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Reeperbahn Bud
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Somewhere back in the earlier pages of this thread, someone posted that it shouldn't matter who used the facilities - be it a church, the boys brigade, or the Paisley Muslim Carpet Bowls Club.

I think I've adopted the Paisley Muslim Carpet Bowls Club as a device to indicate that I also don't really give a monkeys who hires the facilities as long as they are kind to their grannies and don't support Morton.

I really don't think the Paisley Muslim Carpet Bowls Club actually exist.... although, stranger things have happened. We should encourage all carpet bowls clubs though - so we aren't accused of showing bias and have to jack it in. :)

My apologies, it was I...

Although, since that initial post they group has become the Paisley and District Muslim Ladies Carpet Bowls Society. They extended it to Renfew, Johnstone and the likes and threw the men out...! They were try to get a peek up/down the burkas :ph34r:

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1. Isn't a "count" - it's pedantry of the highest (read lowest) order.

It was two. Thus it was plural.

2. Glad to see you have been nominated to speak for all atheists on this matter. When did this happen? Or were you naturally selected to be the representative? :lol: Of course, that can't be the case as it is the smartest that rise to the top, not the most smug/arrogant... If I have understood the theory correctly.

You haven't. I - as must always be the case - responded solely from my pov of what atheism is for me. I did so due to the lack of intelligence and comprehension of it seeping through from the earlier posts. As I tried to explain (I should have used smaller words - forgive my arrogance in thinking you could have possibly understood.... :rolleyes: ) in atheism there is NO unified belief system - simply a rejection of the plethora of bizarre belief systems and multiplcities of gods. And the similar rejection of the panoply of institutions that have been created to pay 'respects or fear' or whatever to those gods.

Having read your post, I wouldn't burden all god-botherers with thinking that you speak for them. Omnipotent deity forbid!

You should really read Dawkins et al for some concise and accurate information on Atheism instead of assuming what you believe to be true and spouting it on here as if it is fact.

I've read lots of writers and lots of books, including your so-tardy recommendation. More importantly I have a mind of my own. My thinking is not prescribed and limited by one holy collection of pamphlets written several hundreds of years ago by a motley collection of 'religious nuts'.

Atheists do indeed adhere to an ideology, the ideology that there is no Christian God. If Christians believe that there is a God and that He is revealed trough the scriptures and through the person of Jesus Christ, then the Atheist ideology is opposed to this. It is impossible to not have an ideology. Ideology is defined as the study or concepts and ideas. In the context used in this thread it is about beliefs or lack of beliefs that form that way that a person lives. Even if someone doesn't know that they have an ideology, the way that they look at life, the things that they do, their aims and goals all for their ideology. A person can't have no ideology.

Again - you've not quite got the BIG idea, have you? All an atheist is - is someone who rejects the god ideas - there is no need to supplant that rejection with a wee god-botherer anti-belief system. I can quite accept that, " A person can't have no ideology." (Despite the wanky double negative, I think I know what you are trying to say.... sigh)...

Ideologies drive most of what I do. I do have ideologies that help me cope with the important things in life. However... a deity is not important - there is no need to come up with something to fill 'the deity vaccuum'.

Christianity, or any other religion for that matter, doesn't "bind people in one mindless mass". That is Atheist scaremongering and shows a clear atheist ideology and agenda to indoctrinate people about the "evils" of religions. Maybe some do, but most churches I am aware of encourage their members to think, study, debate and come to their own conclusions on matters of faith, doctrine, ethics etc. Religion and Christianity will always have extremists, but don't be foolish enough to allow the few to influence your view of the many.

And on that, to suggest that religion "binds people into one mindless mass" is an attitude the type of which you claimed atheists don't have. This makes you a religious bigot.

You missed the point that I was utilising the person quoted's phrase "mindless mass"- not mine. Sigh... :unsure: I don't need to defend that, surely? You can get that, at least?!

