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The Club Buy Out - 10000 Hours


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Lobby was just a turn of phrase. Your wonderful posts prove that one thing I am not is paranoid (see previous post). Sid, you are in dire danger of starting to appear a complete gibbering cretin. Please read/think before starting the slavering goon routine.

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If this goes ahead, and individual members have 5 representatives to carry out their wishes, I want Big Fras and St Sid to be lead representatives. Imagine the scene at a big important vote...

"Corporate members how do you vote?"

"We vote yes."

"Community members, what say ye?"

"We say aye".

"Individual members, your decision please.....hello, individual members?"

"Suck ma' gnarly bawsacks ya dick!"

"Jesus Christ Sid, just fcuking vote ya slavering cretin!"

"Goon!"

"Bawbag!"

... Meeting adjourned!

Gets my vote!

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Fras, suck ma gnarly bawbag. :P

There is no CIC lobby ya paranoid fud. There is a lobby that would like dafties to hang fire until they have a reasonable level of understanding before getting entrenched one way or another.

There is no railroading of this whatsoever, in fact the opposite is true. If the fans decide we don't want this then the status quo remains in place and the BoD go back to looking for a traditional buyer.

I also reserve the right to decide the CIC is a lot of shite once I have all the facts in my possession.

I will look at the various merits of the CIC setup and also take a look at the downside....one of which is the terrifying thought that some of the fandan supporters we have might actually gain some influence in the running of the club. Just imagine some blawbag like animal managing to fool everyone into thinking he has a clue about finances or running a business. :)

Having run a successful business for over 30 years I think I have more than just a clue. What kind of business are you in ? Clearly one that does not involve much contact with the outside world, dealing with people, diplomatic or communication skills !

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Nobody should be investing in any Football Club.

Scottish Football is dying on it's arse at the moment.

Until it's changed to a structure which i've been referring to for months then it will remain rotten to the core.

If the CIC goes through then so what ?

Admission Prices will still be a rip off.

Players will still be overpaid.

Money down the f*ckin drain.

The whole Game needs fixed first.

The Board, including Richard , have already lied to us ( Aberdeen Cup Tie prices )

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Having run a successful business for over 30 years I think I have more than just a clue. What kind of business are you in ? Clearly one that does not involve much contact with the outside world, dealing with people, diplomatic or communication skills !

I have been running a hugely successful .com business for a number of years.... www.tiewearingwearywulliewankers.com. It is a networking resourse for small (minded) business men to compare their charity auction collections and rotary club activities. The tiewearingwankers are sucked into the site by the use of fake aliases who marvel at the wonders of the business acumen of the wearywullies. However, the big money is made through the click throughs and cross web selling to my www.rentboysforsmall(nobbed)businessmen.com . The rent boys have been complaining about some auld dodgy character operating under the alias of "animal" - he keeps asking them to do unspeakable things with his EBITDA. :P

Seriously though animal, what is your annual marketing spend - and I mean investment in third party advertising. Is it a 7-figure sum, a 6-figure sum, a high 5-figure sum? :)

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One of the main questions a lot of folk seem to have is "What do businesses get for their £10k?" or words to that effect. There is an indication that some businesses have been signed up. It would therefore be a good PR move if the 10,000 Hours people got one of these businessmen to come out saying why he signed up and encourage others to do likewise. Same goes for the community groups.

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One of the main questions a lot of folk seem to have is "What do businesses get for their £10k?" or words to that effect. There is an indication that some businesses have been signed up. It would therefore be a good PR move if the 10,000 Hours people got one of these businessmen to come out saying why he signed up and encourage others to do likewise. Same goes for the community groups.

That of course assumes that any businesses have signed up and promised the 10K a year. If no one comes forward that will be very interesting.

Might be easier to get a 'community group' to own up since they don't seem to have to put any hard cash on the table - well I am assuming that the likes of Accord Hospice don't have cash to spare on the running of a football club.

