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Church at SMP


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I think it would be brilliant if the club could hire out a room at the ground to a group of fans concerned about who rooms at the ground were hired out to - or maybe that's just my warped sense of humour as a well-meaning villager.

If they hired a room out to a group for that purpose, I may enquire about renting out a room for the purpose of bringing together those who don't care who hires the rooms at the stadium and get pissed off when people use thier lack of education and blatant religious prejudices to make a big song and dance about who uses the space at the stadium.

For the sake of the booking form, I may call it the "Amalgamted Collective of The Extreme Fundamentalist Church of Tamborines, Swords, Inclusivity, and Ancillary Muslim Ladies Carpet Bowls Society".

Anyone care to join?

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If they hired a room out to a group for that purpose, I may enquire about renting out a room for the purpose of bringing together those who don't care who hires the rooms at the stadium and get pissed off when people use thier lack of education and blatant religious prejudices to make a big song and dance about who uses the space at the stadium.

For the sake of the booking form, I may call it the "Amalgamted Collective of The Extreme Fundamentalist Church of Tamborines, Swords, Inclusivity, and Ancillary Muslim Ladies Carpet Bowls Society".

Anyone care to join?

If it's £10 a month - what do I get for it? :)

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If it's £10 a month - what do I get for it? :)

The good news is, it's free!!! With the optional obligation of 10% giving from your gross annual salary to cover the costs of the tambourines, swords, burkas and carpet shampoo.

What do you get?! Good LORD man, only the greatest gift humanity and all of fallen creation has ever received... A free pass to the "Ka-Bowl" the Kabul Bowls Festival!!! A veritable flesh-satisfying orgy of indoor bowls, Qorma and Kebobs.

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God is a figment of your imagination.

Therefore the discussion about the pro's & con's of religion on this thread are irrelevant.

Proper apostrophe use, is a figment of yours. Therefore, a bit of education is completely relevant! :lol:

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Can someone please explain to me what is the difference between a Protestant having intolerance to a Catholic and a Catholic having intolerance to a Protestant and an atheist having intolerance to both.

Would all come under the term BIGOTS

Answers please.

There is no difference.

Yes they would.

Well pointed out, my friend!

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Can someone please explain to me what is the difference between a Protestant having intolerance to a Catholic and a Catholic having intolerance to a Protestant and an atheist having intolerance to both.

Would all come under the term BIGOTS

Answers please.

For me the difference comes when your disapproval/intolerance/hatred can be rationalised, and not simply based on name calling and ignorance. It is perfectly possible for the different denominations of Christianity to justify their existance relative to one another based on their interpretation of their Bible. The bigotry only enters into it when it's the mindless masses who don't even know what their own denomination stands for much less any other.

The same can be said for the attitude of Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus and Athiests etc to one another.

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I'd rather have the stand filled by churchgoers on a Sunday morning than a bunch of boring, bitter atheist dullards like you.

Our club is named after a Christian saint. You must have a small brain haemorrhage every time you mention his name.

Maybe you should go to the church under the stand when it starts up. It might make you a decent person. <_<

Not at all Reynard and your simplistic reply is well.....simplistic.

The fact that our beloved club is named after a real person is something that adds character and history to the "St Miren story". Indeed the Christian past of Paisley as a town is something we should all understand and appreciate, Paisley abbey for example is steeped in history and central to the culture of our town.

In a modern age however education and a better appreciation of the sciences has resulted in the inevitable move away from religion. That is a good thing as educated people are now free to make there own choices.

The obvious danger with having organised religion at our beloved ground is an obvious one. If just ONE person, be it adult or child, decides to attend church because that church is affiliated with our club then that is very dangerous indeed. The church/mosque/synagogue or whatever it may has NO place at a football club like ours.

PS Your assumption that people who do not attend church are in some way "less decent" makes you look really stupid indeed. Athiests are not bitter people or dullards. Your unwelcome insults detract from any credability you may have had in this debate. Yes Reynard you have indeed let yourself down.

