The Club Buy Out - 10000 Hours

[div]

I appreciate the response Div.

You clearly know a great deal more about the background and mechanics of this situation than I do, so I'm happy to defer.

I suppose the main thrust of my point was that there has been a great deal of discussion as to how many people will follow up their pledges with DD mandates, and how many corporate and community organisations will sign up, while the grants and loans haven't been confirmed as yet. I just seemed to me that these has been an element of having taken for granted the fact that the funding to buy out the consortium would be in place. I'm a bit sceptical by nature, so this has always been at the forefont of my mind when thinking about the vialbility of the 10000Hours plan.

All that said, I very much hope that there are no snags with the funding, as a great deal of time and effort has gone into getting this initiative off the ground, and it would be a damn shame if didn't come to pass as a result of political considerations taking place at a level way beyond the local community - which, after all, lies at the heart of the plans.

Think it has been a delicate balancing act.

Funders want to see that the interest is there before they commit.

Punters want to know that the funding is going to come through before they commit.

I'd like to think that of 721 pledges that at least half will be adult members who will follow up by sending off the DD. That would be sufficient to get the project off and running, IF the funding comes though of course.

As Fras, who has unfortunately binned the forum now, has pointed out, the fact of the matter is that the more buddies that sign up, the less chance there is of the project failing or worse still not getting airborne at all.

[animal]

We have generally kept away from the answering questions put on the discussion threads and tried our best to answer the questions specifically asked in the Q & A thread.

However folk seem to be posting more and more questions in the discussion thread, we thought we would answer this particular one first.

"is this scheme all that it appears ?"

We believe that having had 6 months + worth of meetings and (if memory serves) 4 presentataions with SMiSA, 2 public presentations, 1 presentation to the club AGM, 1 presentation to the a shareholders meeting and a presentation to an invited meeting of the travel club plus a general open door policy on anyone who wants to have a one to one meeting, that this scheme is what it appears to be to the 700+ people who have thus far pledged and who are now sending in their Direct Debit mandates.

We accept that you believe it is not what it appears to be..............assuming that by wording your statement that way that you are assuming a hidden negative. e.g "the scheme appears to be good, but that is not what it really is"?

So we will make the offer we have made elsewhere and several times , but very specifically to yourself and any others how still don't believe the motives are good and our plan sound..........e-mail us at [email protected] and set up a meeting at which we can show you the paperwork, all the business plans in as much detail as you want and ask us all the questions you can and if you are not happy with the answers then from a postion of knowing all the info then feel free to disagree with the plan.

So it is upto you, do you want to sit down with the info, study the detail and come to your own conclusion about the 10000hours team and the proposal based on as much information as possible?

We hope you do and hope to hear from you and of course anyone else whenever you are ready.

10000hours CIC

Dear Mr. A,

I attended one of your presentations. I am clear that I already fully understand the scheme. I would have perhaps attended the shareholder's meeting but my invitation arrived on the day of the meeting ! I am sure you have many PROJECTIONS and ESTIMATES in your business plan. I have written many similar documents over the years and I am sure I could prove virtually any end result I wished.

I see no real point in meeting you. My opposition to this scheme is fundamental. I am opposed to the use of some £2,000,000 of taxpayers cash to buy out the directors of a limited company, even one that I have supported for over 40 years. You appear to have convinced a number of the Club's supporters to pay off the loan part of this scheme. I find this unacceptable.

It seems that you have managed to persuade some of my fellow supporters to give you their hard earned cash for what appears to me, very little return. I do not wish to be involved in any way especially with this part of your scheme. Some of them can ill afford to contribute.

I have another difficulty - in the use of Kibble's resources, including some very vulnerable children in this venture.

If this scheme comes to fruition, you and some of your business colleagues will form the 'executive board' and will be able to run every aspect of the Club. The CIC board and the SMFC board will be virtually powerless. You and the executive board will control a £4,000,000 company without spending very much.

I sincerely hope I am wrong but I fear that I may well be proved right.

[civilsaint]

Looks like Animal doesn't want to know the details, just incase they don't suit his agenda.

[civilsaint]

..

Edited June 2, 2011 by civilsaint

[Stuart Dickson]

We have to start somewhere Stu. And as you pointed out on a previous post we need to be thinking bigger than the market stall.

You need to break the CIC process of engagement down.

First of all we have an underutilised asset in the stadium. The community recognises an opportunity to use that facility. There's the win-win.

We have a training centre fully utilised. No opportunity there.

However, we have a lot of unused space around the stadium. If there is a desire from local football for this land to be utilised for the benefit of the juvenile footballing community then we will be able to attract additional funding to develop this land and build a community facility.