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I have been running a hugely successful .com business for a number of years.... www.tiewearingwearywulliewankers.com. It is a networking resourse for small (minded) business men to compare their charity auction collections and rotary club activities. The tiewearingwankers are sucked into the site by the use of fake aliases who marvel at the wonders of the business acumen of the wearywullies. However, the big money is made through the click throughs and cross web selling to my www.rentboysforsmall(nobbed)businessmen.com . The rent boys have been complaining about some auld dodgy character operating under the alias of "animal" - he keeps asking them to do unspeakable things with his EBITDA. :P

Seriously though animal, what is your annual marketing spend - and I mean investment in third party advertising. Is it a 7-figure sum, a 6-figure sum, a high 5-figure sum? :)

We are in the fortunate position that we don't really need to advertise. The vast bulk of our work is repeat business from satisfied clients. We do however spend several thousand pounds a year with St. Mirren.

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One thing is for certain.

Given the amount of bombastic rodomotade already poluting this topic, can you imagine what it'll be like if this CIC doo-dah ever comes to fruition?

Jeezo, this site will go into terminal meltdown.

"ma business acumen's better than your business acumen"

"naw its no"

"aye it is" etc, ad nauseum......

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One thing is for certain.

Given the amount of bombastic rodomotade already poluting this topic, can you imagine what it'll be like if this CIC doo-dah ever comes to fruition?

Jeezo, this site will go into terminal meltdown.

"ma business acumen's better than your business acumen"

"naw its no"

"aye it is" etc, ad nauseum......

There is too much scaremongering in this thread, and it seems a lot of people think that they're the most qualified person on the forum to pass judgement on the idea despite not knowing many, if any, details.

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There is too much scaremongering in this thread, and it seems a lot of people think that they're the most qualified person on the forum to pass judgement on the idea despite not knowing many, if any, details.

Of course there is. That's the problem with the way this whole thing has been handled though. It makes me think I was right when I said they wanted everyone to put their money in so they can buy a suggestion box and ask all the members how they think it should work.

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There's one in Stuart Dickson's head. The voices, the voices.

Why is this Dickson type even back on here blink.gif

Thought he despised everything about the diddy provinces that are St Mirren, yet he would appear to be unable to leave the club and fans he so despises , er, alone to meddle about in their own provincial diddyism. I think there are some OCD issues with St Mirren, this Dickson type certainly seems obsessed about the club and its fans.

Must be a denial thing, or perhaps its just post wank pondering

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Is the full CIC proposal available to read anywhere?

It will be sent out via email sometime next week to all those who have registered an interest via the 10000hours website, and it will also be made available to download from there.

Over 1,000 registrations of interest now taken on the TTH site.

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It will be sent out via email sometime next week to all those who have registered an interest via the 10000hours website, and it will also be made available to download from there.

Over 1,000 registrations of interest now taken on the TTH site.

Missed a trick on the webpage Div. After all the registration boxes - put one at the end. 'Are you in favour of a 10 team SPL?'

:wink:

Edited by pozbaird
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Is Gordon Scott still featuring anywhere in and around the CiC and shareholdings etc etc. Has he severed all links with the club blink.gif

The consortium own 52% between the 5 of them. I thought that of the other 48%, Gordon Scott owned 35% of them. I think someone posted something along those lines on here recently. Either that, or Gordon Scott and one other shareholder between them own 35% of the non-consortium owned shares.

If anyone has been, or is being, shafted - seems to me that it won't be the CIC shafting the 48%, it was the consortium seriously shafting Gordon Scott.

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The consortium own 52% between the 5 of them. I thought that of the other 48%, Gordon Scott owned 35% of them. I think someone posted something along those lines on here recently. Either that, or Gordon Scott and one other shareholder between them own 35% of the non-consortium owned shares.

If anyone has been, or is being, shafted - seems to me that it won't be the CIC shafting the 48%, it was the consortium seriously shafting Gordon Scott.

It's pretty impossible not to lay that on their door isn't it. I just hope it doesn't muddy this whole process too much, the 48% will get representation and I think it's fair to round it up by saying it'll be up to them how to assign someone or however you want to term it.

