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The Club Buy Out - 10000 Hours


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Perhaps we should take inspiration from the promotion to the Football league of AFC Wimbledon. A truly wonderful story of success against all the odds, when everyone bar the fans wanted their club to die.

Have a wee gander at their site for ideas....

AFC Wimbledon

Ebbsfleet United fans used to witter on about being a larger club than Wimbledon. I think it's been a fantastic achievement by everyone involved there.

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Howdy one and all,

Now please don’t be cruel to Yul, just give the following tale a bit of consideration.

The Mag7 of us are still looking and searching the prairie for any sign of funding appearing in the el banco cic.

To date as May closes there is diddlysquat. The same goes for news or progress.

In the meantime the chuck wagons rolled into Renfrew on Friday night for the annual Saints shindig. Some folk no doubt took the opportunity to have a word with the Mysterious Stranger. Seems they were told what was basically a re-run of the last two to three months worth of financial fayre that we have all heard over and over again.

Thankfully the fayre from the chuck wagons was much, much better!

It was also noted that the Stranger’s club legend frontman with the TF brand was missing from the dinner table. What a missed opportunity to talk to St. Mirren supporting businesses, strange.

The Stranger’s implied ‘bonanza’ for the club was at times more of a case of putting the Hoss before the Cartwright! He has not yet hit and there is no sign of paydirt in the near future

The Stranger may not be planning to bushwack the fans, but to get what he wants he is depending on the blind faith of the villagers down the SMP trail. We don’t buy his story, there is more to this than we are being told. Given one or two comments we think he more or less regards GHR as GreenHorn Road, he is still convinced that he can convince those pesky villagers! (Add in here the latest number of pledges but not a dime, not a red cent).

Despite what he told us we know that FOUR agreed financial deadlines with the board have now been missed. His pow wow with SMISA did not go well either which is really putting it lightly! They are definitely beginning to see the problems associated with this plan now. Glory, glory, thank the lawd! (Or as one recent poster may prefer, Taing do Shealbh).

Since we last telegraphed you, our Mag7 smisar reports that the Stranger is far from happy at the ‘attitude’ of the fans at SMISA.

Lawdy, lawdy while all of this has been happnin the telegraph road has been a buzzin with news regarding the Kibble Kid’s and the kibble kids’ part in all of this. The word on the wires is that some at the ole Kibble Korrrrall are far from happy. We’ll keep an ear to the rails on this as railroading it through seems to have run out of steam. Hold meetings, hold more meetings, give the impression of activity, chuf, chuuufff, chuuuuufffffffffffffff, sigh.

Reading through some of the posts on both sites, even some of the backers (as opposed to dissenters) are now asking key questions regarding timelines etc. We welcome this.

Since we rode into town we have (and we don’t blame anyone at all for this) been the subject of much yahoo from those who see the cic as a pot of gold for the club. They all mean well. Yet many still say they are willing to take a chance, or give it a go for a year. The forums are peppered with these comments. NONE OF US CAN AFFORD TO TAKE A CHANCE WITH THIS SCHEME. The safety and stability of the club is far too important. Once you decide to pay 10 greenbacks a month to a CIC and not to St. Mirren for the next big ten years then that’s it. The only way that will stop is if it all falls flatter than a cowpat. Then a cic would be trying to sell the 52% shareholding in one go rather than the natural turnover of shares and directors over a period of time.

And another thing, this instant 20% promised increase in the boy Danny’s playing budget for instance. That’s around 260,000 of your quaint Scotch poonds. But part of the thinking included an extra 500 bums on seats to achieve this. That’s up there with saying rain is wet. Ya’ll had better have a think about that claim. If we get another 500 supporters to the games field it will be because the team are playing better. Can you just see the Stranger, the executive board, the cic board, the St. Mirren board all trying to take credit for the increase in income that that would bring! Cos pardners the team and the manager are so far down the food chain here that they almost don’t matter, which is after all what the Stranger has already told a number of our fans already!

Right then cowpokes, for the record please stop accusing other posters of being me or me as being someone else. I’m not, they are not. I am me.

Methinks a bit of paranoia is a creepin in here. Deal with it.

Tapadh leibh,

Yul

…to be continued

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blah blah blah............