So, let me get this straight. A person's lack of a belief in a Christian God means that they will dismiss the teaching of the Christian faith and therefore hate Christian teaching and what the Christian faith stands for. And this type of hatred, of a belief system is perfectly rational? So, extreme negative emotion because a person doesn't hold to the beliefs of another person is the product of careful thought? So, if I hated Darwinism and the exponents thereof, that would be borne out of rational thought? Or is it just your point of view, your own hatred, your own prejudices, your own bigotry and your own non-ideological ideologies that are a result of rational thought and everyone else's are a result of... Eh... Mashed potato? Pie in the sky? The TV? What? Your point of view is conceited and arrogant to the highest order and really quite offensive to read and process.

Well, as pointed out above you have failed to process it - so I should stop trying to help you do so. I've almost lost the will to live but thought I ought to point out to you that I'm not a bigot. A bigot would be someone who despised or hated someone of a different race or religious group. It's always the institutions that I find repugnant - not the individuals who still adhere to the belief system.

Just as not all Christians (Roman Catholic or Protestant) are bigots, neither are all Atheist. They are happy believing what they believe and, when given the chance, will respectfully put their point of view across. But others, like You Bluto, are bigoted. They (you) spout derisive, maligning, negative, scaremongering, ill-informed misinformation in a mocking and condescending tone and try to so in the name of rational or religious or atheistic superiority. It is sickening to read and smacks of hypocrisy. Thankfully most people, religious or atheist aren't like you and don't spout as repulsive and ignorant bile as you do.

This final paragraph is merely gratuitous and ill-founded insults. You started with insults, too - "arrogant", "smug" etc.... First refuge of someone who really doesn't really understand the subject.

Live and let live, buddy :)

Easy for you to say - I have to concentrate on the living NOW. I don't get to go to heaven. <_<

Hope this helps.

You even got that bit wrong.

I hope this helps? :)

Edited by bluto
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BALDerdash! :P

Bigotry is the corruption of one "brand" to launch an irrational hate based attack on another group. It is generally done for self-aggrandizement rather than having its basis in the origin of the brand itself. Political Parties are among the worst offenders. The ideals and origins of their parties get lost in the self-aggrandizement of the career politician taking advantage of the brand. Religion is the easy target, but in reality any brand can be be corrupted for bigotted gain. Followers of a different brand become caricatured by the self-aggrandizee and the dichotomy swells to OFesque proportions. London is the world capital of self-aggrandizement brand abusing bigotry. :P

More mince.

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My apologies, it was I...

Although, since that initial post they group has become the Paisley and District Muslim Ladies Carpet Bowls Society. They extended it to Renfew, Johnstone and the likes and threw the men out...! They were try to get a peek up/down the burkas :ph34r:

So it was you.... I took quite a shine to your wee imaginary club, and regularly use them to illustrate my hopelessly meaningless points.

Have a green dot Sir. :)

Disappointed to find out that Paisley's Muslim men bowlers have been so shoddily treated - I blame John Potter.

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So it was you.... I took quite a shine to your wee imaginary club, and regularly use them to illustrate my hopelessly meaningless points.

Have a green dot Sir. :)

Disappointed to find out that Paisley's Muslim men bowlers have been so shoddily treated - I blame John Potter.

[/quotE]

Although my post above slagged ktf for being a god-bothering diddy - I also enjoyed his wee flight of fancy. :)

Fuck giving him a green dot, though! :P

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Somewhere back in the earlier pages of this thread, someone posted that it shouldn't matter who used the facilities - be it a church, the boys brigade, or the Paisley Muslim Carpet Bowls Club.

I think I've adopted the Paisley Muslim Carpet Bowls Club as a device to indicate that I also don't really give a monkeys who hires the facilities as long as they are kind to their grannies and don't support Morton.

I really don't think the Paisley Muslim Carpet Bowls Club actually exist.... although, stranger things have happened. We should encourage all carpet bowls clubs though - so we aren't accused of showing bias and have to jack it in. :)

:lol: Brilliant! :lol: Brilliant :lol: Brrrrrriiiiiiiilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

E.T.A. I can stop searching on Google for "Paisley Muslim Carpet Bowls Club" now. :lol:

Edited by Tracy Barlow Loyal
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Any chance he could be with me on Saturday instead? Got a big golf tie on that day. Just don't send Rory McIlroy's God. :)

Golfing gods my arse...................swing low and slow, head steady , smooth shoulder turn and keep the head still all through the turn and swing. Flex the knees slightly more than normal , lowering your cog slightly , makes a huge impact on your strike through the ball. De clutter the mind and focus on the one present shot.

