FTOF Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 If I have said anything which is untrue then please let me know and I will make changes to my post accordingly. I think you'll know better than me whether you've said anything untrue in your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rea Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) Sorry to disappoint you all but there is no conspiracy, let me explain. You will firstly notice this is coming from my personal forum account rather than 10000hours. This is because the financial transaction that I will discuss in a moment has nothing to do with 10000hours. The transaction which has resulted in the noted charge is purely a matter of the Board of St Mirren FC running the club. So what is all this about: The club as a result of the stadium move etc has been due a tax rebate of over 100K. This was expected to be in around about March 2011, but as happens with these things it took longer than intended, no fault of the club. Some of you may have an understanding of the bugeting process that a football club goes through and the schedueling of payments that come to the club from the likes of the SPL etc. Obviously the club at the beginning of the season budgeted on the tax return being in before the end of the season 2010/2011 and as it is in the best interests of the club to make sure it can spend as much money as it has avaliable on the product on the park this money was factored into the equation. However when the money did not come in as planned, and indeed was going to be significantly delayed the Board of Directors have to take the responsibilty to sort out any potential short term cash flow position that may end up happening Normally what would happen is that your Board members would all put a few thousand pounds of their own money in on a short term basis to get over any blip that may occur. (This is one of those things that BOD tend not to get any credit for when people are commenting on what they do for the club.) However the board decided that as we were in the middle of the takeover that we hoped would complete before the end of the season (rather than as is now scheduled June) that having individual directors writting money into the club could lead to some confusion and I was happy that instead Maxi Group would lend a very small amount of money on a short term basis into the club so that if cash flow became a problem while we were waiting on the Tax refund then we would be able to pay suppliers and not let anyone down. On the basis that we knew the tax refund was coming but just not in the timescale we hoped this seemed resonable. However for one Ltd company to lend to another it all needs to be done legally and above board and so the debt is registered as a charge on St Mirren FC. Now the payment from the Tax man arrived in on Monday and so the charge will shortly be removed and the money that was put in to prevent any cash flow issues for St Mirren and thus affect the clubs local suppliers, will be paid back. It is just as simple as that. Edited May 27, 2011 by rea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Buddie Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Sorry to disappoint you all but there is no conspiracy, let me explain. You will firstly notice this is coming from my personal forum account rather than 10000hours. This is because the financial transaction that I will discuss in a moment has nothing to do with 10000hours. The transaction which has resulted in the noted charge is purely a matter of the Board of St Mirren FC running the club. So what is all this about: The club as a result of the stadium move etc has been due a tax rebate of over 100K. This was expected to be in around about March 2012, but as happens with these things it took longer than intended, no fault of the club. Some of you may have an understanding of the bugeting process that a football club goes through and the schedueling of payments that come to the club from the likes of the SPL etc. Obviously the club at the beginning of the season budgeted on the tax return being in before the end of the season 2011/2012 and as it is in the best interests of the club to make sure it can spend as much money as it has avaliable on the product on the park this money was factored into the equation. However when the money did not come in as planned, and indeed was going to be significantly delayed the Board of Directors have to take the responsibilty to sort out any potential short term cash flow position that may end up happening Normally what would happen is that your Board members would all put a few thousand pounds of their own money in on a short term basis to get over any blip that may occur. (This is one of those things that BOD tend not to get any credit for when people are commenting on what they do for the club.) However the board decided that as we were in the middle of the takeover that we hoped would complete before the end of the season (rather than as is now scheduled June) that having individual directors writting money into the club could lead to some confusion and I was happy that instead Maxi Group would lend a very small amount of money on a short term basis into the club so that if cash flow became a problem while we were waiting on the Tax refund then we would be able to pay suppliers and not let anyone down. On the basis that we knew the tax refund was coming but just not in the timescale we hoped this seemed resonable. However for one Ltd company to lend to another it all needs to be done legally and above board and so the debt is registered as a charge on St Mirren FC. Now the payment from the Tax man arrived in on Monday and so the charge will shortly be removed and the money that was put in to prevent any cash flow issues for St Mirren and thus affect the clubs local suppliers, will be paid back. It is just as simple as that. Cheers for clearing it up, but we WILL need to get you to be more direct and to the point with your communications... Could have just said 'Needed the money for the tax credit we were due up front, other directors didn't want to put cash in, I offered some cash through Maxi Group to tide it over, everyone accepted, and now the tax credit's been paid, the charge will be coming off. Simple. ' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 The CIC doesn't have to go tits up for St. Mirren to