Like I said, I think the CIC / St Mirren taking over the management of footballing facilities of Renfrewshire could be a very logical step in development of football in the area. I am I worried about getting £500 from the OF supporting committee of juvenile football clubs....nope, not in the slightest. Perhaps the P&D League or whatever it is these days would be a good shout for the CIC. They get to use the facility for their prize givings / committee meetings / fund raisers, etc and mibbae extend that to their clubs getting access to the facility for going rate. Could be wrong, but I think St Mirren chasing each individual juvenile club for their £500 a year would not be a good use of our resources.

Yeah I think you are wrong St Sid. I think that each individual club has a shared interest and a shared need that is common with St Mirren FC. They all need kit, they all need sponsorship, and they all need facilities. They offer the potential of a supply of talented kids into the senior clubs pro youth programmes, and kids who would be most likely to be interested in attending Community Coaching Courses at Easter or during the Summer. They also offer qualified coaches which could be used by the senior club to make their reach far more widespread by running St Mirren football academies in Dunbartonshire, Lanarkshire, West Lothian, Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, Glasgow - indeed anywhere you have a Quality Marked juvenile football club who can see an attraction in joining 10000 hours CIC. You've also then created a ready made market for a potentially lucrative tournament hosted by St Mirren where all the Juvenile Football Club Community members can compete against each other. And that's me just scratching the surface of the potential in there.

Targeting the league itself is fair enough, but ignoring the huge potential from individual clubs is just lunacy.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Stuart Dickson

[St. Sid]

Yeah I think you are wrong St Sid. I think that each individual club has a shared interest and a shared need that is common with St Mirren FC. They all need kit, they all need sponsorship, and they all need facilities. They offer the potential of a supply of talented kids into the senior clubs pro youth programmes, and kids who would be most likely to be interested in attending Community Coaching Courses at Easter or during the Summer. They also offer qualified coaches which could be used by the senior club to make their reach far more widespread by running St Mirren football academies in Dunbartonshire, Lanarkshire, West Lothian, Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, Glasgow - indeed anywhere you have a Quality Marked juvenile football club who can see an attraction in joining 10000 hours CIC. You've also then created a ready made market for a potentially lucrative tournament hosted by St Mirren where all the Juvenile Football Club Community members can compete against each other. And that's me just scratching the surface of the potential in there.

Targeting the league itself is fair enough, but ignoring the huge potential from individual clubs is just lunacy.

Sadly you are beginning to denegrate into the lawfud character again. Let me explain....the lawfud character suffers from a narcissistic disorder. This is characterised by you being prone to "crusade" mentality. Not a bad thing in itself and when in lawstud mode it can actually be quite useful; however when lawfud - your Mr Hyde kicks in your cerdability very quickly ends up in the shitter. Why is that so St Sid you now want to know?

Let's look at the traits of the narcissistic disorder sufferer - although I would argue that it is the experiencers of the narcissistic bawbags behaviour that are the sufferers.

Let's start with Freud's theory on you:

"A pattern of traits and behaviors which signify infatuation and obsession with one's self to the exclusion of all others and the egotistic and ruthless pursuit of one's gratification, dominance and ambition. . . . An all-pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behaviour), need for admiration or adulation and lack of empathy, usually beginning by early adulthood and present in various contexts. Five (or more) of the following criteria must be met:"

"Feels grandiose and self-important"

Your buffonary is unsurpassed.

"Is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, . . ."

nuff said.

"Firmly convinced that he or she is unique and, being special, can only be understood by, should only be treated by, or associate with, other special or unique, or high-status people (or institutions)"

This is classic lawfud. Rather than appeal to the genral consensus and work with that, any contention no matter how mild is escalated to blah, blah.

"Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation - or, failing that, wishes to be feared and to be notorious (narcissistic supply)"

This is the key transition point in the lawstud to lawfud schizophrenia episodes.

"Feels entitled. Expects unreasonable or special and favorable priority treatment. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or her expectations."

It looks we have yet another lawfud crusade brewing that will end in the toys being thrown out of the pram again.

"Devoid of empathy. Is unable or unwilling to identify with or acknowledge the feelings and needs of others."

Once the crusade mentality kicks in no one, no thing and certainly no club matters.

"Constantly envious of others or believes that they feel the same about him or her."

Enough will never be enough for the poor tortured soul as he always sees himself through the eyes of what he would like to be.

"Arrogant, haughty behaviours or attitudes coupled with rage when frustrated, contradicted, or confronted."

Dunno if he is ever reached violent tendencies in the midst of the biggest ever Saints related huff in history.

That being said......back to the point.