More importantly, always respect your opponent, beware the pretence of a struggling golfer................ invariably a wolf in sheep's clothing. Do that and I feel a good golfing karma heading your way smile.gif Oh and about 30 or so putts would help

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Golfing gods my arse...................swing low and slow, head steady , smooth shoulder turn and keep the head still all through the turn and swing. Flex the knees slightly more than normal , lowering your cog slightly , makes a huge impact on your strike through the ball. De clutter the mind and focus on the one present shot.

More importantly, always respect your opponent, beware the pretence of a struggling golfer................ invariably a wolf in sheep's clothing. Do that and I feel a good golfing karma heading your way smile.gif Oh and about 30 or so putts would help

I'll give it a go. Got a tie against some guy from the Paisley Muslim Carpet Bowls and Golf Club. Easy. B)

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The obvious danger with having organised religion at our beloved ground is an obvious one. If just ONE person, be it adult or child, decides to attend church because that church is affiliated with our club then that is very dangerous indeed.

So what will become of this just ONE adult or CHILD attending church because of St Mirren FC, Why are they in peril?

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For the record I do think that any organisation that teaches that the world in which we live is only 6000 yrs old is indeed dangerous!

And where does the Bible give an actual date for the creation of the world (or Jesus birthday)? Maybe we should label science as dangerous too since some atheistic scientist reject evolution on scientific grounds and argue for a 'young earth'.

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It was two. Thus it was plural.

You haven't. I - as must always be the case - responded solely from my pov of what atheism is for me. I did so due to the lack of intelligence and comprehension of it seeping through from the earlier posts. As I tried to explain (I should have used smaller words - forgive my arrogance in thinking you could have possibly understood.... ) in atheism there is NO unified belief system - simply a rejection of the plethora of bizarre belief systems and multiplcities of gods. And the similar rejection of the panoply of institutions that have been created to pay 'respects or fear' or whatever to those gods.

Having read your post, I wouldn't burden all god-botherers with thinking that you speak for them. Omnipotent deity forbid!

I've read lots of writers and lots of books, including your so-tardy recommendation. More importantly I have a mind of my own. My thinking is not prescribed and limited by one holy collection of pamphlets written several hundreds of years ago by a motley collection of 'religious nuts'.

Again - you've not quite got the BIG idea, have you? All an atheist is - is someone who rejects the god ideas - there is no need to supplant that rejection with a wee god-botherer anti-belief system. I can quite accept that, " A person can't have no ideology." (Despite the wanky double negative, I think I know what you are trying to say.... sigh)...

Ideologies drive most of what I do. I do have ideologies that help me cope with the important things in life. However... a deity is not important - there is no need to come up with something to fill 'the deity vaccuum'.

You missed the point that I was utilising the person quoted's phrase "mindless mass"- not mine. Sigh... I don't need to defend that, surely? You can get that, at least?!

Well, as pointed out above you have failed to process it - so I should stop trying to help you do so. I've almost lost the will to live but thought I ought to point out to you that I'm not a bigot. A bigot would be someone who despised or hated someone of a different race or religious group. It's always the institutions that I find repugnant - not the individuals who still adhere to the belief system.

This final paragraph is merely gratuitous and ill-founded insults. You started with insults, too - "arrogant", "smug" etc.... First refuge of someone who really doesn't really understand the subject.

Easy for you to say - I have to concentrate on the living NOW. I don't get to go to heaven.

You even got that bit wrong.

I hope this helps?

Yawn. :ahhhh

What a boring and predictably dim response.

If you look closely, you'll see that I only ever commented on the nature of your posts, never on you as a person. Ok, maybe once when alluded to the fact that you might be smug and arrogant. However, anyone reading your posts couldn't fail to agree. So to say that insults are the "first refuge of those who don't understand" (or some cack like that) really is quite irrelevant. Or it would appear to be irrelevant until you rad through your post and realise that you make comments about me not understanding because you use big words (an insult), comments like 'surely you get that?' (insults), arrogant comments about double negative use and how you are so much better (insults), as well as the general condescending and insulting tone of the whole post.

