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Sid's a card-carrying religious zealot, with his colours nailed firmly to the cross er... mast. Far from being tolerant and sensible, he makes personal, unsubstantiated attacks on people who don't believe in fairies. Such character assassination - repeat lies often enough and some mud may stick - is a notoriously and infamously Jesuit tactic. <_<

He is still merely the same c*ltic fan that he always was, who is happily using his current St Mirren cover as a vehicle / brand for his extreme agenda of turning the secular brand of Buddism into Parkhead II.

The St bit of St Sid has always resonated with ulterior purpose.

WOW don't often see you going for the jugular.

Respect and tolerance

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I don't want any of this christian nonsense near Saint Mirren Park. I'm a Buddist too!

Nothing like a bit of intolerance. I guess you're one of those people who has no desire to increase the fan base, let alone retain the christian fans the club already has. Attitudes like yours will leave the club in the dark days.

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Nothing like a bit of intolerance. I guess you're one of those people who has no desire to increase the fan base, let alone retain the christian fans the club already has. Attitudes like yours will leave the club in the dark days.

I pretty much agree, no harm in this if it happens, certainly no need for the shock horror posts some have expressed here. :rolleyes:

Within reason any means that the club can bring in more income should be seen as a positive move.

More income = more money for the club = more funds for us to improve our squad, simples. :)

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Sid's a card-carrying religious zealot, with his colours nailed firmly to the cross er... mast. Far from being tolerant and sensible, he makes personal, unsubstantiated attacks on people who don't believe in fairies. Such character assassination - repeat lies often enough and some mud may stick - is a notoriously and infamously Jesuit tactic. <_<

He is still merely the same c*ltic fan that he always was, who is happily using his current St Mirren cover as a vehicle / brand for his extreme agenda of turning the secular brand of Buddism into Parkhead II.

The St bit of St Sid has always resonated with ulterior purpose.

Inverted conspiracy Bluto, very good... :lol:

There is a very simple difference between "us" and OF supporters. Many of our supporters do attend churches of various flavours, many do not. Unlike OF supporters there is not any pressure whatsoever on any St Mirren supporter to hate anyone. We are free to hate or like who we want as individuals and not because of the team we support. So you batter in with your muslim bashing all you want Buddie, just don't do it in the name of St Mirren. :P

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and for years just about every supporter in Scotland outwith the OF has said KEEP RELIGION OUT OF FOOTBALL.

As someone who works for a non-denominational Christian organisation I so wish people would realise that the Old Firm sectarian scandal has next to nothing to do with the Christian 'religion'. The sectarian bile they sing is basically POLITICAL and relates to whether Ireland should be united and ruled from Dublin or divided with the North continuing to be part of the UK and ruled from Westminster. The links to paramilitary support of the IRA or UVF again is a political issue rather than a religious one. I don't hear any r*ngers of c*ltic fans singing or shouting about any of the theological issues which make Protestant Christian and Catholic Christian distinct from each other: the authority of the Bible v the authority of tradition; whether it is right to call the Pope the 'head' of the church or Mary the 'Mother of God' etc.

The only concern I would have over a congregation using St Mirren's facilities to have their church meetings would be if they were at the loony tune extreme end of theological spectrum and were guilty of encouraging sectarianism

Many churches no longer meet in traditional church buildings because of the costs of maintaining an old building often built in the 18th or 19th century and not all that practical for multipurpose use today. I know of several churches in Renfrewshire meeting in school buildings or community centres or further afield there are churches meeting in coffee shops, a pub and a former cinema.

St Mirren Park's function suite has been used to host seminars and workshops for RAC and other organisations since it opened, if a church reckons the facilities would suit them then why not let them hire it as any other local business or community group could.

If a Zumba dance class were wanting to do a weekly hire would there be the same fuss?

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As someone who works for a non-denominational Christian organisation I so wish people would realise that the Old Firm sectarian scandal has next to nothing to do with the Christian 'religion'. The sectarian bile they sing is basically POLITICAL and relates to whether Ireland should be united and ruled from Dublin or divided with the North continuing to be part of the UK and ruled from Westminster. The links to paramilitary support of the IRA or UVF again is a political issue rather than a religious one. I don't hear any r*ngers of c*ltic fans singing or shouting about any of the theological issues which make Protestant Christian and Catholic Christian distinct from each other: the authority of the Bible v the authority of tradition; whether it is right to call the Pope the 'head' of the church or Mary the 'Mother of God' etc.