We are actually on common ground Stu although your narcissism is not allowing you to see it. I agree entirely with the importance of St Mirren being at the centre of football in Renfrewshire as well as the general community. My point is that I think we should be planning bigger than just trying to develop a way to get £500 out of the juve clubs. The big prize has to be in St Mirren / CICs ability to raise significant funding for social development projects. Rather than trying to torture existing uitlised resources we should be looking at bringing in additional investment to support community football in our area. The CIC model provides multiple strands of opportunity to develop football in our area. We do have existing resources in the club, we can as you rightly say tap into further resources in the community; however the MASSIVE opportunity is going to be in terms of how we fund initiatives - this is the element that was not open to us before as SMFC Ltd. And as I said before, could we do a more effective, efficient and productive job of running Renfrewshire's football initiatives than the c"ntcil......I would think so - would they be up for that idea - dunno.

There's lots to be getting on with and this is just one area - but like most supporters SMFC is the number one priority, and making the first steps towards realising the CIC is critical. Once we have that then the possibilities are phenomenal as your example of just a single, but important area exemplifies.

So reign in your narcissistic lawfud persona and bring back the lawstud character and you might just make some progress with your ideas.

[Stuart Dickson]

Sadly you are beginning to denegrate into the lawfud character again. Let me explain....the lawfud character suffers from a narcissistic disorder. This is characterised by you being prone to "crusade" mentality. Not a bad thing in itself and when in lawstud mode it can actually be quite useful; however when lawfud - your Mr Hyde kicks in your cerdability very quickly ends up in the shitter. Why is that so St Sid you now want to know?

Let's look at the traits of the narcissistic disorder sufferer - although I would argue that it is the experiencers of the narcissistic bawbags behaviour that are the sufferers.

Let's start with Freud's theory on you:

"A pattern of traits and behaviors which signify infatuation and obsession with one's self to the exclusion of all others and the egotistic and ruthless pursuit of one's gratification, dominance and ambition. . . . An all-pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behaviour), need for admiration or adulation and lack of empathy, usually beginning by early adulthood and present in various contexts. Five (or more) of the following criteria must be met:"

"Feels grandiose and self-important"

Your buffonary is unsurpassed.

"Is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, . . ."

nuff said.

"Firmly convinced that he or she is unique and, being special, can only be understood by, should only be treated by, or associate with, other special or unique, or high-status people (or institutions)"

This is classic lawfud. Rather than appeal to the genral consensus and work with that, any contention no matter how mild is escalated to blah, blah.

"Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation - or, failing that, wishes to be feared and to be notorious (narcissistic supply)"

This is the key transition point in the lawstud to lawfud schizophrenia episodes.

"Feels entitled. Expects unreasonable or special and favorable priority treatment. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or her expectations."

It looks we have yet another lawfud crusade brewing that will end in the toys being thrown out of the pram again.

"Devoid of empathy. Is unable or unwilling to identify with or acknowledge the feelings and needs of others."

Once the crusade mentality kicks in no one, no thing and certainly no club matters.

"Constantly envious of others or believes that they feel the same about him or her."

Enough will never be enough for the poor tortured soul as he always sees himself through the eyes of what he would like to be.

"Arrogant, haughty behaviours or attitudes coupled with rage when frustrated, contradicted, or confronted."

Dunno if he is ever reached violent tendencies in the midst of the biggest ever Saints related huff in history.

That being said......back to the point.

We are actually on common ground Stu although your narcissism is not allowing you to see it. I agree entirely with the importance of St Mirren being at the centre of football in Renfrewshire as well as the general community. My point is that I think we should be planning bigger than just trying to develop a way to get £500 out of the juve clubs. The big prize has to be in St Mirren / CICs ability to raise significant funding for social development projects. Rather than trying to torture existing uitlised resources we should be looking at bringing in additional investment to support community football in our area. The CIC model provides multiple strands of opportunity to develop football in our area. We do have existing resources in the club, we can as you rightly say tap into further resources in the community; however the MASSIVE opportunity is going to be in terms of how we fund initiatives - this is the element that was not open to us before as SMFC Ltd. And as I said before, could we do a more effective, efficient and productive job of running Renfrewshire's football initiatives than the c"ntcil......I would think so - would they be up for that idea - dunno.

There's lots to be getting on with and this is just one area - but like most supporters SMFC is the number one priority, and making the first steps towards realising the CIC is critical. Once we have that then the possibilities are phenomenal as your example of just a single, but important area exemplifies.

So reign in your narcissistic lawfud persona and bring back the lawstud character and you might just make some progress with your ideas.

Dunno what your problem is Sid. Of course I'm the Special One that should be listened to, obeyed and worshipped or feared at all costs. Where you've got it wrong is that there is no-one of equal status to me

If you have another wee shifty at my post you'll see I said that targeting the league itself is fair enough - of course it is and if you can get the council to hand over all it's pitch liabilities to 10000hours I'm sure it could be done better. I've absolutely no problem with any of that - indeed it would be good if the Scottish Government just gave up with local authorities and handed everything over to SEN's and CICs who would undoubtedly do a better job whilst saving everyone a fortune in council tax.