Using your own argument, you don't understand what you are talking about.

On the double negative comment, perhaps it would have been better presented as "a person can't have 'no ideology'". It isn't a double negative but a contradiction to a previous comment. I was hardly going to say "a person can have an ideology", as that wasn't the point I was making. Instead of attempting to be a smart-arse pedant, try reading what people write and just replying to it. The fact that you believe that you know and can apply the English language better that some other people doesn't make you any better, smarter, stronger or superior to anyone else. Maybe no-one has told you that before, so I'm telling you now. It doesn't make you look big or clever. It makes you look like an arrogant prick. No-one is impressed.

I'm sorry, but it is impossible to find an institution repugnant. Institutions are people. They are made up of people. Exist because of people. Exercise their rituals because of and through people. Without people there would be no institutions. Their rules, traditions, theories, beliefs etc are all products of what people have said and done. It is impossible to hate an institution and not hate the people who are part of that institution.

Finally. How is "hope this helps" wrong? Wrong to who? Wrong for what? Wrong how? Wrong why? I'll tell you what is wrong, though: "I hope this helps? (question mark)". You can't put a question mark at the end of a statement.

Anyway, I'm bored of this now. :byebye

Hope this helps :)

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I'm sorry, but it is impossible to find an institution repugnant. Institutions are people. They are made up of people. Exist because of people. Exercise their rituals because of and through people. Without people there would be no institutions. Their rules, traditions, theories, beliefs etc are all products of what people have said and done. It is impossible to hate an institution and not hate the people who are part of that institution.

Got to disagree with you there, bud. I'll be very surprised if you don't have a family member or friend who supports one or other of the OF. I’m sure you can hate these institutions without hating the individual?

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Got to disagree with you there, bud. I'll be very surprised if you don't have a family member or friend who supports one or other of the OF. I’m sure you can hate these institutions without hating the individual?

But I don't hate the OF. I care too little about them to hate them. And I care very little about my friends' and family's support of them.

An organization/institution isn't 'a thing'. It is a non-entity. It is some ink on a piece of paper and a few electronic signals on a hard disc on the a computer at Companies House or OSCR, or the likes. It is people who make institutions. And if you are offended by an organization, it is because of the actions of the people who make up that institution. Ink and electronic data cannot rationally be hated and they cannot offend.

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Yawn. :ahhhh

Yawn?!?!

Really? :lol:

I'm sorry. I've been thoughtless. My fault.

I should have realised when you recommended that an atheist read a book to learn about how to do atheism (it's god-botherers who believe in books, kid!) that you were a teenager. I should have known, then!

It took your mature and sage response of 'yawn' - to ram your immaturity home. Sorry. :)

I took that 'get an atheist book' as an insult and perhaps over-reacted.

I didn't mean to hurt your feelings - however, to keep this post at teenagery level - you started it. If you don't like smug and arrogant responses than don't give out smug and arrogant comment.

Because so many thoughtless people simply grab the cliché that "all Londoners are modest and unassuming" (not you, of course... :rolleyes: ), I've had to work hard on here - developing the opposite... Glad to see I'm having some success. :)

Also glad to see you try to explain away your double-negative. If you need to use a paragraph to do so, then that's pretty much admitting it was a big FAIL, surely? I have a bit of a passion for words. I've made a living out of them, they've served me well.

And I know that people do judge others and their words carefully. If you don't care enough about your own words, why should anyone heed them? I pick up on them in here cos I see so many words being abused. Reading the errors may wrongfully lead young people like yourself to perpetuate those mistakes. I'm trying to help avoid that unfortunate outcome. I try to do so with some levity.

If I fail at that for you - put me on ignore. Please. :)

salmonbuddie has already noted that it's possible to loathe institutions without hating the people in it. I also believe that to be true. So that would be 2-1 for a start. You're on a loser, there buddie...