The only concern I would have over a congregation using St Mirren's facilities to have their church meetings would be if they were at the loony tune extreme end of theological spectrum and were guilty of encouraging sectarianism

Many churches no longer meet in traditional church buildings because of the costs of maintaining an old building often built in the 18th or 19th century and not all that practical for multipurpose use today. I know of several churches in Renfrewshire meeting in school buildings or community centres or further afield there are churches meeting in coffee shops, a pub and a former cinema.

St Mirren Park's function suite has been used to host seminars and workshops for RAC and other organisations since it opened, if a church reckons the facilities would suit them then why not let them hire it as any other local business or community group could.

If a Zumba dance class were wanting to do a weekly hire would there be the same fuss?

I enjoyed reading that Post and wanted to give you a Green Dot for it but I've ran out, sorry.

Edited by Tracy Barlow Loyal
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Inverted conspiracy Bluto, very good... :lol:

There is a very simple difference between "us" and OF supporters. Many of our supporters do attend churches of various flavours, many do not. Unlike OF supporters there is not any pressure whatsoever on any St Mirren supporter to hate anyone. We are free to hate or like who we want as individuals and not because of the team we support. So you batter in with your muslim bashing all you want Buddie, just don't do it in the name of St Mirren. :P

There you go again with your lies and your libel. Just because I can't abide any organised religion, you think it necessary to lie that I hate or would attack the people of that religion. What pleasure do you get out of such unfounded personal and vindictive nonsense?

You can take the boy out of Parkhead but you can't take the Bhoy out of Parkhead, so I should really have more respect for your personally informed knowledge of what makes us different from you OF supporters. It's being made manifest in this thread - you have a great knack for inventing lies and conspiracy and on pretending that you are on the side of those who are being offended.

Can you tell that I feel offended? Can you understand why? Or are you still so caught up in your plastic Paddy-ness that you refuse to countenance why someone else could take offence?

Just because you dislike my outspoken-ness about organised religion, really doesn't licence you to to make things up. I have never been a Muslim-basher... then again, you've never been a paragon of virtue or truth.

And a small nod of appreciation for putting the us in quotes, above. I understand. You can't ever have found it easy to be one of us. We know what we are - we don't have to keep inventing lies to make it easier to live with our 'new' selves.

To help you make up your mind on how to respond to me...

Either do as you did when you were asked exactly what was it you did after boasting about your 'involvement' in the Poll Tax Riots in London - which was not answer, go mute and slither out of the thread...

...or apologise for suggesting I hate Muslims.

Or keep on lying.

Edited by bluto
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Guest TPAFKATS

Sorry for the language...but that is just bollocks. Either you're on the wind-up or you really are an imbecile.

Why?

These are derogatory terms used to describe OF fannies. Some are also cultural / religious terms used to describe those who follow certain beliefs or hold particular views. If you are a St.Mirren fan you are not a h*n or t*m although I suppose it is conceivable that you could follow St.Mirren and still be an orangeman or a fen*an.

For what its worth, I am none of these although I may well be an imbecile...

Edited by TPAFKATS
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Why?

These are derogatory terms used to describe OF fannies. Some are also cultural / religious terms used to describe those who follow certain beliefs or hold particular views. If you are a St.Mirren fan you are not a h*n or t*m although I suppose it is conceivable that you could follow St.Mirren and still be an orangeman or a fen*an.

For what its worth, I am none of these although I may well be an imbecile...

You are not alone in that club. :wink:

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Why?

These are derogatory terms used to describe OF fannies. Some are also cultural / religious terms used to describe those who follow certain beliefs or hold particular views. If you are a St.Mirren fan you are not a h*n or t*m although I suppose it is conceivable that you could follow St.Mirren and still be an orangeman or a fen*an.

For what its worth, I am none of these although I may well be an imbecile...

I think you really need to do some research on the meaning of said expressions. And, when I say research I don't mean searching P&B. I really don't understand why you can't support St Mirren if you are a "tim", I'll need to tell a number of my friends that they are no longer welcome at St Mirren Park. :(

Your understanding leaves a lot to be desired, me thinks.

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Guest TPAFKATS

I think you really need to do some research on the meaning of said expressions. And, when I say research I don't mean searching P&B. I really don't understand why you can't support St Mirren if you are a "tim", I'll need to tell a number of my friends that they are no longer welcome at St Mirren Park. :(

Your understanding leaves a lot to be desired, me thinks.