have to pay the money back. Company B can ask for it back whenever in accordance with the loan agreement, whether the CIC is a success or not. RA is a Director of the CIC, which is buying St. Mirren, which he is also a Director of, who have taken a loan from Company B, who he may also be a director of. He doesn't own any St. Mirren shares so he would stand to lose £0 if Company B decided to recall the loan and St. Mirren goes tits up. He has also invested £0 in the CIC which would own St. Mirren, so would stand to lose £0 of his hard earned cash. If I have said anything which is untrue then please let me know and I will make changes to my post accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 I would recommend that you call companies house and have them explain what a charge is before you get too excited 0131 535 5847 gets you to thier charge dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Sorry to disappoint you all but there is no conspiracy, let me explain. You will firstly notice this is coming from my personal forum account rather than 10000hours. This is because the financial transaction that I will discuss in a moment has nothing to do with 10000hours. The transaction which has resulted in the noted charge is purely a matter of the Board of St Mirren FC running the club. So what is all this about: The club as a result of the stadium move etc has been due a tax rebate of over 100K. This was expected to be in around about March 2012, but as happens with these things it took longer than intended, no fault of the club. Some of you may have an understanding of the bugeting process that a football club goes through and the schedueling of payments that come to the club from the likes of the SPL etc. Obviously the club at the beginning of the season budgeted on the tax return being in before the end of the season 2011/2012 and as it is in the best interests of the club to make sure it can spend as much money as it has avaliable on the product on the park this money was factored into the equation. However when the money did not come in as planned, and indeed was going to be significantly delayed the Board of Directors have to take the responsibilty to sort out any potential short term cash flow position that may end up happening Normally what would happen is that your Board members would all put a few thousand pounds of their own money in on a short term basis to get over any blip that may occur. (This is one of those things that BOD tend not to get any credit for when people are commenting on what they do for the club.) However the board decided that as we were in the middle of the takeover that we hoped would complete before the end of the season (rather than as is now scheduled June) that having individual directors writting money into the club could lead to some confusion and I was happy that instead Maxi Group would lend a very small amount of money on a short term basis into the club so that if cash flow became a problem while we were waiting on the Tax refund then we would be able to pay suppliers and not let anyone down. On the basis that we knew the tax refund was coming but just not in the timescale we hoped this seemed resonable. However for one Ltd company to lend to another it all needs to be done legally and above board and so the debt is registered as a charge on St Mirren FC. Now the payment from the Tax man arrived in on Monday and so the charge will shortly be removed and the money that was put in to prevent any cash flow issues for St Mirren and thus affect the clubs local suppliers, will be paid back. It is just as simple as that. Green dot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 You say the money has been delayed and was received on Monday - but also say it was due in March 2012 and was budgeted to arrive by the end of the 2011/12 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rea Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 You say the money has been delayed and was received on Monday - but also say it was due in March 2012 and was budgeted to arrive by the end of the 2011/12 season. My mistake should read 2011 and I have changed it on the original post. As regards the budget it is as stated we budgeted for it coming in duriing season 2011/12. We expected it in during March 2011. It actually arrived after the season finshed on Monday past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) My mistake should read 2011 and I have changed it on the original post. As regards the budget it is as stated we budgeted for it coming in duriing season 2011/12. We expected it in during March 2011. It actually arrived after the season finshed on Monday past. Fair enough, although for future referenc season just finished is 2010/11 and we're about to start 2011/12 ;) That's where I got confused - although confusing me is fairly easy Edited May 27, 2011 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Very good post Richard. I think it'll be things like this which will turn the whole CIC venture in to quite a learning experience for a lot of the members. It's not just, and never will be, about "hoi, how much goes on the park?". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Very good post Richard. I think it'll be things like this which will turn the whole CIC venture in to quite a learning experience for a lot of the members. It's not just, and never will be, about "hoi, how much goes on the park?". Indeed it was extremely helpful. Long may it last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 When I moved house the last time, how come I didnae' get 100k from the taxman? Poor show. I'm turning myself into a football club tomorrow and moving again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 If I was a worrier I'd assume that this means our budget will be slashed by £100k next season, but I am guessing that most if not all of that went on paying off the old management team ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 If I was a worrier I'd assume that this means our budget will be slashed by £100k next season, but I am guessing that most if not all of that went on paying off the old management team ? div, from my understand of things from this thread it seems the following has happened: Club due £100k from Mr Taxman in March 2011. Cash hasn't arrived by April 2011 so Maxi Group lends the club the £100k Mr Taxman gets his