Once you decide to pay 10 greenbacks a month to a CIC and not to St. Mirren for the next big ten years then that’s it. The only way that will stop is if it all falls flatter than a cowpat. Then a cic would be trying to sell the 52% shareholding in one go rather than the natural turnover of shares and directors over a period of time.

blah blah blah

Erm, you mean like the current selling consortium are trying to do ? :blink:

If they don't sell the 52% to the CIC, they will sell them to someone else, so we'll have a new owner whether it's the CIC or not.

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Howdy one and all,

Now please don’t be cruel to Yul, just give the following tale a bit of consideration.

The Mag7 of us are still looking and searching the prairie for any sign of funding appearing in the el banco cic.

To date as May closes there is diddlysquat. The same goes for news or progress.

In the meantime the chuck wagons rolled into Renfrew on Friday night for the annual Saints shindig. Some folk no doubt took the opportunity to have a word with the Mysterious Stranger. Seems they were told what was basically a re-run of the last two to three months worth of financial fayre that we have all heard over and over again.

Thankfully the fayre from the chuck wagons was much, much better!

It was also noted that the Stranger’s club legend frontman with the TF brand was missing from the dinner table. What a missed opportunity to talk to St. Mirren supporting businesses, strange.

The Stranger’s implied ‘bonanza’ for the club was at times more of a case of putting the Hoss before the Cartwright! He has not yet hit and there is no sign of paydirt in the near future

The Stranger may not be planning to bushwack the fans, but to get what he wants he is depending on the blind faith of the villagers down the SMP trail. We don’t buy his story, there is more to this than we are being told. Given one or two comments we think he more or less regards GHR as GreenHorn Road, he is still convinced that he can convince those pesky villagers! (Add in here the latest number of pledges but not a dime, not a red cent).

Despite what he told us we know that FOUR agreed financial deadlines with the board have now been missed. His pow wow with SMISA did not go well either which is really putting it lightly! They are definitely beginning to see the problems associated with this plan now. Glory, glory, thank the lawd! (Or as one recent poster may prefer, Taing do Shealbh).

Since we last telegraphed you, our Mag7 smisar reports that the Stranger is far from happy at the ‘attitude’ of the fans at SMISA.

Lawdy, lawdy while all of this has been happnin the telegraph road has been a buzzin with news regarding the Kibble Kid’s and the kibble kids’ part in all of this. The word on the wires is that some at the ole Kibble Korrrrall are far from happy. We’ll keep an ear to the rails on this as railroading it through seems to have run out of steam. Hold meetings, hold more meetings, give the impression of activity, chuf, chuuufff, chuuuuufffffffffffffff, sigh.

Reading through some of the posts on both sites, even some of the backers (as opposed to dissenters) are now asking key questions regarding timelines etc. We welcome this.

Since we rode into town we have (and we don’t blame anyone at all for this) been the subject of much yahoo from those who see the cic as a pot of gold for the club. They all mean well. Yet many still say they are willing to take a chance, or give it a go for a year. The forums are peppered with these comments. NONE OF US CAN AFFORD TO TAKE A CHANCE WITH THIS SCHEME. The safety and stability of the club is far too important. Once you decide to pay 10 greenbacks a month to a CIC and not to St. Mirren for the next big ten years then that’s it. The only way that will stop is if it all falls flatter than a cowpat. Then a cic would be trying to sell the 52% shareholding in one go rather than the natural turnover of shares and directors over a period of time.

And another thing, this instant 20% promised increase in the boy Danny’s playing budget for instance. That’s around 260,000 of your quaint Scotch poonds. But part of the thinking included an extra 500 bums on seats to achieve this. That’s up there with saying rain is wet. Ya’ll had better have a think about that claim. If we get another 500 supporters to the games field it will be because the team are playing better. Can you just see the Stranger, the executive board, the cic board, the St. Mirren board all trying to take credit for the increase in income that that would bring! Cos pardners the team and the manager are so far down the food chain here that they almost don’t matter, which is after all what the Stranger has already told a number of our fans already!

Right then cowpokes, for the record please stop accusing other posters of being me or me as being someone else. I’m not, they are not. I am me.

Methinks a bit of paranoia is a creepin in here. Deal with it.

Tapadh leibh,

Yul

…to be continued

As regards SMISA why do they still have their logo on the 10000hrs website?

