Church at SMP

[RossTheBoss]

Can someone please explain to me what is the difference between a Protestant having intolerance to a Catholic and a Catholic having intolerance to a Protestant and an atheist having intolerance to both.

Would all come under the term BIGOTS

Answers please.

Zero and yes, well said

No but unless the scouts have changed since I attended them then the scouts do not seekk to indoctrinate people into a system of belief, unlike the Church.

Churches of any denomination have there place and we as indiviuals can attend these churches is we so desire but to bring in any church/mosque/synagogue etc to a FOOTBALL club is a very dangerous and reckless thing to do.

The Scouts have a set of beliefs, values and morals which they expect all members to subscribe to. This is what churches have. The Scouts also actively seek to recruit new members. This is what all churches do. The only difference is that churches subscribe to beliefs set out by "God" whereas Scouts subscribe to a set of beliefs set out by a person. As you evidently don't believe in a "God" then it follows that you should see no difference in the fundimentals of the two organisations.

Furthermore, would you be OK with the Scouts considering all Scouts must make a promise which includes the line "Do my duty to God and to the Queen"? Or are they tainted too?

Some Boys Brigade sections are directly affiliated with the Protestant Church. Are they banned too?

[Drew]

Suicide pact anyone?

[davidg]

When I teach evolution, I tell the pupils that they should weigh up the evidence both for and against and make their own decision.I also encourage debate on the matter.

Don't know if you've seen the evolution one but just had an image of you and Ross from Friends boxing about this

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

There you are again with the insults.

Its a great freedom that we enjoy whereby anyone can decide to attend any place of worship. I do however object to my football club becoming associated with ANY religious organisation.

Throughout this thread I have seen the words "intolerant" and "bigot" thrown about without justification against anyone who does not agree that St Mirren should be associated with a religious organisation. Its a shame really as a reasoned debate may have held some interest.

For the record I do think that any organisation that teaches that the world in which we live is only 6000 yrs old is indeed dangerous!

What insult will that opinion provoke?

With your way of thinking though it seems to be my way or no way. How can that be freedom of expression to others.

You say words of intolerance and bigot are being used, it is myself that is using these words for the simple fact that you are an atheist who can only see his own opinion and as such no religion organization shall hold their services at the football stadium because of the way I think.

You also wrote that if it stops one person from going to a service from our fan base then your opinion will have worked. Who are you to speak or control what other fans want to do.

Can you not see your in the wrong on this subject

[faraway saint]

I had a self-serve Morrisons salad box for lunch, followed by a royal gala apple.

Boiled eggs are great, but they have a tendency to come back on me. Does anyone else have that experience?

Yes.

Can this thread be closed?

Edited April 12, 2011 by faraway saint

[faraway saint]

Suicide pact anyone?

Not a good idea, you'll not go to heaven.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Not a good idea, you'll not go to heaven.

[FTOF]

Don't know if you've seen the evolution one but just had an image of you and Ross from Friends boxing about this

Actually I'm in complete agreement with him,but I'd never force my beliefs on anyone.

Except of course when I believe it's someone's round.

[Drew]

someone's round.

Billy Reid is being discussed on another thread.

[bluto]

For me the difference comes when your disapproval/intolerance/hatred can be rationalised, and not simply based on name calling and ignorance. It is perfectly possible for the different denominations of Christianity to justify their existance relative to one another based on their interpretation of their Bible. The bigotry only enters into it when it's the mindless masses who don't even know what their own denomination stands for much less any other.

The same can be said for the attitude of Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus and Athiests etc to one another.

The same can't be said.

Wrong on two counts, there.

1. That's not how you spell 'atheist'... (or 'existence', come to that...)

2. Atheists don't adhere to a religion or an ideology that would bind them into a mindless mass capable of having 'an attitude' to followers of other religions - that would be lowering themselves to the level of religious bigots. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a god.

However, I do concede that might render someone capable of dismissing the 'teachings' of religious institutions and of hating what is preached or advocated. That isn't mindless bigotry. It's the opposite - that is rational thought.

The same answer applies to LS who lumped atheists in with bigots - and to the lazy thinkers who suggested there was no difference. Atheists don't hate catholics or protestants (or even their irrational ideologies: 3 gods for the price of one, anyone?) though they'd have no time for the institutions.

I hope this helps?

[pozbaird]

A new church group met for the first time at the ground today. Guest speakers Neil Doncaster, Billy Reid, Craig Burley and Ross Tokely reportedly had a great time.

[ktf]

The same can't be said.

Wrong on two counts, there.

1. That's not how you spell 'atheist'... (or 'existence', come to that...)

2. Atheists don't adhere to a religion or an ideology that would bind them into a mindless mass capable of having 'an attitude' to followers of other religions - that would be lowering themselves to the level of religious bigots. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a god.

However, I do concede that might render someone capable of dismissing the 'teachings' of religious institutions and of hating what is preached or advocated. That isn't mindless bigotry. It's the opposite - that is rational thought.

The same answer applies to LS who lumped atheists in with bigots - and to the lazy thinkers who suggested there was no difference. Atheists don't hate catholics or protestants (or even their irrational ideologies: 3 gods for the price of one, anyone?) though they'd have no time for the institutions.