Where I took issue with you was when you said that targeting juvenile football clubs wouldn't be a good use of resources. That is lunacy.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Stuart Dickson

[St. Sid]

Dunno what your problem is Sid. Of course I'm the Special One that should be listened to, obeyed and worshipped or feared at all costs. Where you've got it wrong is that there is no-one of equal status to me

If you have another wee shifty at my post you'll see I said that targeting the league itself is fair enough - of course it is and if you can get the council to hand over all it's pitch liabilities to 10000hours I'm sure it could be done better. Where I took issue with when you said that targeting juvenile football clubs wouldn't be a good use of resources. That is lunacy.

There you go again with your Mr Hyde lawfudness.........

A good use of what resources though?

I think you made an important point in another thread, or might have been this one about the CIC being a bit the wrong way round. I disagree, I think the best way for it to develop is organically. The reality is that they had to make decisions based on low hanging fruit. Relationships they already had in place that would be likely to sign up to what is very much a balancing act in terms of securing funding at the same time as proving community support. If you had been setting up the CIC you may have generated the community membership via your own network of contacts in juvenile football. As the network within the CIC grows so will the network into the community, bringing in more ideas like yours to generate further members and income generating MoU. It is all good.

So no contention, if you have the contacts and the MoU plans to make it work then that is great news. However, if it involves an already maxed out resource at Ralston then the MoU doesn't work for SMFC. That is when we need to think of another way to provide a lucrative MoU and that might be to look at socially funding a custom built resource for community football.

[Stuart Dickson]

There you go again with your Mr Hyde lawfudness.........

A good use of what resources though?

I think you made an important point in another thread, or might have been this one about the CIC being a bit the wrong way round. I disagree, I think the best way for it to develop is organically. The reality is that they had to make decisions based on low hanging fruit. Relationships they already had in place that would be likely to sign up to what is very much a balancing act in terms of securing funding at the same time as proving community support. If you had been setting up the CIC you may have generated the community membership via your own network of contacts in juvenile football. As the network within the CIC grows so will the network into the community, bringing in more ideas like yours to generate further members and income generating MoU. It is all good.

So no contention, if you have the contacts and the MoU plans to make it work then that is great news. However, if it involves an already maxed out resource at Ralston then the MoU doesn't work for SMFC. That is when we need to think of another way to provide a lucrative MoU and that might be to look at socially funding a custom built resource for community football.

To answer that i'd need to credit a Roy Clunie from Atlantic Community Leisure yesterday who said that you need to offer whatever the community groups need whether that be dealing with their administration, getting them kit and equipment, offering transport solutions, or securing a facility for them to train and play. He was talking about multiple sports clubs that came through the doors of his SEN Community Leisure Centre which has been running for 19 years and which has grown beyond belief. The example I gave of the pitch at Ralston was a hypothetical example of the kind of dilemmas that may be faced by the St Mirren Ltd Board when it's elected where it may be better to give the occasional concession to achieve the bigger results.

You might well be right about the low hanging fruit. The problem with that however is that if the low hanging fruit don't have the ability to get up to the fruit higher up the tree the opportunity to pick them will eventually just rot and disintegrate.

[St. Sid]

You might well be right about the low hanging fruit. The problem with that however is that if the low hanging fruit don't have the ability to get up to the fruit higher up the tree the opportunity to pick them will eventually just rot and disintegrate.

Yes, yes...but, when the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea. Thank you very much.

If the proposer is a cockoo living up a kebab tree the chances of picking any fruit will be limited; however if its nuts you're after......

[ds10]

thats good to hear

with the greatest of respect and not doubting this is your experience but

I've not heard 1 single uttering from RA or the CIC team as to their ambitions for the St Mirren football team

Its a real pity and I do hope the motives and priorities are well placed enough to have a positive spin off for the team - would much rather the emphasis was the other way round or at least equalised!

I agree with you Gary - I'm broadly supportive of the CIC plan, and have found RA himself to be well worthy of my trust, and for me to give the bloke my backing, but I've been a Saints fan since 1977, and if the CIC does not replace SG and Co with a successful and sustainable new platform for the benefit of the football club - then it has failed, no matter any off field successes in the sphere of community engagement.

If the deal concludes - I go along every week to applaud the players on the park, not the people in the boardroom!

Moved this from the Q and A thread.

I don't think you are being entirely fair to Richard Atkinson and some of the other members of 10000Hours here. I would say that there are genuinely convinced that this will have a positive effect on the football club. And that sustaining and protecting the football club is the main aim of what they are trying to do.