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I don't agree with all that Yul says, but you gotta hand it to the ol' gunslinger, he does have an entertaining style. That and Stuart Dickson's well-contructed posts have been a welcome addition to the debates.

Although at comlpete opposite ends of the viewpoint on the CIC bid, Yul & SD have been subject to some fairly aggresive treatment on the forum (and at GHR in SD's case going by one of his recent posts - MeatPieGate), yet have as yet not resorted to answering their critics in matching style.

Good for the Forum, although Div's "outing" of the "Animal"/"Yul" matching IP address was a wee bit questionable in retrospect. I've seen a lot worse posts by aliases over the years go unpunished - although that may have been pre-Amnesty when Robert Mugabe and many others came in from the cold.

I'm just left wondering about the thinking behind someone whose aliases are muppets & cowboys. West Ham United would be a more suitable arena.

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I don't agree with all that Yul says, but you gotta hand it to the ol' gunslinger, he does have an entertaining style. That and Stuart Dickson's well-contructed posts have been a welcome addition to the debates.

Although at comlpete opposite ends of the viewpoint on the CIC bid, Yul & SD have been subject to some fairly aggresive treatment on the forum (and at GHR in SD's case going by one of his recent posts - MeatPieGate), yet have as yet not resorted to answering their critics in matching style.

Good for the Forum, although Div's "outing" of the "Animal"/"Yul" matching IP address was a wee bit questionable in retrospect. I've seen a lot worse posts by aliases over the years go unpunished - although that may have been pre-Amnesty when Robert Mugabe and many others came in from the cold.

I'm just left wondering about the thinking behind someone whose aliases are muppets & cowboys. West Ham United would be a more suitable arena.

I'm pozbaird on here, on the feeshal' forum, on P&B, on the Denver Broncos forum, and indeed on Aberdeen's Red Web, Hibs.net, and the Morton FC Q&A forum where I joined all three to ask specific questions. Just my opinion, while regularly posting on forums is entertaining fun - if you feel the need to have multiple aliases, you deserve a slap in the ashet and a clip round the ear for a childish and un-necessary act of rampant bawbaggery, and you should seek immediate help for your problem.

Just my opinion though...and pozbaird's too. He speaks to me at night.

Edited by pozbaird
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The thing I really don't get is that Animal/Yul does have some valid discussion points to bring to the table and would be a very welcome addition to the thread.

The problem is that Animal adopts a "I am considerably brighter than all you f**kwits" stance whilst Yul posts long winded drivel which, although entertaining to read, masks any of the serious points he is trying to make.

It's a shame that the argument against the CIC can't form a clear and coherent case outlining why the fans should be against it.

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The thing I really don't get is that Animal/Yul does have some valid discussion points to bring to the table and would be a very welcome addition to the thread.

The problem is that Animal adopts a "I am considerably brighter than all you f**kwits" stance whilst Yul posts long winded drivel which, although entertaining to read, masks any of the serious points he is trying to make.

It's a shame that the argument against the CIC can't form a clear and coherent case outlining why the fans should be against it.

It would be good if there could be a proper debate on the pro's and con's. At present the pro team have put a very good case together. It would be good if there was a champion for no to CIC so that we could consider all the pitfalls.

Is there a no to CIC champion out there. :blink:

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The thing I really don't get is that Animal/Yul does have some valid discussion points to bring to the table and would be a very welcome addition to the thread.

The problem is that Animal adopts a "I am considerably brighter than all you f**kwits" stance whilst Yul posts long winded drivel which, although entertaining to read, masks any of the serious points he is trying to make.

It's a shame that the argument against the CIC can't form a clear and coherent case outlining why the fans should be against it.

