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The Club Buy Out - 10000 Hours


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what do you suggest as an alternative?

I've yet to see you put forward a valid alternative.

.

Loads have people have been saying this sort of thing but finding an alternative would be up to the selling consortium, not YulBrynner. Just because he is against the CIC doesn't mean he must put forward a valid alternative.

If the CIC wasn't supported then the current BOD would remain in charge until they find an alternative.

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Loads have people have been saying this sort of thing but finding an alternative would be up to the selling consortium, not YulBrynner. Just because he is against the CIC doesn't mean he must put forward a valid alternative.

If the CIC wasn't supported then the current BOD would remain in charge until they find an alternative.

Except that the board might feel justified in thinking "You've had your chance, now we're just selling to the highest bidder".

And the highest bidder wouldn't necessarily have the best interests of the club at heart. They will after all be obtaining a facility which cost £14 million or so to build for a price of about £2 million.

Hence the need to find a suitable alternative.

The current board have absolutely no need to find an alternative which is in the best interests of the club.

Edited by ds10
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Except that the board might feel justified in thinking "You've had your chance, now we're just selling to the highest bidder".

And the highest bidder wouldn't necessarily have the best interests of the club at heart. They will after all be obtaining a facility which cost £14 million or so to build for a price of about £2 million.

Hence the need to find a suitable alternative.

The current board have absolutely no need to find an alternative which is in the best interests of the club.

That's true however the red herring is the value of the stadium. It doesn't matter how much it cost to build at all the real value is what someone would be prepared to pay for it. I'd say £4m for the whole package is at the top end but it's more or less right. I don't think the current board are likely to get more than the CIC offer from anyone.

I guess the question St Mirren fans have to ask themselves is would they rather St Mirren were owned by someone who is there to make a profit or do they want St Mirren to be owned and controlled by a not for profit organisation that they hold a stake in.

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The cic will be unable to fund promotion if we were to be demoted.

Working ‘within budget’ really means accepting your place at whatever level you find Saints playing at. A second division budget in the second division.

So what you really want above all is somebody willing to come in and splash cash we don't have? And you're giving us lectures about how our football club should be run? Shame on us? Shame on you.

Edited by KennyW
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Loads have people have been saying this sort of thing but finding an alternative would be up to the selling consortium, not YulBrynner. Just because he is against the CIC doesn't mean he must put forward a valid alternative.

If the CIC wasn't supported then the current BOD would remain in charge until they find an alternative.

Perhaps I should rephrase it, in the eyes of Yul how should the club be taken forward if he does not feel that the CIC is the best model?

Does he think someone like Angelo Massone be a better option than the CIC?

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A football is round.

The Stranger never talks football.

We are a football club.

The cic does not discuss football.

Our first duty is to our supporters, to be the best football team possible.

We are a football club.

The Stranger and the CIC have discussed football, there was an entire section on how the CIC could drive the club towards a raise in the playing budget. Just how is that not football? Will Brooks discussed nothing but football prior to MYFC taking over Ebbsfleet United and then showed absolutely no business knowledge whatsoever, didn't seem to care about the project AND had the cheek to take a wage.

Just how much do you want? Do you want the Craig Whyte "yes eh, well, I've spoken with Alistair and we're going to front load the budget with around £15 million for signings"? Of course, you'd not be so silly as to beilieve that means 15 million in fees of course. Maybe you want a promise of being in the top league, potential of European qualification, a new ground and a training complex...oh wait, we already have them. Surely to God you don't expect Richard to come out and say "we're going to go with the 4-4-2, Potter leaving makes it easier to do that, with wingers and a target man up top." Also, he's not going to come out and promise big name signings as that's for us to do. That's the spooky bit though isn't it, the bit where if you're playing FM 11 you just load up the real time editor and cheat a little. It could also be you're just slevering and don't actually know what you want, because you haven't had to give it much thought before and just believe it all happens automatically "oooh, it's only 50K for a player a season" or "ach, he'll surely bring fans in...it's a win win signing!" running through your mind as you look out on the park just expecting that spark Fergie's team had, whilst also failing to register that you'd have ripped just about every one of Fergie's signings to ribbons had this forum been around back then.

"Our first duty is to our supporters, to be the best football team possible." - Indeed, so why not find a way to place the club in the hands of the fans. The term about the best team possible has a number of qualifiers... do we want to be in debt, do we want to risk losing the stadium, do we want to spend so much chasing a dream that the nightmare becomes the constant, do we want to lose all control, would we be happy with a token board seat from a shady owner or are we just going to be realistic being just a few possible qualifiers.

"We are a football club." - Indeed, but we're a Scottish football club and one that needs to look at what's out there. I have a mental image of a crowd, placards in hand, the cry "We want to be a football club, what does that mean, erm!" cutting it's way through the air as passers by look the other way, no doubt laughing.