I think the community angle is simply an effective and desirable means to do this.

I would say it's worth bearing in mind that Richard Atkinson has spent a year and a half working on a plan which he genuinely considers to be in the best interests of St. Mirren. I think there are not many other fans that can match that level of commitment.

[kenbud]

I am still very positive and have been from the start about the potential community benefits of St Mirren football club being a Paisley community hub bringing groups together and expanding on the great work of the exsisting community team.

Personally I agree with some of the sentiment that we as fans have to buy into the bigger picture to fully realise this potential, its not enough just to run a members bar on match day and hope a couple of weddings and funerals a year will make us a community. we need to utilised the members enthusiasm and expertise to come up with unique and beneficial ideas that will deliver for the community and the football club.

Picking up perhaps wrongly on one of Stuarts points on youth teams gaining access to ralston, as the pro-youth teams are already using the 3G pitch 7 nights of the week we dont have the capacity at ralston to accommodate the extra use.

Solution: Build another one at Greenhill Road

Looking at the concept drawing from the offical site there were supposed to be another couple up the top so lets build a half sized 3G pitch for use by youth teams Monday to Friday. You then follow the Spartan Model here of running St Mirren in the community type street Friday and Saturday night.

Whats the advantage to St Mirren? Because we can its the only way we will ever deliver One Town One Team by involving the town in more than just shit football on the park.

We get some of the advantages listed earlier by providing support to local teams and expanding our scouting network.

You can never have to many training parks?

We can offset some of the social interest on outstanding grants by proving our social benefit of St Mirren being part of the community

[Stuart Dickson]

Yes, yes...but, when the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea. Thank you very much.

If the proposer is a cockoo living up a kebab tree the chances of picking any fruit will be limited; however if its nuts you're after......

....I know where to get you?

[reborn saint]

....I know where to get you?

Posting this on here away from the qa thread in reply to your answer regarding the negativity regarding the cic. Thanks for the response and looking at it the reasons are only a condition of the complexities of trying to do something which has never been done before. Whatever you do in your spare time to make you anything less than reputable has no bearing on here as i have found your posts both truthful and informative. You are prepared to back the cic but will also raise any issues you think are important. I am on here mainly to find out things about the cic that i don't already know and as a consequence looking for any hidden negatives (which i can't find). I am resting easy again after reading your explanation so it's all steam ahead for me and i can't wait till it happens!

[Stuart Dickson]

I am still very positive and have been from the start about the potential community benefits of St Mirren football club being a Paisley community hub bringing groups together and expanding on the great work of the exsisting community team.

Personally I agree with some of the sentiment that we as fans have to buy into the bigger picture to fully realise this potential, its not enough just to run a members bar on match day and hope a couple of weddings and funerals a year will make us a community. we need to utilised the members enthusiasm and expertise to come up with unique and beneficial ideas that will deliver for the community and the football club.

Picking up perhaps wrongly on one of Stuarts points on youth teams gaining access to ralston, as the pro-youth teams are already using the 3G pitch 7 nights of the week we dont have the capacity at ralston to accommodate the extra use.

Solution: Build another one at Greenhill Road

Looking at the concept drawing from the offical site there were supposed to be another couple up the top so lets build a half sized 3G pitch for use by youth teams Monday to Friday. You then follow the Spartan Model here of running St Mirren in the community type street Friday and Saturday night.

Whats the advantage to St Mirren? Because we can its the only way we will ever deliver One Town One Team by involving the town in more than just shit football on the park.

We get some of the advantages listed earlier by providing support to local teams and expanding our scouting network.

You can never have to many training parks?

We can offset some of the social interest on outstanding grants by proving our social benefit of St Mirren being part of the community

I wondered if it was possible to reconfigure the three rather silly looking pitches to make two regulation seven-a-side pitches so that all age groups could use the pitch for training, and younger age groups could use the pitches at the weekend to play their fixtures. You're right about midnight leagues and the opportunity for funding, but you could also look at the Public Contract Scotland website and see if there are any contracts the club could tender for - perhaps helping a local primary school fulfil it's sports curriculum with a facility and a community coach, or opening the facility for streetsoccer or for the after school safe football area for the kids in the Ferguslie Park area for free.

[pozbaird]

Stuart,

Reconfigure the 3 'silly looking' pitches? Well, excuse me, but only 2 weeks ago I, along with 9 fellow 'feeshal forumsters' utilised these silly pitches by booking them for our forum 5s game. Far from being silly, they are the optimum compact size for the aeging, waistline expanding, skill level receeding, follically challenged forum fivester.

The club made money, there was genuine supporter involvement, interaction with the community, and, following the game, interaction with the Royal Alexandria Infirmary for 6 close-to-death puffed-oot auld timers.