Edited by jimdickloyal
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I think the answer to each and every one of the above questions is "who cares?"

If anyone wants to use the stadium when there's no match on they'll pay for it and generate money for the club. You don't have to be associated with it and neither do the club.

You don't subscribe to the beliefs and values of the Scouts, would you have a problem with them using a room at SMP?

No but unless the scouts have changed since I attended them then the scouts do not seekk to indoctrinate people into a system of belief, unlike the Church.

Churches of any denomination have there place and we as indiviuals can attend these churches is we so desire but to bring in any church/mosque/synagogue etc to a FOOTBALL club is a very dangerous and reckless thing to do.

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Churches of any denomination have there place and we as indiviuals can attend these churches is we so desire but to bring in any church/mosque/synagogue etc to a FOOTBALL club is a very dangerous and reckless thing to do.

You can attend if you like or you can choose not to, it makes no difference to you so what's the big deal?

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Not at all Reynard and your simplistic reply is well.....simplistic.

The fact that our beloved club is named after a real person is something that adds character and history to the "St Miren story". Indeed the Christian past of Paisley as a town is something we should all understand and appreciate, Paisley abbey for example is steeped in history and central to the culture of our town.

In a modern age however education and a better appreciation of the sciences has resulted in the inevitable move away from religion. That is a good thing as educated people are now free to make there own choices.

The obvious danger with having organised religion at our beloved ground is an obvious one. If just ONE person, be it adult or child, decides to attend church because that church is affiliated with our club then that is very dangerous indeed. The church/mosque/synagogue or whatever it may has NO place at a football club like ours.

PS Your assumption that people who do not attend church are in some way "less decent" makes you look really stupid indeed. Athiests are not bitter people or dullards. Your unwelcome insults detract from any credability you may have had in this debate. Yes Reynard you have indeed let yourself down.

In what way would this be "dangerous"? :unsure:

These people would still be going of their own free will. Are you wanting to deny freedom of choice now?

I won't be going and neither will you. They won't be bothering either of us, so what exactly is the problem here other than your own personal opinion? They will be meeting in an empty building at a time when neither of us will be there or will have anything to do with them. They won't be passing the communion cup around at half time so whats the problem?

You are a typical intolerant atheist. Let them be.

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In what way would this be "dangerous"? :unsure:

These people would still be going of their own free will. Are you wanting to deny freedom of choice now?

I won't be going and neither will you. They won't be bothering either of us, so what exactly is the problem here other than your own personal opinion? They will be meeting in an empty building at a time when neither of us will be there or will have anything to do with them. They won't be passing the communion cup around at half time so whats the problem?

You are a typical intolerant atheist. Let them be.

Yeah, I don't see the issue in a group using the facilities during the week, or at any time it isn't already in use. I don't understand the argument that if St Mirren have a particular church group using the premises, then someone, who hadn't until then expressed an interest in that church, suddenly decides to rack up at their meetings because they use a room or two at 'New' St Mirren Park.

A scenario that is attractive is if those church groups, scouts, boys brigade, rotary club, muslim carpet bowlers all become associated with St Mirren - we might get some of them to come to our games, because they WOULD have a direct connection to the club. If I were involved in getting these different groups to use the facilities, I'd be offering everyone free tickets for the first home game following them signing up to use the stadium for whatever use they need it.

I don't see what would be much different in doing that, from Sir Alex riding around urging punters to come to the games in the old days. Surely it's just a different twist on marketing yourself, selling the club to the masses*

* As in the population. Not as in anything else. :)

It will be a glorious day when a massive new banner is unfurled at away games.... 'Paisley Muslim Carpet Bowls Club - On tour - FTOF'

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Yeah, I don't see the issue in a group using the facilities during the week, or at any time it isn't already in use. I don't understand the argument that if St Mirren have a particular church group using the premises, then someone, who hadn't until then expressed an interest in that church, suddenly decides to rack up at their meetings because they use a room or two at 'New' St Mirren Park.