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That's true however the red herring is the value of the stadium. It doesn't matter how much it cost to build at all the real value is what someone would be prepared to pay for it. I'd say £4m for the whole package is at the top end but it's more or less right. I don't think the current board are likely to get more than the CIC offer from anyone.

I guess the question St Mirren fans have to ask themselves is would they rather St Mirren were owned by someone who is there to make a profit or do they want St Mirren to be owned and controlled by a not for profit organisation that they hold a stake in.

OK it's a kind of red herring. However still means somebody could get hold of an asset worth considerably more than the purchase price of £2 million.

Stewart Gilmour stated at a couple of the CIC meetings that they had been offered considerably more than the 2 million by other parties. I don't think the purchase price makes a lot of difference.

Nobody would buy St. Mirren to try and make a profit out of running a football club, in my opinion. If the purchase price was low enough they could conceivably buy it to sell off the assets.

I think the important thing from the club point of view is to try and up the finances of the club in a sustainable manner.

Even in the extremely unlikely event that somebody bought the club with several million to invest directly in the budget, what would the club do when that ran out? And even worse what if the investor decided they wanted their money back? It would be easy to end up in situation like Gretna. One advantage of the CIC is that it would prevent something like that happening.

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Well i only sjgned up to discuss the cic and yea it is. Theres one question i would like you 2 to answer. Why would a successful buisness man with a company 10 times the size of St Mirren risk damaging his reputation by pretending to offer something which then turns out to be a con and sees him sieze the club at the expense of the fans?

Good point young man.

Its becoming increasingly obvious that this "Animal" alias of someone else is quite unhinged.

The cic is easy, like it then join it, don't like it then don't.

Posters like "Animal" only serve to damage the club and the cic as some genuine people will have read his posts without realising he is in fact a loon. The cic is happening whether people like it or not. I will support it and do everything that I can to help make it work. If it fails then at least I tried.

The CIC needs the support of decent St Mirren fans. Lets MAKE this work!

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The fans won’t own St. Mirren.

The cic depends on blind faith.

The pro-fans talk about Saints being a cic.

Saints won’t be a cic.

Spartans are a cic. One hundred percent.

Stenhousemuir are a cic. One hundred percent.

Saints will be a football club, with an OUTSIDE company that SOME OF OUR FANS HAVE CHOSEN TO FUND holding 52% of the controlling shares. Those fans will be members of that outside body. Nothing else. Nothing more.

These bits are true as far as my understanding goes.

The members won't own St Mirren. They will be the members of the company that owns a 52% controlling stake in St Mirren. It will allow members to elect the CIC board in it's entirety and it will give them a majority vote on the St Mirren Ltd board. Whether that's more or less representative of the entire St Mirren support depends on the number of St Mirren supporting members that 10000hours attract into the scheme but I wouldn't imagine any of that is new news to anyone.

There is also a great deal of blind faith involved in the 10000 hour proposal. I'd totally agree with that. The problem is that RA and 10000hours currently cannot formulate the package to reward the members beyond saying they will have a vote in any election of members to the board. The reason for that is that until they gain control of St Mirren Ltd and have an elected board in place any assets that are on site aren't their to offer out. It's a frustration for me as someone who could bring a community member into the project but for an individual member it's an opportunity. If they are signing up to effectively donate £10 per month in return for access to a bar imagine the bonus if their elected board then decide that they can add on free access to the car park on match days or offer vouchers allowing free accompanied admission for children to certain matches to members only.

Some fans have been made promises of positions of influence. Beads for the natives.

Some others have been offered a seat on the board, below the board, below the real board for their support.

Have they? Can you provide evidence? I'd find that interesting....

Edited by Stuart Dickson
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OK it's a kind of red herring. However still means somebody could get hold of an asset worth considerably more than the purchase price of £2 million.

Stewart Gilmour stated at a couple of the CIC meetings that they had been offered considerably more than the 2 million by other parties. I don't think the purchase price makes a lot of difference.

Nobody would buy St. Mirren to try and make a profit out of running a football club, in my opinion. If the purchase price was low enough they could conceivably buy it to sell off the assets.

I think the important thing from the club point of view is to try and up the finances of the club in a sustainable manner.

Even in the extremely unlikely event that somebody bought the club with several million to invest directly in the budget, what would the club do when that ran out? And even worse what if the investor decided they wanted their money back? It would be easy to end up in situation like Gretna. One advantage of the CIC is that it would prevent something like that happening.

ds10 for a long time now I've taken much of what Gilmour says with a pinch of salt. I'm not claiming inside knowledge but I've found he has a history of dressing up situations to make them look prettier than they are. I'd find it pretty remarkable if there was a substantially higher offer on the table for the full 52% and the consortium stuck together to reject it.