finger out in May 2011 and hands over the £100k Club hands over £100k to Maxi Group and all debts are off. Does this mean things are so tight that if we unexpectedly find ourselves £100k down (say because games are cancelled) we suddenly need loans - a bit worrying if true because there was the unexpected budget boost of a cup game on BBC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 div, from my understand of things from this thread it seems the following has happened: Club due £100k from Mr Taxman in March 2011. Cash hasn't arrived by April 2011 so Maxi Group lends the club the £100k Mr Taxman gets his finger out in May 2011 and hands over the £100k Club hands over £100k to Maxi Group and all debts are off. Does this mean things are so tight that if we unexpectedly find ourselves £100k down (say because games are cancelled) we suddenly need loans - a bit worrying if true because there was the unexpected budget boost of a cup game on BBC. Your summary of events is correct. It also means the £100k we were due from Mr Taxman was part of our budget for last year, ergo our budget next year will be £100k lighter as this is a one off rebate. Of course paying off the old management team was a one off cost too, so perhaps it's swings and roundabouts. The club run an incredibly tight ship, cashflow problems are common, and the current board have regularly dipped into their own pockets to keep us running smoothly over the last three seasons. The problem with having no debt is that nobody will lend you any money, so cashflow problems can't be easily overcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Your summary of events is correct. It also means the £100k we were due from Mr Taxman was part of our budget for last year, ergo our budget next year will be £100k lighter as this is a one off rebate. Of course paying off the old management team was a one off cost too, so perhaps it's swings and roundabouts. The club run an incredibly tight ship, cashflow problems are common, and the current board have regularly dipped into their own pockets to keep us running smoothly over the last three seasons. The problem with having no debt is that nobody will lend you any money, so cashflow problems can't be easily overcome. I'm with you now. Does seem that's £100k to come off next year's budget, but as you pointed out there should be £100k less going out the way too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ds10 Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Thanks to Richard and everyone else for clearing that up. I think I just about understand what all that was about. Does sound like we will be 100K worse off next season! We'll just have to up Darren McGregor's price a little bit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whosyirdaddy Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Emails are coming out in the next hour or so but you are right, the sign up process is finally underway I've asked on several occasions elsewhere what happens to those who can't print these forms off or who can't access online ? I thought that's why our home addresses were asked for ? what other reason should our home address be required if all information and transactions seem to be getting carried out by online media approach ? P.S. - My printer is Gubbed can someone post me out a mandate..... hope you catch my point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Urquhart Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 REA = good guy. However, no one has asked the most important question yet, what does the 'E' stand for? I think we should be told..........Eric? Ernie? Engelbert? Something embarrassing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 REA = good guy. However, no one has asked the most important question yet, what does the 'E' stand for? I think we should be told..........Eric? Ernie? Engelbert? Something embarrassing? Equestrian? Evil? Errthemacaroonbarsandraspeeeermintchooooingguuum? I need caffeine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 REA = good guy. However, no one has asked the most important question yet, what does the 'E' stand for? I think we should be told..........Eric? Ernie? Engelbert? Something embarrassing? Another one that hasn't done their CIC homework. It stands for Elliot...like the dippy blonde in Scrubs. I got it off his prison record - think it was a conviction for gaining money by deception. That is a joke by the way, just to clarify as some of the dissentors wild allegations are just as daft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Urquhart Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Another one that hasn't done their CIC homework. It stands for Elliot...like the dippy blonde in Scrubs. I got it off his prison record - think it was a conviction for gaining money by deception. That is a joke by the way, just to clarify as some of the dissentors wild allegations are just as daft. Thats a bit disappointing in a way, you could have let that run for a bit, ya bubble burster........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Thats a bit disappointing in a way, you could have let that run for a bit, ya bubble burster........... okay.....we can still play.....I'll go for Edna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 I've asked on several occasions elsewhere what happens to those who can't print these forms off or who can't access online ? I thought that's why our home addresses were asked for ? what other reason should our home address be required if all information and transactions seem to be getting carried out by online media approach ? P.S. - My printer is Gubbed can someone post me out a mandate..... hope you catch my point I've asked if we can have a Q&A night at the stadium, the aim will be that on the night people can complete the form there and then. They should maybe also have a pile of forms at reception in the stadium that folk could drop by and fill in I guess. Only takes 2 mins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) okay.....we can still play.....I'll go for Edna. Hi Sid. Yes, it would appear to be Elliot http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/1e57517c013852b0725590dfaef0e86b/wcprodorder?ft=1 I wonder what this company is for. Edited May 27, 2011 by animal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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