A scenario that is attractive is if those church groups, scouts, boys brigade, rotary club, muslim carpet bowlers all become associated with St Mirren - we might get some of them to come to our games, because they WOULD have a direct connection to the club. If I were involved in getting these different groups to use the facilities, I'd be offering everyone free tickets for the first home game following them signing up to use the stadium for whatever use they need it.

I don't see what would be much different in doing that, from Sir Alex riding around urging punters to come to the games in the old days. Surely it's just a different twist on marketing yourself, selling the club to the masses*

* As in the population. Not as in anything else. :)

It will be a glorious day when a massive new banner is unfurled at away games.... 'Paisley Muslim Carpet Bowls Club - On tour - FTOF'

I see billboards at the ground for political parties or MPs. Does this mean that the club becomes affiliated with a particular political party? I somehow doubt it very much. It's a case of taking wedge of them in return for them having an advert at the ground. I can't say any of the advertising boasrds have made me want to vote for any of them. I'm aware that they exist of course, but that's as far as it goes.

Take their money, let them do what they do and that's it as far as I'm concerned. Atheists will bleat about it because they have their own agenda so why not let them take out adverts like they have done in the past saying "there is no god". We will take their money too thank you very much.

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In what way would this be "dangerous"? :unsure:

These people would still be going of their own free will. Are you wanting to deny freedom of choice now?

I won't be going and neither will you. They won't be bothering either of us, so what exactly is the problem here other than your own personal opinion? They will be meeting in an empty building at a time when neither of us will be there or will have anything to do with them. They won't be passing the communion cup around at half time so whats the problem?

You are a typical intolerant atheist. Let them be.

There you are again with the insults.

Its a great freedom that we enjoy whereby anyone can decide to attend any place of worship. I do however object to my football club becoming associated with ANY religious organisation.

Throughout this thread I have seen the words "intolerant" and "bigot" thrown about without justification against anyone who does not agree that St Mirren should be associated with a religious organisation. Its a shame really as a reasoned debate may have held some interest.

For the record I do think that any organisation that teaches that the world in which we live is only 6000 yrs old is indeed dangerous!

What insult will that opinion provoke?

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Its a great freedom that we enjoy whereby anyone can decide to attend any place of worship. I do however object to my football club becoming associated with ANY religious organisation.

I don't. I think Tom Cruise and his scientology chums are fcuking fruitcakes, but if he wants to hire a room at FeegieField, let him. Top Gun was great, and so was Mission Impossible 2. No-one is perfect.

I need more coffee. :D

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There you are again with the insults.

Its a great freedom that we enjoy whereby anyone can decide to attend any place of worship. I do however object to my football club becoming associated with ANY religious organisation.

And I object to them NOT being associated (whatever that means) with any religious organisation. My grounds for objections? Diversity, inclusivity and multi-culuralism.

I can object just as much as you can on just as valid grounds.

Oh, and on that, as I have some experience in this, it is very hard to justify (without being taken to court and ruled against), if you are advertising your premises for people to hire out, to discriminate again a particular group because of religion, sexual orientation, race, gender etc. So, unless you want the club taken to court and tarred with all sorts of brushes, they really have no choice but to allow it.

Throughout this thread I have seen the words "intolerant" and "bigot" thrown about without justification against anyone who does not agree that St Mirren should be associated with a religious organisation. Its a shame really as a reasoned debate may have held some interest.