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It's pretty impossible not to lay that on their door isn't it. I just hope it doesn't muddy this whole process too much, the 48% will get representation and I think it's fair to round it up by saying it'll be up to them how to assign someone or however you want to term it.

Hmm...

That will be a pretty dispersed and disparate group, though. Quite how they could possibly mobilise with a view to having a meaningful influence is difficult to figure out.

If I were one of the 48%, this whole process would be leaving a pretty bad taste in my mouth. As I'm not, I don't really consider myself as having any entitlement to comment, but i think those that do should be afforded every opportunity to ask some pretty searching questions and air their concerns, if they haven't been already.

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Possibly a very daft scenario, but...

What would happen if Gordon Scott registered, say, a dozen businesses (let's say he ensured they each had charitable status so qualified for tax concessions) and signed each one up as a member of the CiC. That would involve a hell of lot less expense (£120K in total) than the sum he must have bid when seeking to buy out the consortium. He would then have considerable clout in the CiC, and, allied with his existing shares, could have all but a controlling interest in the club.

No? :ph34r:

Edited by Drew
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Possibly a very daft scenario, but...

What would happen if Gordon Scott registered, say, a dozen businesses (let's say he ensured they each had charitable status so qualified for tax concessions) and signed each one up as a member of the CiC. That would involve a hell of lot less expense (£120K in total) than the sum he must have bid when seeking to buy out the consortium. He would then have considerable clout in the CiC, and, allied with his existing shares, could have all but a controlling interest in the club.

No? :ph34r:

I reckon this post was made by the bloke in your avatar pic Drew. Have a green dot and a hot cocoa. I cannae' even begin to think about the points you've just made. Ya' spangle. :P

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It's pretty impossible not to lay that on their door isn't it. I just hope it doesn't muddy this whole process too much, the 48% will get representation and I think it's fair to round it up by saying it'll be up to them how to assign someone or however you want to term it.

It could never happen…

A tale to worry about

Once upon a time there was a football club that had transformed itself from a position of debt to one of security and was happy to boast of being debt free.

The supporters and board and shareholders were proud too. They had seen off dangerous promises of riches in the past.

Results were not great but the club had a loyal following… and a supporter base that cared. The club had been a top league team for most of its 130 years. As a result

the club was famous for the high expectations of its fans and the demanding nature of their support.

The directors had done a fantastic job. Unfortunately the board split. 52% control of the club was put up for sale as a bloc purchase.

Who would buy? Who would spend their own money to buy, not the entire club but control of 52%.

Over the horizon rode a stranger. A self-confessed non-football fan. A man with absolutely no interest in St. Mirren Football Club.

He decided to offer to buy the controlling interest in the club. But he would spend none of his own money to do so. He knew he couldn’t buy the entire club. He would go instead for the 52% and ignore all the rest.

He would have to get some of the natives onside first, even though he doesn’t understand the offside nor onside rule! Bit of humour there. So he targets the supporters who seem to care most. He speaks to high profile fans and their organisations. He explains that he is going to set up a community interest company and that they will have a say in the running of their club… just like Barcelona. The fans care and some go along with the notion. He finds out what pushes their buttons. He discovers that it is their love for the club and a hope for a better future. This is their weakness.

Meantime the directors decide that his is the only possibility in town, the reasons don’t matter. They will allow him to run with the ball. It is round, they explain.