My understanding & research are fine thanks.

I think that you may confusing the h*n / t*m terms with catholic & protestant, which is commonly done and is a sad reflection on our country.

All of this is a bit of a tangent to the original topic, which was part of the original point that I was making in my reply a few days ago.

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My understanding & research are fine thanks.

I think that you may confusing the h*n / t*m terms with catholic & protestant, which is commonly done and is a sad reflection on our country.

All of this is a bit of a tangent to the original topic, which was part of the original point that I was making in my reply a few days ago.

If you honestly think that "H**= r*ngers fan and tim = c*ltic fan then your research is fan from fine.

I still don't understand what your original point was?

Edited by civilsaint
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I have to say I feel bitterly disappointed that church services within our stadium have became an issue no matter what religion it is for.

Thought we were well above that kind of judgment whether you are a believer in religion or not.

I wrote it further back - respect and tolerance

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I have to say I feel bitterly disappointed that church services within our stadium have became an issue no matter what religion it is for.

Thought we were well above that kind of judgment whether you are a believer in religion or not.

I wrote it further back - respect and tolerance

I agree LS, useless bickering over a non subject, or it should be.

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Guest TPAFKATS

If you honestly think that "H**= r*ngers fan and tim = c*ltic fan then your research is fan from fine.

I still don't understand what your original point was?

My original point was that you and some others were getting into a flap about objections to a notional church meeting at our ground, when there hadnt been any.

Since then the discussion on the topic has veered to the usual scottish proddytim pish

Maybe you would like to enlighten me as to where I am so wrong :rolleyes:

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Much as I feel that this is a bit of a storm in a teacup, I do wonder about a couple of aspects of this proposed arrangement in the broader context. I've not read the entire thread, so apologies in advance if these areas have already been done to death.

To what extent do the shareholders who will not be members of the CIC have a say in how the club facilities will be used and by whom? Should they even care if this brings increased revenue? Well, I'm not a share holder so perhaps it is none of my business, but, nowadays, people are often concerned with the business practices of the organisation in which they are investing (ethical trading etc.). Now, don't get me wrong here, I don't intend to cast aspersions on the church involved, but let's take a hypothetical position. Were I a shareholder in the club, I would be unhappy if any organisation that, say, has adopted a stance that is against contraception in developing countries, was using the club's facilities to further this position. I might want to make representations in this regard. Would I have scope to do this? In fact, how would other members of the CIC feel about this.

Also, and this pretty much ties in with the first question, is there to be any form of screening as to what organisations can sign up and therefore reasonably expect to use the facilities?

Edited by Drew
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Much as I feel that this is a bit of a storm in a teacup, I do wonder about a couple of aspects of this proposed arrangement in the broader context. I've not read the entire thread, so apologies in advance if these areas have already been done to death.

To what extent do the shareholders who will not be members of the CIC have a say in how the club facilities will be used and by whom? Should they even care if this brings increased revenue? Well, I'm not a share holder so perhaps it is none of my business, but, nowadays, people are often concerned with the business practices of the organisation in which they are investing (ethical trading etc.). Now, don't get me wrong here, I don't intend to cast aspersions on the church involved, but let's take a hypothetical position. Were I a shareholder in the club, I would be unhappy if any organisation that, say, has adopted a stance that is against contraception in developing countries, was using the club's facilities to further this position. I might want to make representations in this regard. Would I have scope to do this? In fact, how would other members of the CIC feel about this.

Also, and this pretty much ties in with the first question, is there to be any form of screening as to what organisations can sign up and therefore reasonably expect to use the facilities?

If this is what the CIC is going to be about then I am keeping well clear of it. Bringing in money to help the football club is one thing ,political and religious debates is a recipe for disaster. Only Saitns fans can take a big f**k off shoot gun to their own foots.

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If this is what the CIC is going to be about then I am keeping well clear of it. Bringing in money to help the football club is one thing ,political and religious debates is a recipe for disaster. Only Saitns fans can take a big f**k off shoot gun to their own foots.

Apologies, I'm not following.

I'm simply wondering what, if any, mechanisim might be in place in terms of screening who might use the club's facilities and how. It doesn't need to be unduly controversial.