Regarding the CIC and reasoned debate, making a coherent case for or against - I've decided to stop posting any more on the matter ("Hurrah!" cries the forum......"Yeehah, ride em' out cowboy, pistol whip the Kibbles man!" cries Yul Brynner...."Get it up ye' ya' fat ginger walloper" cries St. Sid.... etc, etc.) Anyway, I just feel that we're now going round in ever-decreasing circles. My position is pretty simple, can't think of anything else I can personally add to what is an important debate.... I don't think it's perfect, I think there are issues, but I think the people behind it are genuine, motivated, qualified to make it work, and want to make it work. It's new and a bit scary, but not nearly as scary as some sort of Peter Ridsdale, Milan Mandaric, or Angelo Massone types coming out of the woodwork, being pictured wearing a black and white scarf, and selling us down the river. I already see positive signs of change in the club's off-field activities, due to the co-opting onto the board of Richard Atkinson. I reckon it is definitely worth a punt at what amounts to £2.33 a week, less than the price of a bottle of Campbell Kennedy's corporate suite Budweiser. We were stagnating as a club in off-field activities, the current BOD have done their shift, they did a blummin' good job over the piece, but it's time to move on. There's a possibility that given the 'state' of other clubs finances, while they need to cut their cloth to suit - St Mirren could actually move forward in the Scottish football food chain by simply standing still - while others fall down to meet 'our standard'. I think the CIC model, if supported and got behind in numbers, could actually provide us with a platform to show other clubs the way forward, without relying on an Eddie Thompson, Brookes Mileson, or any other number of no doubt well-meaning, but ultimately unsustainable 'sugar daddy models'.

My support of the CIC model is in no small part down to the faith and trust I am prepared to put in the main men behind the scheme. I'm sure they realise this. I'm sure they realise that if all the funding comes off, we all sign our direct debit forms, and we all do our own wee bit to help - we need them to lead from the front and demonstrate that all the Powerpoint presentations, brochures, leaflets, and talk at meetings is translated into a well-run, organised, and sustainable scheme that operates as smoothly as possible for the benefit of the club and the CIC. I suppose if Gordon Scott had taken over, and brought in his own team, I would be in the exact same situation - putting my trust in him and his new BOD to lead from the front too.

That's about it as far as I can see. I cannae' add much more to the debate from my position as a forum ginger whinger.

Get behind it, give it a fair go, do my best to help out where I can, and to see if along the way, we can work together to blow away some of the stifling negativity that is strangling Scottish football - whether that be from bombs and bigotry, Neil Doncaster being a prize fanny, or any number of other issues that would make Victor Meldrew an ideal candidate to run our national game.

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Regarding the CIC and reasoned debate, making a coherent case for or against - I've decided to stop posting any more on the matter ("Hurrah!" cries the forum......"Yeehah, ride em' out cowboy, pistol whip the Kibbles man!" cries Yul Brynner...."Get it up ye' ya' fat ginger walloper" cries St. Sid.... etc, etc.) Anyway, I just feel that we're now going round in ever-decreasing circles. My position is pretty simple, can't think of anything else I can personally add to what is an important debate.... I don't think it's perfect, I think there are issues, but I think the people behind it are genuine, motivated, qualified to make it work, and want to make it work. It's new and a bit scary, but not nearly as scary as some sort of Peter Ridsdale, Milan Mandaric, or Angelo Massone types coming out of the woodwork, being pictured wearing a black and white scarf, and selling us down the river. I already see positive signs of change in the club's off-field activities, due to the co-opting onto the board of Richard Atkinson. I reckon it is definitely worth a punt at what amounts to £2.33 a week, less than the price of a bottle of Campbell Kennedy's corporate suite Budweiser. We were stagnating as a club in off-field activities, the current BOD have done their shift, they did a blummin' good job over the piece, but it's time to move on. There's a possibility that given the 'state' of other clubs finances, while they need to cut their cloth to suit - St Mirren could actually move forward in the Scottish football food chain by simply standing still - while others fall down to meet 'our standard'. I think the CIC model, if supported and got behind in numbers, could actually provide us with a platform to show other clubs the way forward, without relying on an Eddie Thompson, Brookes Mileson, or any other number of no doubt well-meaning, but ultimately unsustainable 'sugar daddy models'.

My support of the CIC model is in no small part down to the faith and trust I am prepared to put in the main men behind the scheme. I'm sure they realise this. I'm sure they realise that if all the funding comes off, we all sign our direct debit forms, and we all do our own wee bit to help - we need them to lead from the front and demonstrate that all the Powerpoint presentations, brochures, leaflets, and talk at meetings is translated into a well-run, organised, and sustainable scheme that operates as smoothly as possible for the benefit of the club and the CIC. I suppose if Gordon Scott had taken over, and brought in his own team, I would be in the exact same situation - putting my trust in him and his new BOD to lead from the front too.

That's about it as far as I can see. I cannae' add much more to the debate from my position as a forum ginger whinger.