A reasoned debate? What, based on the inaccuracies of your interpretation of Christianity and Christian doctrine and on the blanket fallacy that all science agrees with all other science, is 100% provable and not based on assumption and "faith"? A reasoned debate in which you expound the virtues of modernist atheistic humanism but those who desire to express the hope they have found in their faith or the greater meaning and calling of their existence or the life that they didn't know they could have or the freedom or healing or purpose will be roundly mocked and called weak-minded and told that their points of view are meaningless because the are individual and post-modern and based on feeling as opposed to "reasoned argument". Which, by the way, is all that Atheism is, a feeling, opinion, though on how the universe might work. Darwinism, as you openly lauded in an earlier post has a very slim evidence base and is largely theory that, for lack of another more provable scientific answer has become the mantra for those who can't be arsed looking deeper into life or the origin of such. There is no reasoned debate in Darwinism, there is no reasoned debate in humanistic atheism. It is as much based on feeling assumption, hope and faith, as religion is. Excepting that, religion has centuries and millennia or research, debate, conversation, scholarly input, theism, writing speaking and thinking attached to it to give it weight an validity. Humanistic Atheism, has about 20 years of poorly researched and poorly regurgitated misinformation produced by poorly educated, prejudiced individuals with a desire to make the world a boring and poorer place. A reasoned debate would be one, but since you have no foundation from which to debate that isn't misinformation or mocking, I see that as being unlikely.

For the record I do think that any organisation that teaches that the world in which we live is only 6000 yrs old is indeed dangerous!

What insult will that opinion provoke?

No insults, just the advice to go and research Orthodox Christian Doctrine on Creationism vs what you just reckon people in churches think about how the world was made. You may be shocked.

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Darwinism, as you openly lauded in an earlier post has a very slim evidence base and is largely theory that, for lack of another more provable scientific answer has become the mantra for those who can't be arsed looking deeper into life or the origin of such. There is no reasoned debate in Darwinism, there is no reasoned debate in humanistic atheism. It is as much based on feeling assumption, hope and faith, as religion is.

No insults, just the advice to go and research Orthodox Christian Doctrine on Creationism vs what you just reckon people in churches think about how the world was made. You may be shocked.

In your opinion.

There is plenty evidence for it,but you have to go in with your eyes open when you're looking for it.

In fact ,some might say there is far more evidence for Darwinism than there is for the existence of any "God".

When I teach evolution, I tell the pupils that they should weigh up the evidence both for and against and make their own decision.I also encourage debate on the matter.

FWIW , I couldn't care less if any religious organisation uses our ground,as long as they part with the required amount of cash.

I'm sure there will be some within those groups who look on me as an aetheist, as being a souless degenerate.Again I couldn't care less, as that is their right to have an opinion about me or any other aetheist.Much in the same way as I think people who believe in any god are quite barking in their belief.Doesn't make them a bad person though.

Edited by FTOF
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I don't. I think Tom Cruise and his scientology chums are fcuking fruitcakes, but if he wants to hire a room at FeegieField, let him. Top Gun was great, and so was Mission Impossible 2. No-one is perfect.

I need more coffee. :D

No it wasn't! And I have evidence to support that :P

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There you are again with the insults.

Its a great freedom that we enjoy whereby anyone can decide to attend any place of worship. I do however object to my football club becoming associated with ANY religious organisation.

Throughout this thread I have seen the words "intolerant" and "bigot" thrown about without justification against anyone who does not agree that St Mirren should be associated with a religious organisation. Its a shame really as a reasoned debate may have held some interest.

For the record I do think that any organisation that teaches that the world in which we live is only 6000 yrs old is indeed dangerous!

What insult will that opinion provoke?

None. If I really went out of my way to insult you then you'd know about it.

There is the crux of the debate. You say you don't mind freedom of worship. As long as it's not at an empty football ground on a Sunday morning. :blink:

I'm pleased to see that St.Johnstone FC don't have a similar hang up about things like this and incredibly have never become "associated" with the Jehovahs Witness organisation that for many years hired out McDiarmid Park annually for a large open air meeting. They seem to have managed to avoid the dreadful stigma of being somehow tarnished with religion. I'm sure we will manage it too.

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