I hope this helps?

1. Isn't a "count" - it's pedantry of the highest (read lowest) order.

2. Glad to see you have been nominated to speak for all atheists on this matter. When did this happen? Or were you naturally selected to be the representative? Of course, that can't be the case as it is the smartest that rise to the top, not the most smug/arrogant... If I have understood the theory correctly.

You should really read Dawkins et al for some concise and accurate information on Atheism instead of assuming what you believe to be true and spouting it on here as if it is fact.

Atheists do indeed adhere to an ideology, the ideology that there is no Christian God. If Christians believe that there is a God and that He is revealed trough the scriptures and through the person of Jesus Christ, then the Atheist ideology is opposed to this. It is impossible to not have an ideology. Ideology is defined as the study or concepts and ideas. In the context used in this thread it is about beliefs or lack of beliefs that form that way that a person lives. Even if someone doesn't know that they have an ideology, the way that they look at life, the things that they do, their aims and goals all for their ideology. A person can't have no ideology.

Christianity, or any other religion for that matter, doesn't "bind people in one mindless mass". That is Atheist scaremongering and shows a clear atheist ideology and agenda to indoctrinate people about the "evils" of religions. Maybe some do, but most churches I am aware of encourage their members to think, study, debate and come to their own conclusions on matters of faith, doctrine, ethics etc. Religion and Christianity will always have extremists, but don't be foolish enough to allow the few to influence your view of the many.

And on that, to suggest that religion "binds people into one mindless mass" is an attitude the type of which you claimed atheists don't have. This makes you a religious bigot.

So, let me get this straight. A person's lack of a belief in a Christian God means that they will dismiss the teaching of the Christian faith and therefore hate Christian teaching and what the Christian faith stands for. And this type of hatred, of a belief system is perfectly rational? So, extreme negative emotion because a person doesn't hold to the beliefs of another person is the product of careful thought? So, if I hated Darwinism and the exponents thereof, that would be borne out of rational thought? Or is it just your point of view, your own hatred, your own prejudices, your own bigotry and your own non-ideological ideologies that are a result of rational thought and everyone else's are a result of... Eh... Mashed potato? Pie in the sky? The TV? What? Your point of view is conceited and arrogant to the highest order and really quite offensive to read and process.

Just as not all Christians (Roman Catholic or Protestant) are bigots, neither are all Atheist. They are happy believing what they believe and, when given the chance, will respectfully put their point of view across. But others, like You Bluto, are bigoted. They (you) spout derisive, maligning, negative, scaremongering, ill-informed misinformation in a mocking and condescending tone and try to so in the name of rational or religious or atheistic superiority. It is sickening to read and smacks of hypocrisy. Thankfully most people, religious or atheist aren't like you and don't spout as repulsive and ignorant bile as you do.

Live and let live, buddy

Hope this helps.

[Gary Blues]

Atheists do indeed adhere to an ideology, the ideology that there is no Christian God.

Just a "christian" god?

[dardo]

I myself am an atheist of around 26 years, but I have to say I am somewhat alarmed about the rise of "fundamentalist atheism" as preached by dawkins and the like.

This thread, or some people "representing" the atheists on this thread, has become a bit silly.

Respect should be granted to any belief system. Similarly, atheism and agnosticism should be respected also.

Fundamentalism is stupid, no matter whether it be Muslim, Christian or atheist.

As billy bragg once said, "a poet with all the answers has never yet been built".

[Gruffalo]

What a lot of rubbish this thread is.

Are we going to go through this every time an organisation wants to pay the club to use the facilities

Youth Club - "we hate all young people, they will trash the place and be selling that tacky macky stuff you know that funny plant they smoke

Boys Brigade - "No we don't want them they believe in a God, aye its okay we will take the Hitler Youth"

YMCA - "Don't want them and their silly dance"

Paisley Elders - "Don't want them the place will smell if piss"

Get a grip. We have an organisation wanting to pay to use the facilities, not want to have a human sacrifice in the centre circle at every game.

No1 We are St Mirren Football Club

No2 We have a facility that is basically used once a fortnight

No3 We can rent out those facilities and make some money

No4 This is all at the moment a rumour

For a club that has a fan base that is basically mocked by the majority for following a minority we are a very intolerant bunch.

Ohh the irony

[ktf]

Just a "christian" god?

Well, traditionally and for the purpose of this thread, yes. Literally, any god. Well pedantically pointed out

[ktf]

I myself am an atheist of around 26 years, but I have to say I am somewhat alarmed about the rise of "fundamentalist atheism" as preached by dawkins and the like.

This thread, or some people "representing" the atheists on this thread, has become a bit silly.

Respect should be granted to any belief system. Similarly, atheism and agnosticism should be respected also.

Fundamentalism is stupid, no matter whether it be Muslim, Christian or atheist.

As billy bragg once said, "a poet with all the answers has never yet been built".

At last, someone from the atheist camp who speaks sense and carries some credibility.

Thank the LORD!

