10000 Hours Q&A Thread

[ktf]

I realise that this thread isn't for discussion, so apologies, but what is the tweaked plan?

I dunno... That would depend on what didn't work.

For example, if a funder pulled out then timescales or payment schedule to consortium or funding sources etc may need to be altered.

I was really just trying to convey that, even if the current plan comes up against some problems, there are alternatives that could be looked at. The point being, I believe the deal will almost certainly go through, even if the finer detail needs to be altered a smidgen here and there to get it over the line.

[Stu]

I can have a go at answering some of these...

No. They had a planned three week trial. The decision is now to be made over the summer by their leadership team and congregation. My understanding is that it is just a formality though as it was a very successful trial.

Someone else can maybe shed some light on these, but none of these points are in line with what I have heard.

I'm not 100% sure, but I'm also not sure what the purpose in this question is. The whole point is that it is a community buy out, not an individual one. If he had put that figure in, you'd be moaning that he has a controlling interest and would want something back. Make a decision on what you think and stick to it.

It depends what you mean by "deadline". My understanding is that the CIC guys themselves put some dates on when they hoped the process would complete. Due to funders requiring viability reports, due diligence etc and due to other factors like Scottish Government elections, the process has dragged on longer than anticipated. Truthfully though, the actual "deadline" is much further away that you would think.

99.5% likely that it will on the current plan. 99.99% that it will if using a tweaked plan.

Hope this helps

With all due respect, perhaps the 10000hours poster could be allowed to answer these questions as there are some serious issues being raised. I have a feeling that when well meaning folk such as yourself answer questions, they aren't in a hurry to make any corrections if you unintentionally post correct info.

[ktf]

With all due respect, perhaps the 10000hours poster could be allowed to answer these questions as there are some serious issues being raised. I have a feeling that when well meaning folk such as yourself answer questions, they aren't in a hurry to make any corrections if you unintentionally post correct info.

Aye, fair enough. I thought that after I had hit "post" but I didn't then want to simply delete my post.

My apologies to the mods and 10000hrs for jumping into a discussion that isn't mine...

However, I do believe all the correct info that I have posted has been done so intentionally

[Stu]

Aye, fair enough. I thought that after I had hit "post" but I didn't then want to simply delete my post.

My apologies to the mods and 10000hrs for jumping into a discussion that isn't mine...

However, I do believe all the correct info that I have posted has been done so intentionally

Have a green dot

[scoopydoo1987]

I can have a go at answering some of these...

Why would you?

No. They had a planned three week trial. The decision is now to be made over the summer by their leadership team and congregation. My understanding is that it is just a formality though as it was a very successful trial.

Someone else can maybe shed some light on these, but none of these points are in line with what I have heard

They are in line with what I have heard, that's why I have asked the question to the 10000hours team, not a random forum member.

I'm not 100% sure, but I'm also not sure what the purpose in this question is. The whole point is that it is a community buy out, not an individual one. If he had put that figure in, you'd be moaning that he has a controlling interest and would want something back. Make a decision on what you think and stick to it.

I'm sure pretty much every Saints fan would be interested to know if someone has put a 6 figure cash injection into their club. Many people have claimed this including Div and I believe it is not true. Wouldn't mind finding out an answer direct from Richard/10000hours team. For Div to believe this it must have came from someone pretty official, is it a bid to win people over?

It depends what you mean by "deadline". My understanding is that the CIC guys themselves put some dates on when they hoped the proess would complete. Due to funders requiring viability reports, due diligence etc and due to other factors like Scottish Government elections, the process has dragged on longer than anticipated. Truthfully though, the actual "deadline" is much further away that you would think.

Again, I didn't ask the questions to find out a random forum members understanding of the situation, the questions are directed at the 10000hours team.

My understanding is that there have been at least 3 deadlines missed and these deadlines were set by the selling consortium. I'm looking for the 10000hours team to come on here and tell me that my understanding of the situation is either correct or incorrect.

99.5% likely that it will on the current plan. 99.99% that it will if using a tweaked plan.

Not if one of the selling consortium pull out of the deal.

Hope this helps

Not in the slightest.

With all due respect, perhaps the 10000hours poster could be allowed to answer these questions as there are some serious issues being raised. I have a feeling that when well meaning folk such as yourself answer questions, they aren't in a hurry to make any corrections if you unintentionally post correct info.

Stu, you are right. It would be appreciated if 10000hours answered the questions as loads of forum members could come on here and claim they know they answers when they don't.

So many questions at the meetings and online have been dodged it's unbelievable.

[ktf]

Stu, you are right. It would be appreciated if 10000hours answered the questions as loads of forum members could come on here and claim they know they answers when they don't.

So many questions at the meetings and online have been dodged it's unbelievable.

You know what, I have already stated that I shouldn't have bothered answering. I even apologised for doing so. It shows the measure of a person that, even when someone has admitted fault, they insist of picking up on that fault, exploiting it, sticking the boot in and labouring that fault.

I'm sure the 10000hrs poster will answer those questions for you. And I'm certain you'll find they won't differ much form what I have said, but for what's it's worth: again, I shouldn't have answered, please ignore it, I apologise.

Oh and, have you been to the Q & A nights, because I was and I didn't hear any of these questions raised, I didn't hear any questions dodged and I didn't hear any major objections raised. One thing you said regarding the answers to these questions is correct though, it really is unbelievable. :blink:

ETA: in fact, if any Mod wants to delete my original post and the quotes of it, then I'd be more than happy. Thanks

Edited May 21, 2011 by ktf

[10000hours]

Will the fully qualified bar staff be local workers working directly for the club/10000 hours or will they be through an agency or events management company?