He sets to work. He will attempt to buy this famous club with other people’s money using the idea of a community buy out. Businesses will be asked to contribute £10k each annually. Fans £120 each annually on top of what they already spend. Contacts are made. He speaks to the fans in a small way. He even manages to get some of the well-meaning ones to contribute to his efforts for free. They do so because they firmly believe they are helping their team. He intends to raise cash to buy the shares by applying for grants from the Scottish Government and later in the process announces that some of the money will be by way of loans. This is a new development but the fans seem to accept it. They say the loans will be held by the CIC. So the CIC will have substantial debts. No mention has been made of any real investment in the team at this stage. Information leaks out. Publicity is gained by limited TV and media coverage. A well meaning former player is brought in to help front the project. This is good publicity and a number of pundits accept it at face value. The TV interviews tell the fans nothing. The radio talks of a Barcelona model of ownership for the Buddies, even though it is clear that Barcelona is 100 percent owned by its supporters. Saints will not be. They will be moved into the control of a CIC owned by a mix of fans and a transient membership this may be well meaning but as with all committees is a recipe for discord unless a total purchase is on the cards. It isn’t. They could find themselves being managed by a mixture of charities, churches and possibly businesses in the future if the principal decides he wants to move on. He has stated that if the idea doesn’t work he will leave. Some are surprised that he is still around at this point as the season has only a few matches left. But convincing others to part with their cash can take time, especially if you are not prepared to do so to any extent yourself. He is comfortable with this as he has no real connection to the club and has stated that he is only doing this because he can.

The stranger seems a decent fellow though. There is no reason to think otherwise and still isn’t. He talks of community at a shareholders’ AGM. A shareholder asks why he is not doing this at Ayr United as he comes from Ayr and has stated that he is passionate about community. His answer is that they are in debt. The questioner says so much for community.

Time goes on and anticipated deadlines pass. Debates start on both unofficial and official websites. Some points are made out of concern. Others from what appear to be entrenched viewpoints. Some of the language is unfortunate but at least everyone, that’s everyone shows passion, no matter their viewpoint. Our stranger doesn’t however. But says in interviews that although he is not a St. Mirren fan he is a football supporter. This is surprising as the press in Ayrshire (Try the Irvine Herald) quoted the MD of his parent company, actually his father, as saying that his son has no interest whatsoever in football. Oh well, play to the gallery. St. Mirren is the only team I have ever wanted to take control of with other people’s money, or words to that effect.

There are attractions in his scheme though. In fact if it were to create a genuine community buy out of the club, that’s the entire club, then the idea may appeal to even the doubters. Unfortunately he has been quoted on websites and elsewhere saying that the other 48 per cent of the shareholder don’t matter. As ever Paisley is a village and as with other aspects of this scheme these comments have a way of coming out.

Some fans call for calm and to wait and see. Others see dangerous waters ahead and don’t want to hit the rocks. Tempers flair on the forums. Some supporters try to advise while others try to alarm, warn, or convince. All the while time is being bought. We are told that if the community buy in then money is in the pipeline. But from where? Where is this cash pipeline in the middle of a recession? The onus is shifted onto the community, the fans. It will be their fault if it fails. Our hero will be blameless and will walk away.

It would be easy to decry our hero. But as he seems to be a decent chap many are quite rightly giving him the benefit of the doubt. Even as others are, quite rightly questioning his motives.

Unfortunately the proof will only be in the pudding if this goes through. The problem with this tale is that there are too many what ifs. The attraction of not being responsible for any debt you incur in purchasing the shares is understandable. We are told the club will be unaffected. This seems like Christmas every day to some Buds and no wonder! However not one person has asked what the knock on effect will be on the club. A potentially failed owner with 52% shareholding which belongs not to the subscribing fans but to the CIC. The debt will have to be addressed. The club cannot expect any real level of investment from an owner so deep in debt.

The pluses are there though. The idea of the club being safe forever is a big one. But the risk involved in this experiment isn’t worth it. Some fans argue that they would feel more a part of the club. After all they love St. Mirren which is to their credit. The funny thing here is that the club already belongs to the supporters and always has. It’s just that some of them have more shares than others. If it goes down this route, with a collection of minority churches including some from outwith Paisley and Renfrewshire, with people in control who have no real interest in the team, the pride of local people and what makes them tick and any number of small contributors with no opportunity to further invest in the club in times of emergency then heaven help us.

This is a fantastic tale and we (there are seven of us, cue the music, yes that may be the magnificent seven) couldn’t possibly see this actually happening. Could you?

To be continued.

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