Apart from that I agree with your post completely. More and more clubs are drawing that conclusion too and they are realising that the best way to go is back in history to a time when football clubs really were owned by members. I think it's a very positive move and as I've said for a while now I'd love to see it happen at St Mirren. I think the potential is massive if the right people are put in place and the project is done honestly and without the continual rhetoric we've heard from previous football boards.

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Yet again a poster - YulBrynner - makes a very good post, raising lost of sensible and reasonable concerns.

Yet again, the pro-cic brigade direct abuse at him - and fail to counter a single point he has raised.

As I have said before, I om the sidelines on this subject and am waiting to see what happens. I'd like the cic to be a raging success - but I have the very same concerns that YulBrynner raises.

What I can say for certain however is that the pro-cic brigade do their cause no good on this forum by the way they abuse fellow posters - and by their lack of sensible discussion.

There are a lot of folk out there who read this forum and share Yul's concerns - and shake their heads at the reaction of the pro-cic brigade to anyone who dares voice a concern.

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ds10 for a long time now I've taken much of what Gilmour says with a pinch of salt. I'm not claiming inside knowledge but I've found he has a history of dressing up situations to make them look prettier than they are.

What, like his outrageous claims that he could clear the club's £3 million debt, build a brand new stadium, build a brand new training complex and establish the club in the SPL?

Wait a minute................

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There are a lot of folk out there who read this forum and share Yul's concerns - and shake their heads at the reaction of the pro-cic brigade to anyone who dares voice a concern.

Gary, Yul posted openly slating anybody who backed the move. He used the phrase "shame on you" and advocated what in my opinion is a short sighted approach of spending big regardless of turnover. Has he not heard of Gretna, Airdrie, Livingston, Palace, Pompey, Wimbledon, Dundee, Bournemouth... It seems that while we all accept there are flaws in the CIC he believes his own ideas are flawless.

I don't believe anybody NOT backing the CIC should feel ashamed. Everybody has a right to their own views. What is inflamatory is patronising language and the suggestion that anybody who doesn't believe RA is Lucifer incarnated is an idiot. Frankly, yes that attitude pisses me off.

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Yet again a poster - YulBrynner - makes a very good post, raising lost of sensible and reasonable concerns.

Yet again, the pro-cic brigade direct abuse at him - and fail to counter a single point he has raised.

As I have said before, I om the sidelines on this subject and am waiting to see what happens. I'd like the cic to be a raging success - but I have the very same concerns that YulBrynner raises.

What I can say for certain however is that the pro-cic brigade do their cause no good on this forum by the way they abuse fellow posters - and by their lack of sensible discussion.

There are a lot of folk out there who read this forum and share Yul's concerns - and shake their heads at the reaction of the pro-cic brigade to anyone who dares voice a concern.

And of course Yul does get involved in sensible discussion.

f**king behave yourself.dry.gif

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Yet again a poster - YulBrynner - makes a very good post, raising lost of sensible and reasonable concerns.

Yet again, the pro-cic brigade direct abuse at him - and fail to counter a single point he has raised.

As I have said before, I om the sidelines on this subject and am waiting to see what happens. I'd like the cic to be a raging success - but I have the very same concerns that YulBrynner raises.

What I can say for certain however is that the pro-cic brigade do their cause no good on this forum by the way they abuse fellow posters - and by their lack of sensible discussion.

There are a lot of folk out there who read this forum and share Yul's concerns - and shake their heads at the reaction of the pro-cic brigade to anyone who dares voice a concern.

Gary if you are like me and came on here to look at the negatives of the cic (which there are) then you are backing the wrong cowboy. Yule ran out of bullets a long time ago and then started soiling his hands by scratching in the mud for something else to throw. He came up with the vulnerable kids at the kibble (shame on him). If you read his rant you will see he is in fact not against the cic but as a shareholder in St Mirren wants £20 per share for his minority holding putting the cost of a buyover at £4000,000. It means nothing to him that a minority shareholding is worthless and that no matter who buys St Mirren it will still be worthless. He just can't get his head around the fact that for £10 per month a cic member can elect a board. There are some others on here who i agree have been given too much of a hard time by St Sid etc.....but no Gary not him.....or should i say they.

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What, like his outrageous claims that he could clear the club's £3 million debt, build a brand new stadium, build a brand new training complex and establish the club in the SPL?

Wait a minute................

Meanwhile a group with the clubs interest at heart were stalled over investing as a share price couldn't be determined.

Shades of grey.

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Yet again a poster - YulBrynner - makes a very good post, raising lost of sensible and reasonable concerns.

Yet again, the pro-cic brigade direct abuse at him - and fail to counter a single point he has raised.

As I have said before, I om the sidelines on this subject and am waiting to see what happens. I'd like the cic to be a raging success - but I have the very same concerns that YulBrynner raises.