Yet you wish to turf us off and get rid of the pitches? Shame on you. So much for your 'community credentials' ya' charlatan! Boo!

[ktf]

Stuart,

Reconfigure the 3 'silly looking' pitches? Well, excuse me, but only 2 weeks ago I, along with 9 fellow 'feeshal forumsters' utilised these silly pitches by booking them for our forum 5s game. Far from being silly, they are the optimum compact size for the aeging, waistline expanding, skill level receeding, follically challenged forum fivester.

The club made money, there was genuine supporter involvement, interaction with the community, and, following the game, interaction with the Royal Alexandria Infirmary for 6 close-to-death puffed-oot auld timers.

Yet you wish to turf us off and get rid of the pitches? Shame on you. So much for your 'community credentials' ya' charlatan! Boo!

The RAI... haha, isn't that flats now... Or derelict?! Or Both? Both!

[pozbaird]

The RAI... haha, isn't that flats now... Or derelict?! Or Both? Both!

Feck sake... The RAH then. Jesus mate, when you're receiving life saving heart massage after trying to play fitba' at nearly 50 years of age, a typo' error in a future forum post is the last thing on yer' mind! Haaaa!

[Drew]

Far from being silly, they are the optimum compact size for the aeging, waistline expanding, skill level receeding, follically challenged forum fivester.

To whom, exactly, are you referring, Sir?!?!

I just have a high forehead....

[St. Sid]

Stuart,

Reconfigure the 3 'silly looking' pitches? Well, excuse me, but only 2 weeks ago I, along with 9 fellow 'feeshal forumsters' utilised these silly pitches by booking them for our forum 5s game. Far from being silly, they are the optimum compact size for the aeging, waistline expanding, skill level receeding, follically challenged forum fivester.

Surely a blessing for gingys.

[YulBrynner]

Jeepers pardners,

A week and a half away, the bronco almost broke down and the varmits on the webby thing are at it again.

I thought that we was a speekin inglish.

Try this for size and all in darned fact sized, bite sized pieces just like mama used to make! It looks a bit like a recipe too, a recipe for disaster.

A football is round.

The Stranger never talks football.

We are a football club.

The cic does not discuss football.

Our first duty is to our supporters, to be the best football team possible.

We are a football club.

That is what we do. That is what we are. That does not matter one itty bitty bit to the Stranger.

The cic will lead to less dollars to spend on the team as it meets its interest on borrowings out of the fans’ pockets.

The cic will be unable to fund promotion if we were to be demoted.

Working ‘within budget’ really means accepting your place at whatever level you find Saints playing at. A second division budget in the second division.

The fans won’t own St. Mirren. Read that again.

The fans are doin the Stranger’s work for him and happily admit that some other fans have signed up without having heard of the cic until the day before. This is presented as a good thing!

The cic depends on blind faith.

The pro-fans have produced every excuse under the blazin Texican sun for any delays or shortcomings from the Stranger, time after time, after time.

The pro-fans talk about Saints being a cic.

Saints won’t be a cic.

Spartans are a cic. One hundred percent.

Stenhousemuir are a cic. One hundred percent.

Saints will be a football club, with an OUTSIDE company that SOME OF OUR FANS HAVE CHOSEN TO FUND holding 52% of the controlling shares. Those fans will be members of that outside body. Nothing else. Nothing more.

Around three times more Saints fans will remain as shareholders than fund the cic repayments for the Stranger, so that this self-claimed multi-millionaire doesn’t have to put in so much as a nickel. There’s a screenplay in here somewhere.

The shareholders are therefore more representative of the fans than the cic will be. No dispute there. So will the non cic members. So will the season ticket holders.

Saints are already owned by the fans. Some fans have more shares than others.

The fans will meet the Stranger’s costs for him as he tells them they will have a say in the club. They believe this kind of stuff, some of them. They really do!

They won’t. They will have at best the same power as a disenfranchised shareholder.

What kind of say do fans really expect to get for ten greenbacks a month, come on!

Some fans have been made promises of positions of influence. Beads for the natives.

Some others have been offered a seat on the board, below the board, below the real board for their support.

The Stranger won’t invest in the club.

The fans are bankrolling the Stranger’s experiment.

The Stranger must be laughing at them - all the way back from the bank.

Welcome to the world of a poorer, possibly permanent lower league St. Mirren.

Welcome to the world of the Stranger.

Do we really have to telegraph this in capitals, do we really have to spell it out?

D A N G E R

Regard this as negative all you promoters of the outside company that will control your football club. When you lose interest, when you decide to stop bankrolling this joyride, when you have contributed to locking your football club into a straitjacket like this, how will you feel looking in from the outside like the rest of us?

Will you all post on here to say you were a part of this if it does go through? Or will you take some solace from the fact that we can help retrain some Kibble Kids?