In the same way that you can't dictate that others believe in your god, you also can't dictate how they feel about other things.

Companies ARE entities, as ARE institutions... And as such can be hated, but I won't labour the point...

Try wikipedia:

An entity is something that has a distinct, separate existence, although it need not be a material existence. In particular, abstractions and legal fictions are usually regarded as entities. In general, there is also no presumption that an entity is animate.
Or read a book about entities. :)

I hope this helps? :)

Edited by bluto
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salmonbuddie has already noted that it's possible to loathe institutions without hating the people in it. I also believe that to be true. So that would be 2-1 for a start. You're on a loser, there buddie...

In the same way that you can't dictate that others believe in your god, you also can't dictate how they feel about other things.

Me too.

Make that 3-1.

Imagine the arrogance of someone telling me that it's not possible to do this.

Oh wait,I don't have to imagine it.:rolleyes:

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With your way of thinking though it seems to be my way or no way. How can that be freedom of expression to others.

You say words of intolerance and bigot are being used, it is myself that is using these words for the simple fact that you are an atheist who can only see his own opinion and as such no religion organization shall hold their services at the football stadium because of the way I think.

You also wrote that if it stops one person from going to a service from our fan base then your opinion will have worked. Who are you to speak or control what other fans want to do.

Can you not see your in the wrong on this subject

Absolutely, that is why I have expressed my opinion. If I did not have an opinion then I would not have felt the need to express it.

Quite obvious really.

Edited by jimdickloyal
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Got to disagree with you there, bud. I'll be very surprised if you don't have a family member or friend who supports one or other of the OF. I’m sure you can hate these institutions without hating the individual?

Have a green dot for that one. Very good quote indeed.

One of the obvious features of this thread has been the tendancy for posters to confuse "disaproval" and "hate". Quite unfortunate as it has detracted from what should be a thought provoking and interesting debate.

Religion is best kept away from from football clubs. This can be evidenced by the amount of debate that this very thread has generated.

Im also taken aback somewhat at the amount of posters on here who react so passionately in defence of the church. Maybe if some of you were to actually attend church rather than blindly defend its honour then the congregation would not need to approach our community football club for assistance !

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Have a green dot for that one. Very good quote indeed.

One of the obvious features of this thread has been the tendancy for posters to confuse "disaproval" and "hate". Quite unfortunate as it has detracted from what should be a thought provoking and interesting debate.

Religion is best kept away from from football clubs. This can be evidenced by the amount of debate that this very thread has generated.

Im also taken aback somewhat at the amount of posters on here who react so passionately in defence of the church. Maybe if some of you were to actually attend church rather than blindly defend its honour then the congregation would not need to approach our community football club for assistance !

PoppyCOCK! Your post is embarrassingly stupid. Firstly, you very childishly award a dot to someone who agrees with you. Rather sheepish behaviour that someone like you would ordinarily associate with religion. :P

You then slabber nonsense about "disaproval" and "hate" being words that detract from provoking and interesting debate then slabber "blindly defend its honour".

Don't get me wrong your incenduary tone is the sandwich to my meat, but I just wanted to helpfully point out your blatant stupidity. :P

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PoppyCOCK! Your post is embarrassingly stupid. Firstly, you very childishly award a dot to someone who agrees with you. Rather sheepish behaviour that someone like you would ordinarily associate with religion. :P

You then slabber nonsense about "disaproval" and "hate" being words that detract from provoking and interesting debate then slabber "blindly defend its honour".

Don't get me wrong your incenduary tone is the sandwich to my meat, but I just wanted to helpfully point out your blatant stupidity. :P

Usual standard of self absorbent pish.

I awarded a green dot as I liked the quote. The clue is where I said "very good quote".

The rest of that post sid is pish, it doesnt mean anything. As usual you add nothing. You are best sticking to making up rumours, that best defines your level.

Edited by jimdickloyal
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This too, was a good thread, before folks got hyper-sensitive and took things overly personally. :(

I was enjoying my chats with Bluto...

Quite.

Considering the debate that this proposal has stirred up then is it fair to say that having this religious group at St Mirren park is just too controversial and as such should not be allowed to happen?

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