Many community organisations, not just churches, have some curious and idiosyncratic approaches to how they conduct their businesses and general activities. I presume there is some form of code of conduct in terms of membership of the CIC that will curb the most controversial excesses, but with such a variety of disparate interests, I wonder how this will be monitored in practice.

Speaking personally, I would have a few reservations about signing up to the CIC if I was unsure as to the nature, policies, and practices of some of the other organisations and individuals involved. It's all about knowing what you are signing up to, and having a degree of discretion as to who I might be associating with.

Edited by Drew
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Apologies, I'm not following.

I'm simply wondering what, if any, mechanisim might be in place in terms of screening who might use the club's facilities and how. It doesn't need to be unduly controversial.

Many community organisations, not just churches, have some curious and idiosyncratic approaches to how they conduct their businesses and general activities. I presume there is some form of code of conduct in terms of membership of the CIC that will curb the most controversial excesses, but with such a variety of disparate interests, I wonder how this will be monitored in practice.

Speaking personally, I would have a few reservations about signing up to the CIC if I was unsure as to the nature, policies, and practices of some of the other organisations and individuals involved. It's all about knowing what you are signing up to, and having a degree of discretion as to who I might be associating with.

If the deal goes through, the 52% shareholding is owned by 10000hours CIC, which (for talking sake), is made up of 300 individual members, 12 corporate members, and 24 community members. Those members get to elect representatives to, well, represent them. If, following the takeover, there's a group looking to use the facilities on a regular basis, I would think it would need approval from the members. At the moment, it, like any decision, needs the approval of the board. I imagine the way it works at the moment is Richard Atkinson tells the board he's got so-and-so interested in using the ground for whatever. They can either say 'No worries', or 'Hold on a minute, not so sure about that'. Same would go for any board member. If SG racked up one day and said he's got the cricket and hockey club looking to use the facilities, then that's how that would work too.

Cannae' see the BNP holding whist drives in the new members bar. Don't know about this Muslim Carpet Bowls Club though. :)

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Apologies, I'm not following.

I'm simply wondering what, if any, mechanisim might be in place in terms of screening who might use the club's facilities and how. It doesn't need to be unduly controversial.

Many community organisations, not just churches, have some curious and idiosyncratic approaches to how they conduct their businesses and general activities. I presume there is some form of code of conduct in terms of membership of the CIC that will curb the most controversial excesses, but with such a variety of disparate interests, I wonder how this will be monitored in practice.

Speaking personally, I would have a few reservations about signing up to the CIC if I was unsure as to the nature, policies, and practices of some of the other organisations and individuals involved. It's all about knowing what you are signing up to, and having a degree of discretion as to who I might be associating with.

You don't need to apologise Drew it is a debate.

Personally all I am seeing is holes being picked. If the Orange Order were coming in I would see the point.

If one set of Christians don't mind putting a condom on while the other set of Christians don't like putting a condom on then shall we condom those that do or don't. Maybe we can have two function rooms for those who support the use of condoms and a separate room for those who are against the use of condoms

Religion is a can of worms and if it is to be a issue I for one will not be joining any CIC group. That's what I mean be Saints fans turning what could be good for the club into some sort of religious old firm nonsense

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Cannae' see the BNP holding whist drives in the new members bar. Don't know about this Muslim Flying Carpet Bowls Club though. :)

Fixed it for you :ph34r:

ETA:

At the risk of digressing....

It seems that a US fighter pilot on a sortie over Libya was flanked by two flying carpets, each with a mounted machine gun turret. Faced with a split-second decision, he proceeded to shoot them down.

On his return to base, he was subjected to a bollocking by his commanding officer. It seems they were Allied Carpets.

It's okay, I've already got my coat :(

Edited by Drew
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If one set of Christians don't mind putting a condom on while the other set of Christians don't like putting a condom on then shall we condom those that do or don't.

:lol:

I was thinking more of the broader context, and simply used a religious slant as that is in keeping with the thread.

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Fixed it for you :ph34r:

ETA:

At the risk of digressing....

It seems that a US fighter pilot on a sortie over Libya was flanked by two flying carpets, each with a mounted machine gun turret. Faced with a split-second decision, he proceeded to shoot them down.

On his return to base, he was subjected to a bollocking by his commanding officer. It seems they were Allied Carpets.

It's okay, I've already got my coat :(

If that's the standard of gag you're bringing to the table, I hope 10000hours knock you back for a membership. :lol:

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