Will you stick around for the next ten years? Will you? And then what?

Or will you just shrug them ol shoulders and say as you do in the ol country, oh well it didnae work. What time is the supporters cart to Station Park?

The Stranger sits and watches as forums fill with I hope, I guess, I assume, we think etc.

This is not a negative telegram, just an observation from all seven of us down here at the telegraph shack.

Have someone translate, or maybe actually make the effort to understand our posts. Either that or just colour this in. None of the Magnificent Seven’s questions have been answered. Not by one pesky poster. And you can all damned well read too.

Shame on you all for being willing to take this kind of Stranger’s risk with our damned football club, for being happy to see fellow supporters who have helped the club survive in the past ‘shafted’ as one former club secretary put it at one of the Stranger’s meetings at SMP, and for paying a ten dollar bill to give the Stranger this privilege each and every month.

Gee pardners, just one other thing. Try buying a Saints scarf in this township. Marketing expert? Don’t make us laugh.

Yul, no ful.

TBC

[St. Sid]

Jeepers pardners,

A week and a half away, the bronco almost broke down and the varmits on the webby thing are at it again.

I thought that we was a speekin inglish.

Try this for size and all in darned fact sized, bite sized pieces just like mama used to make! It looks a bit like a recipe too, a recipe for disaster.

A football is round.

The Stranger never talks football.

We are a football club.

The cic does not discuss football.

Our first duty is to our supporters, to be the best football team possible.

We are a football club.

That is what we do. That is what we are. That does not matter one itty bitty bit to the Stranger.

The cic will lead to less dollars to spend on the team as it meets its interest on borrowings out of the fans’ pockets.

The cic will be unable to fund promotion if we were to be demoted.

Working ‘within budget’ really means accepting your place at whatever level you find Saints playing at. A second division budget in the second division.

The fans won’t own St. Mirren. Read that again.

The fans are doin the Stranger’s work for him and happily admit that some other fans have signed up without having heard of the cic until the day before. This is presented as a good thing!

The cic depends on blind faith.

The pro-fans have produced every excuse under the blazin Texican sun for any delays or shortcomings from the Stranger, time after time, after time.

The pro-fans talk about Saints being a cic.

Saints won’t be a cic.

Spartans are a cic. One hundred percent.

Stenhousemuir are a cic. One hundred percent.

Saints will be a football club, with an OUTSIDE company that SOME OF OUR FANS HAVE CHOSEN TO FUND holding 52% of the controlling shares. Those fans will be members of that outside body. Nothing else. Nothing more.

Around three times more Saints fans will remain as shareholders than fund the cic repayments for the Stranger, so that this self-claimed multi-millionaire doesn’t have to put in so much as a nickel. There’s a screenplay in here somewhere.

The shareholders are therefore more representative of the fans than the cic will be. No dispute there. So will the non cic members. So will the season ticket holders.

Saints are already owned by the fans. Some fans have more shares than others.

The fans will meet the Stranger’s costs for him as he tells them they will have a say in the club. They believe this kind of stuff, some of them. They really do!

They won’t. They will have at best the same power as a disenfranchised shareholder.

What kind of say do fans really expect to get for ten greenbacks a month, come on!

Some fans have been made promises of positions of influence. Beads for the natives.

Some others have been offered a seat on the board, below the board, below the real board for their support.

The Stranger won’t invest in the club.

The fans are bankrolling the Stranger’s experiment.

The Stranger must be laughing at them - all the way back from the bank.

Welcome to the world of a poorer, possibly permanent lower league St. Mirren.

Welcome to the world of the Stranger.

Do we really have to telegraph this in capitals, do we really have to spell it out?

F A N N Y S L A B B E R

Regard this as negative all you promoters of the outside company that will control your football club. When you lose interest, when you decide to stop bankrolling this joyride, when you have contributed to locking your football club into a straitjacket like this, how will you feel looking in from the outside like the rest of us?

Will you all post on here to say you were a part of this if it does go through? Or will you take some solace from the fact that we can help retrain some Kibble Kids?

Will you stick around for the next ten years? Will you? And then what?

Or will you just shrug them ol shoulders and say as you do in the ol country, oh well it didnae work. What time is the supporters cart to Station Park?

The Stranger sits and watches as forums fill with I hope, I guess, I assume, we think etc.

This is not a negative telegram, just an observation from all seven of us down here at the telegraph shack.

Have someone translate, or maybe actually make the effort to understand our posts. Either that or just colour this in. None of the Magnificent Seven’s questions have been answered. Not by one pesky poster. And you can all damned well read too.