[Tracy Barlow Loyal]

ok if you hold the can Tracy we'll give it a spin ........not that I'm condoning the suggestion by LS in any way

Oh, sorry, I got mixed up. Its bareback riding in a can of Heinz Alphabetti, Numberetti, or Spaghetti Hoops that I prefer. If you still wanna try it though, can you bring up the rear?!

I like Bluto, I like KTF, who's the best...................................................FIGHT!

Careful Faraway...I did a post like that recently and you know who gave me a Red Dot.

Paisley Muslim Carpet Bowls Club

What is the deal with this?! Is there such an organisation?!!!!

No it wasn't! And I have evidence to support that

Mission Impossible II was so much better than the first one...everyone knows that...even my neighbour's Dog.

Yes.

Can this thread be closed?

100% agree, m'lord!

Edited April 12, 2011 by Tracy Barlow Loyal

[St. Sid]

The same can't be said.

Wrong on two counts, there.

1. That's not how you spell 'atheist'... (or 'existence', come to that...)

2. Atheists don't adhere to a religion or an ideology that would bind them into a mindless mass capable of having 'an attitude' to followers of other religions - that would be lowering themselves to the level of religious bigots. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a god.

However, I do concede that might render someone capable of dismissing the 'teachings' of religious institutions and of hating what is preached or advocated. That isn't mindless bigotry. It's the opposite - that is rational thought.

The same answer applies to LS who lumped atheists in with bigots - and to the lazy thinkers who suggested there was no difference. Atheists don't hate catholics or protestants (or even their irrational ideologies: 3 gods for the price of one, anyone?) though they'd have no time for the institutions.

I hope this helps?

BALDerdash!

Bigotry is the corruption of one "brand" to launch an irrational hate based attack on another group. It is generally done for self-aggrandizement rather than having its basis in the origin of the brand itself. Political Parties are among the worst offenders. The ideals and origins of their parties get lost in the self-aggrandizement of the career politician taking advantage of the brand. Religion is the easy target, but in reality any brand can be be corrupted for bigotted gain. Followers of a different brand become caricatured by the self-aggrandizee and the dichotomy swells to OFesque proportions. London is the world capital of self-aggrandizement brand abusing bigotry.

[barney]

i'm a bit lost as to the problem with a church group using a suite at st mirren's ground. The OF problems are more to do with drunken ignorance rather than religious differences and don't really translate into normal practising religion.

Good on the club for finding alternative revenue streams.

[pod]

Would you Adam n eve it.

I'm surprise this topic has still got the legs.

[Tracy Barlow Loyal]

Over a 100 replies to this non-subject.

Over 200 now, Bluto!

Shows ye that, especially in the West of Scotland, Churches should not be associated in any way with fitba. No need for religion to try to infest every corner of life, surely?

Well, Religion should not necessarily infest every aspect of life, but it looks like the People of Paisley and surrounding area feel different...

Edited April 12, 2011 by Tracy Barlow Loyal

[bud77]

i'm a bit lost as to the problem with a church group using a suite at st mirren's ground. The OF problems are more to do with drunken ignorance rather than religious differences and don't really translate into normal practising religion.

Good on the club for finding alternative revenue streams.

It looks like we might have to stop using the phrase 'Keep the Faith' with all it's religious connotations and what about crosses, they'll need to be renamed to something more suitable. If things aren't going our way for the rest of the season we better not say that we need a miracle and then there's the Easter soccer camps. Jesus Christ !!! Oops sorry I shouldn't have said that either. There's only one religion - Buddism that must be a no no now. I just hope Junior Mendes stays away from the ground - Judas. We'll need a few new songs as well or at least replace the word Saints in all the old ones, in fact we should really change the club's name while we're at it.

As long as the club get paid rent for the ground, there's nothing that could be a potential embarrassment to the club and any similar organisations (including devil worshippers) get the same consideration then I don't see any problem with it.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

In what way would this be "dangerous"?

These people would still be going of their own free will. Are you wanting to deny freedom of choice now?

I won't be going and neither will you. They won't be bothering either of us, so what exactly is the problem here other than your own personal opinion? They will be meeting in an empty building at a time when neither of us will be there or will have anything to do with them. They won't be passing the communion cup around at half time so whats the problem?

You are a typical intolerant atheist. Let them be.

Well most churches involve a fair bit of standing up and sitting down as part of their worship.

As we all know only too well, standing during an event at St. Mirren Park is very dangerous indeed and I would expect the stewards to take the appropriate action with any "Ultra" worshippers...

[pozbaird]

What is the deal with this?! Is there such an organisation?!!!!

Somewhere back in the earlier pages of this thread, someone posted that it shouldn't matter who used the facilities - be it a church, the boys brigade, or the Paisley Muslim Carpet Bowls Club.

I think I've adopted the Paisley Muslim Carpet Bowls Club as a device to indicate that I also don't really give a monkeys who hires the facilities as long as they are kind to their grannies and don't support Morton.

I really don't think the Paisley Muslim Carpet Bowls Club actually exist.... although, stranger things have happened. We should encourage all carpet bowls clubs though - so we aren't accused of showing bias and have to jack it in.

Edited April 12, 2011 by pozbaird