Get behind it, give it a fair go, do my best to help out where I can, and to see if along the way, we can work together to blow away some of the stifling negativity that is strangling Scottish football - whether that be from bombs and bigotry, Neil Doncaster being a prize fanny, or any number of other issues that would make Victor Meldrew an ideal candidate to run our national game.

Have a green dot!

Though I'll take it back if you break your promise to shut up :P

While I have a different position in that I won't be signing up to become a member of the CIC, your post makes a lot of sense, and I'd pretty much given up reading this board as there was little new coming through, and it was beginning to irritate me if I'm being honest.

I'm happy to put my trust in those who appear to be working hard to pull this off, and others who are willing to put their money - however much that might be - behind the scheme. Those who are offering their financial backing deserve great credit. As I won't be joining that number, I'm hardly in a position to whine and gnash my teeth as I don't have any alternative suggestions, although I'll obviously be watching on with interest.

I sincerely hope that this works out, and proves to be in the best interests of the club.

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obviously the CIC project proposals are and will be slow but steady progression for the club but i also feel the club is progressing on the field.good players getting longer deals thus getting a return in the investment also there is always always always the chance of good cup runs and the money that brings with it (tv/the further you go the more money you get) so that tells me that although initially the CIC money wont kick in for a few years with a huge amount of luck in 2 years time we coukd possibly be at our most strongest financially with the prospect of looking to finish in the top 4 in 3 or 4 years time (as long as,by that time,we can hold on to that managerial giant that will be DANNY LENNON)

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That's about it as far as I can see. I cannae' add much more to the debate from my position as a forum ginger whinger.

While I completely agree with your sentiment, there are always going to be people who are harder to convince. I think there are genuinely a lot of people out there who think that someone will come in, buy the shares and invest millions directly into the club budget. To accept the CIC, you first have to accept that's not going to happen which will be an issue for some people.

Because this scheme doesn't involve putting directly into the club (which you can argue is the best thing about it), people are naturally going to wonder exactly where their money will go. After all investing in the CIC is half the price of a season ticket and you don't get the 28 and 1/2 hours of pain and suffering to go with it.

In addition there are a lot people who think that there must be something in it for Richard Atkinson.

These reasons are why I think that there is still plenty of scope for debate.

Also the CIC is not a completely formed idea, it relies on us all getting involved and contributing ideas. I think there is plenty of scope for debate about this too. So for me there is still plenty of reason for debate.

The idea of posing as a cowboy and posting a lot of incomprehensible drivel on here is ludicrous though. It simply serves to parody everyone else on here who is genuinely sceptical about the CIC, which makes it much harder for anyone to get their point across.

As you point out, the alternatives to the CIC are not likely to be better but I think there are always going to be people who will need a lot of convincing.

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While I completely agree with your sentiment, there are always going to be people who are harder to convince. I think there are genuinely a lot of people out there who think that someone will come in, buy the shares and invest millions directly into the club budget. To accept the CIC, you first have to accept that's not going to happen which will be an issue for some people.

Because this scheme doesn't involve putting directly into the club (which you can argue is the best thing about it), people are naturally going to wonder exactly where their money will go. After all investing in the CIC is half the price of a season ticket and you don't get the 28 and 1/2 hours of pain and suffering to go with it.

In addition there are a lot people who think that there must be something in it for Richard Atkinson.

These reasons are why I think that there is still plenty of scope for debate.

Also the CIC is not a completely formed idea, it relies on us all getting involved and contributing ideas. I think there is plenty of scope for debate about this too. So for me there is still plenty of reason for debate.

The idea of posing as a cowboy and posting a lot of incomprehensible drivel on here is ludicrous though. It simply serves to parody everyone else on here who is genuinely sceptical about the CIC, which makes it much harder for anyone to get their point across.

As you point out, the alternatives to the CIC are not likely to be better but I think there are always going to be people who will need a lot of convincing.

Agree with all of that, take a green dot !

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In addition there are a lot people who think that there must be something in it for Richard Atkinson.

Yet in the modern area of the internet where people have learned to research what colour of boxers their new striker likes to wear you would think they would have managed to figure it out by now!

How no-one can see how having a high profile CIC development might benefit a company who's own website shows that construction projects in the sports arena have brought in some £14.2m in contracts to them in recent years it beyond me.

