it would just have been a cash payment to the existing owners to effect a regime change leaving the club no better off.

If you have genuine reasons and evidence for not trusting or supporting SG & the Board then let's hear it. If not then why bother posting waves of pish / pile of shite innuendo that could potentially undermine a process that would see us move onto the much desired "next level".

If you have concerns, then deal with it like the rest of us - if you have evidence of mis-dealings then share it.

SG is a hero to our club and the current treatment being meated out by a minority of fans is a disgrace. You state in your own post that you do not have enough information to gauge whether the plan is good or bad for the club. There are a couple of obvious points there. Firstly why post negativity about the plans when you state your intention is to find out more. Why add to the unsettling paranoid conspiracy theory posts. And secondly, if you know so little about the running of the club what makes you think that you will be able to comprehend the plans that are being implemented - or are we just going to get more arrogant opinionated pish like - "In business, I don't look at what someone has done in the past, but what they deliver now, and what they intend to do in the present and future."

[St. Sid]

Good post.

As a general rule, putting blind trust in any other human being is not recommended.

Can everyone say that they are perfectly happy with every aspect of the stadium that was delivered?

Apart from being impossible to please all of the people all of the time, some glaring errors were made.

Had more open consultation taken place in advance, that situation may have been avoided.

I'm simply saying that no matter how good any chairman and the members of a board are, like everyone else, they are not perfect.

Any information that could legally be shared by the club could be scrutinised in a helpful way by our community, before committing to anything.

It might just help.

More pish.....your complaint relates to a lack of consultation with the support - you appear to have completely missed the f'k'n point about what CIC status is about. It not only delivers consultation, it delivers active community involvement in the club - that is one of the key deliverables to firstly achieve the status and just as importantly for it to secure funding. CIC stands for community interest company; however, it could just as easily stand for Community Involvement Company.

So let's consider your taudry complaint in detail. The club works through an aggresive and time sensitive plan that dimwitted conspiracy theorists declared would be a disaster - the budget for the stadium would not be enough and we would end up with more debt or lose the club, the BoD weren't experienced enough therefore Barr would screw us, blah f'k'n blah.....This was a massive project for the club, an absolutely critical project for the club that has transformed our status from completely skint club on the verge of administration to a secure club with an excellent training facility.

So let's hear your petty complaints about the stadium construction??????????? Get them out there so we can compare what has been achieved by the BoD versus what you are in enough of a sulk about to seek to undermine the current process.......

[Kemp]

Sid, you have entirely misunderstood the point everyone is making here. Calm down and go read it all again.