Shame on you all for being willing to take this kind of Stranger’s risk with our damned football club, for being happy to see fellow supporters who have helped the club survive in the past ‘shafted’ as one former club secretary put it at one of the Stranger’s meetings at SMP, and for paying a ten dollar bill to give the Stranger this privilege each and every month.

Gee pardners, just one other thing. Try buying a Saints scarf in this township. Marketing expert? Don’t make us laugh.

Yul, no ful.

TBC

Fixed it for you.

[Vambo57]

Fixed it for you.

succinctly put Sid

[aldo_j]

Jeepers pardners,

Hunners of baw slabbering.

Ignoring the inaccuracies in your post, what do you suggest as an alternative?

Your post only ever contain criticisms of RA or the CIC but I've yet to see you put forward a valid alternative.

Try spinning another yarn

Edited June 9, 2011 by davidg

[Reynard]

Jeepers pardners,

A week and a half away, the bronco almost broke down and the varmits on the webby thing are at it again.

I thought that we was a speekin inglish.

Try this for size and all in darned fact sized, bite sized pieces just like mama used to make! It looks a bit like a recipe too, a recipe for disaster.

A football is round.

The Stranger never talks football.

We are a football club.

The cic does not discuss football.

Our first duty is to our supporters, to be the best football team possible.

We are a football club.

That is what we do. That is what we are. That does not matter one itty bitty bit to the Stranger.

The cic will lead to less dollars to spend on the team as it meets its interest on borrowings out of the fans’ pockets.

The cic will be unable to fund promotion if we were to be demoted.

Working ‘within budget’ really means accepting your place at whatever level you find Saints playing at. A second division budget in the second division.

The fans won’t own St. Mirren. Read that again.

The fans are doin the Stranger’s work for him and happily admit that some other fans have signed up without having heard of the cic until the day before. This is presented as a good thing!

The cic depends on blind faith.

The pro-fans have produced every excuse under the blazin Texican sun for any delays or shortcomings from the Stranger, time after time, after time.

The pro-fans talk about Saints being a cic.

Saints won’t be a cic.

Spartans are a cic. One hundred percent.

Stenhousemuir are a cic. One hundred percent.

Saints will be a football club, with an OUTSIDE company that SOME OF OUR FANS HAVE CHOSEN TO FUND holding 52% of the controlling shares. Those fans will be members of that outside body. Nothing else. Nothing more.

Around three times more Saints fans will remain as shareholders than fund the cic repayments for the Stranger, so that this self-claimed multi-millionaire doesn’t have to put in so much as a nickel. There’s a screenplay in here somewhere.

The shareholders are therefore more representative of the fans than the cic will be. No dispute there. So will the non cic members. So will the season ticket holders.

Saints are already owned by the fans. Some fans have more shares than others.

The fans will meet the Stranger’s costs for him as he tells them they will have a say in the club. They believe this kind of stuff, some of them. They really do!

They won’t. They will have at best the same power as a disenfranchised shareholder.

What kind of say do fans really expect to get for ten greenbacks a month, come on!

Some fans have been made promises of positions of influence. Beads for the natives.

Some others have been offered a seat on the board, below the board, below the real board for their support.

The Stranger won’t invest in the club.

The fans are bankrolling the Stranger’s experiment.

The Stranger must be laughing at them - all the way back from the bank.

Welcome to the world of a poorer, possibly permanent lower league St. Mirren.

Welcome to the world of the Stranger.

Do we really have to telegraph this in capitals, do we really have to spell it out?

D A N G E R

Regard this as negative all you promoters of the outside company that will control your football club. When you lose interest, when you decide to stop bankrolling this joyride, when you have contributed to locking your football club into a straitjacket like this, how will you feel looking in from the outside like the rest of us?

Will you all post on here to say you were a part of this if it does go through? Or will you take some solace from the fact that we can help retrain some Kibble Kids?

Will you stick around for the next ten years? Will you? And then what?

Or will you just shrug them ol shoulders and say as you do in the ol country, oh well it didnae work. What time is the supporters cart to Station Park?

The Stranger sits and watches as forums fill with I hope, I guess, I assume, we think etc.

This is not a negative telegram, just an observation from all seven of us down here at the telegraph shack.

Have someone translate, or maybe actually make the effort to understand our posts. Either that or just colour this in. None of the Magnificent Seven’s questions have been answered. Not by one pesky poster. And you can all damned well read too.

Shame on you all for being willing to take this kind of Stranger’s risk with our damned football club, for being happy to see fellow supporters who have helped the club survive in the past ‘shafted’ as one former club secretary put it at one of the Stranger’s meetings at SMP, and for paying a ten dollar bill to give the Stranger this privilege each and every month.

Gee pardners, just one other thing. Try buying a Saints scarf in this township. Marketing expert? Don’t make us laugh.

Yul, no ful.

TBC

Tedious c**t