Talk to anyone involved in amateur or junior football at any level and the complaint that is common to every community and every town is that the facilities in the area are not good enough. Read Henry McLeish's report and it's clear we need much more investment in a greater number of all weather pitches. Then join the dots and see how clubs are being encouraged to go down the Sports Enterprise Network route to generate funds to build their own facilities.

Now consider the advantage gained if you are involved in the first CiC project to buy a top flight senior team as the figurehead, having build a team of contacts around you that makes you the one stop shop for every club considering going down this route.

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It would be good if there could be a proper debate on the pro's and con's. At present the pro team have put a very good case together. It would be good if there was a champion for no to CIC so that we could consider all the pitfalls.

Is there a no to CIC champion out there. :blink:

The problem is that anyone who dares post an alternative viewpoint or ask a question gets shouted down and abused.

I'm open minded about the whole thing but with regards to "debate", Yul seems to be raising very reasonable and serious questions and doing it in a very entertaining style!

I haven't really read anything from the supporters of the cic to convince me in favour of it. Indeed, most of the abuse and mud slinging they dish out actually does it no favours.

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The problem is that anyone who dares post an alternative viewpoint or ask a question gets shouted down and abused.

I'm open minded about the whole thing but with regards to "debate", Yul seems to be raising very reasonable and serious questions and doing it in a very entertaining style!

I haven't really read anything from the supporters of the cic to convince me in favour of it. Indeed, most of the abuse and mud slinging they dish out actually does it no favours.

A post I agree with 100%, which is a worrying event for both of us - have a green dot :unsure:

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The problem is that anyone who dares post an alternative viewpoint or ask a question gets shouted down and abused.

I'm open minded about the whole thing but with regards to "debate", Yul seems to be raising very reasonable and serious questions and doing it in a very entertaining style!

I haven't really read anything from the supporters of the cic to convince me in favour of it. Indeed, most of the abuse and mud slinging they dish out actually does it no favours.

I'm of entirely the same mind. I remain unconvinced.

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The problem is that anyone who dares post an alternative viewpoint or ask a question gets shouted down and abused.

I'm open minded about the whole thing but with regards to "debate", Yul seems to be raising very reasonable and serious questions and doing it in a very entertaining style!

I haven't really read anything from the supporters of the cic to convince me in favour of it. Indeed, most of the abuse and mud slinging they dish out actually does it no favours.

Each to their own I suppose.

I find it pretty cringeworthy really.

If the concerns were clearly outlined and a name put to the posts,then I might take them more seriously.

While I recognise the concerns against the CiC,the fact that no group or individual has publically identified themselves and prefers to sling mud against the CiC anonymously does them no favours at all.

If they did identify themselves and we saw what type of individuals they were,then it would add more credence to their arguments.Until then, we don't really know what their agenda is or to quote a well used phrase "What's in it for them?".

At present I'm for the CiC,and one reason for that is the way that the case against has been presented.

So far I haven't signed anything, so I have committed no money to the CiC.If the detractors wish to persuade me and probably quite a few others not to contribute,then it's blatantly obvious what they need to do.

However, that could of course lead to their affairs being scrutinised and potential comments being made about their integrity or intentions Still, if they feel that strongly about the club and everything's above board,then I'm sure they'll have nothing to worry about.

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The wicket is beginning to look stickier! :(

With respect to funding and getting actual commitment from businesses etc. then you could say that.

If funding is not secured then the CiC' dies on it's arse and it's back to financial stagnation.i.e. as we were.

However, look how protracted Craig Whyte's take over became, as an example of just how difficult it is to meet deadlines.Albeit, that was on a much bigger scale.

I'd be very surprised if a bid like the CiC, involving so many agencies, could be timetabled with any degree of accuracy.

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The problem is that anyone who dares post an alternative viewpoint or ask a question gets shouted down and abused.

I'm open minded about the whole thing but with regards to "debate", Yul seems to be raising very reasonable and serious questions and doing it in a very entertaining style!

I haven't really read anything from the supporters of the cic to convince me in favour of it. Indeed, most of the abuse and mud slinging they dish out actually does it no favours.

Nonsense, I have even went to the trouble of forming reasonable questions from the bile that has been posted and suggested the posters stick it in the Q&A thread.....they never bother.

If you believe there are good points in Yul's posts, repost them in a format that other forum members might appreciate and be more inclined to discuss. :)

Edited by St. Sid
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