What I can say for certain however is that the pro-cic brigade do their cause no good on this forum by the way they abuse fellow posters - and by their lack of sensible discussion.

There are a lot of folk out there who read this forum and share Yul's concerns - and shake their heads at the reaction of the pro-cic brigade to anyone who dares voice a concern.

Starting to think you are Yul. :o

You appeared shortly after his last fannyslabber and said pretty much the same thing. You were asked to outine the points and were never seen again. If you can see points for discussion in Yuls post then pluck them out and explain why they concern you. Then we can all abuse you too.......I cannae wait!!! :bounce3:bounce4:bounce2:bounce1

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Good point young man.

Its becoming increasingly obvious that this "Animal" alias of someone else is quite unhinged.

The cic is easy, like it then join it, don't like it then don't.

Posters like "Animal" only serve to damage the club and the cic as some genuine people will have read his posts without realising he is in fact a loon. The cic is happening whether people like it or not. I will support it and do everything that I can to help make it work. If it fails then at least I tried.

The CIC needs the support of decent St Mirren fans. Lets MAKE this work!

If i told you i travelled to pittodrie stadium with the league title at stake and we missed out by 6 points can i still be classed as young?

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Here it is.... The complete buskers guide to the no campaign.

(1) I will say no cause i will

(2) I will say no cause I cannae trust anyone with money cause they only want more money

(3) I will say no cause although i don't know if it will be good or bad there's no way i'm giving that bas***d Stewart Gilmour any money

(4) I will say know because as a shareholder within a minority i want £20 a share

(5) I will say no cause there's a guy who's Richard's brother and he's gonna steal all the money from the bar.

(6) I will say no cause i need more explanation, i know where to find it but i am too shy/scared/can't be bothered to chap Richards door.

(7) I will say no cause if everything goes well no one will notice what i said, and if it goes wrong i can get my soap box out and shout "I told you so!"

(8) I will say no cause no matter what Richard says he's lying... i have no proof mind but he is

(9) I will say no cause i have infiltrated your site and am generaly worried of how strong St Mirren can be

(10) Think thats it

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Here it is.... The complete buskers guide to the no campaign.

(1) I will say no cause i will

(2) I will say no cause I cannae trust anyone with money cause they only want more money

(3) I will say no cause although i don't know if it will be good or bad there's no way i'm giving that bas***d Stewart Gilmour any money

(4) I will say know because as a shareholder within a minority i want £20 a share

(5) I will say no cause there's a guy who's Richard's brother and he's gonna steal all the money from the bar.

(6) I will say no cause i need more explanation, i know where to find it but i am too shy/scared/can't be bothered to chap Richards door.

(7) I will say no cause if everything goes well no one will notice what i said, and if it goes wrong i can get my soap box out and shout "I told you so!"

(8) I will say no cause no matter what Richard says he's lying... i have no proof mind but he is

(9) I will say no cause i have infiltrated your site and am generaly worried of how strong St Mirren can be

(10) I will say no because I am a fan of my own fannyslabber

(11)I will say no because it might threaten my opportunity for sausage roll thievary

(12)I will say no as I have delusions of business acumen in more than one of my multiple personalities

(13)I will say no because Stewart Gilmour used to pull my pigtails at school

I have added some more you missed. :wink:

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Gary if you are like me and came on here to look at the negatives of the cic (which there are) then you are backing the wrong cowboy. Yule ran out of bullets a long time ago and then started soiling his hands by scratching in the mud for something else to throw. He came up with the vulnerable kids at the kibble (shame on him). If you read his rant you will see he is in fact not against the cic but as a shareholder in St Mirren wants £20 per share for his minority holding putting the cost of a buyover at £4000,000. It means nothing to him that a minority shareholding is worthless and that no matter who buys St Mirren it will still be worthless. He just can't get his head around the fact that for £10 per month a cic member can elect a board. There are some others on here who i agree have been given too much of a hard time by St Sid etc.....but no Gary not him.....or should i say they.

Hi Richard. :wink:

To be fair to you, just from reading your posts on this forum (using your different alias) and also from having spoken to you, I do actually believe you will make a success of this project.

A word of warning however - and I suspect you already have a feeling regarding this - unless you win the Champions League you will be the subject of much abuse. Saints fans have very unrealistic expectations. :P

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Hi Richard. :wink:

To be fair to you, just from reading your posts on this forum (using your different alias) and also from having spoken to you, I do actually believe you will make a success of this project.

A word of warning however - and I suspect you already have a feeling regarding this - unless you win the Champions League you will be the subject of much abuse. Saints fans have very unrealistic expectations. :P

Hi Gary ..It might be nice being Richard at times (with his bank balance and all that) but i am quite happy being me. The issue on here is about change and if we can create a bigger and better club for Paisley and Renfrewshire. I am convinced we can and we need everybody possible on board to acheive it. Are you in?

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