The most likely and desirable senario is local workers working directly for the CIC.

[10000hours]

Some questions.

Is it true that the church group have pulled out?

No, not true. They conducted an initail 3 week trial which has now finished they are now consulting further with their members about a more permanent move

Is it true that the selling consortium must take up the £10k membership for 1 year and they have no intention of renewing this membership?

No.

No one is being forced to do anything.

Is it not perfectly understandable that a group of folk (the consortium) who have put as much blood, sweat and tears into St Mirren over the years would not of their own back decide to put some of the money back into enabling the community purchase of the club, in a way that they chose, whether that is Corporate Membership or some other way?

Is it true that the Kibble have been refused the funding to build the 'Members Bar' in the Main Stand?

No. The architect drawings and building warrant are all in place to be started as soon as we can.

Is it true Richard has not put a 6 figure sum into St Mirren as many have stated?

This is a forum for answering 10000hours questions, not REA questions.

Is it true that the CIC have now missed 4 deadlines to complete the deal?

It is true that this process has taken much longer than we and the consortium had hoped.

10000hours has not been working in a vacuum away from the consortium, both are working together on virtually a day to day basis. There were target dates some have been met some have not along the way, but all parties have been happy to continue and have understood the reasons for any delays. It is a totally transparent process behind the scenes between 10000hours CIC and the Consortium.

However if it was a "deadline" that had passed then the deal would now be "dead" it is very much alive.

Is there any chance of this going through?

Of course there is. If any of the parties involved did not have a significant degree of confidence in both the proposal and the ability of the team and the funding organisations to deliver the proposal then we would have stopped a long time ago. Remember lots of people are putting a lot of hard work and many hours into this for no financial return, for all of these people to be prepared to do this they have got to believe that not only is the deal possible but that it is good for the club and the community.

What is garanteed going through is the sale of the club.

We think the sale of the club to a community footing is both the best way to grow the club (and so improve the team) and to protect the clubs future from the "one man" owner.

So far at least 700 individuals agree with us and so we hope shortly to make this a reality.

We are not there yet but we are close and those who have pledged will be recieving some further info from us later today.

10000hours CIC

[slapsalmon]

What is the difference between an event that the club hold and a match? Surely a football match is an event which the club are holding.

[10000hours]

What is the difference between an event that the club hold and a match? Surely a football match is an event which the club are holding.

Fair enough a match is an event that the club hold.

The sort of events we would be refering to would be say a wedding/or dinner that the club host such as the recent Erskine sportsmans dinner.

In the case of that dinner Erskine were introduced to the opportunity to have the dinner at the club by 10000hours CIC.

Erskine raised an enormous sum of money that night while the club benefited significantly from the income from the bar and one of the CIC partners Kibble provided all of the food and staff for the event

The CIC in this case only made the introduction and made no money directly from the event.

10000hours CIC

[slapsalmon]

Fair enough a match is an event that the club hold.

The sort of events we would be refering to would be say a wedding/or dinner that the club host such as the recent Erskine sportsmans dinner.

In the case of that dinner Erskine were introduced to the opportunity to have the dinner at the club by 10000hours CIC.

Erskine raised an enormous sum of money that night while the club benefited significantly from the income from the bar and one of the CIC partners Kibble provided all of the food and staff for the event

The CIC in this case only made the introduction and made no money directly from the event.

10000hours CIC

Fair enough about events like that, but I cant understand why a bar is needed to hold these when there is a suite which is under utilised. If the suite is under utilised would it not be better to fill that before any bar is built? I also feel the club should make the money from the bar on matchdays as it is an event which the club are holding.

[10000hours]

Fair enough about events like that, but I cant understand why a bar is needed to hold these when there is a suite which is under utilised. If the suite is under utilised would it not be better to fill that before any bar is built? I also feel the club should make the money from the bar on matchdays as it is an event which the club are holding.

Fair enough but a couple of points.

The Club cannot afford to develop out the void space. The CIC can and so while letting the club use the space for other events it will generate CIC revenue on the match days.

There are a number of event types and sizes that the club cannot hold currently but would be able to with the new system.

In particular events that require a separate or large space for dancing or secondary entertainment. Weddings, Christmas parties and other birthday type events really need two spaces one specific to the eating and one specific to the after meal function. In most facilties where the main space is squarer this can be accomodated but in a long and narrow space such as the one that exists in St Mirren Park a second space is required.

So it is not just about the current space being underutilised it is about the type of space it is.

Hope that clarifies it some more

10000hours CIC

[slapsalmon]

Fair enough but a couple of points.

The Club cannot afford to develop out the void space. The CIC can and so while letting the club use the space for other events it will generate CIC revenue on the match days.

There are a number of event types and sizes that the club cannot hold currently but would be able to with the new system.

In particular events that require a separate or large space for dancing or secondary entertainment. Weddings, Christmas parties and other birthday type events really need two spaces one specific to the eating and one specific to the after meal function. In most facilties where the main space is squarer this can be accomodated but in a long and narrow space such as the one that exists in St Mirren Park a second space is required.

So it is not just about the current space being underutilised it is about the type of space it is.

Hope that clarifies it some more

10000hours CIC

Weddings and birthday parties have already been held in the space as it is so I don't get how the space is now unsuitable.

Also, how will the cic afford the fit out? As far as I am aware the funding is purely to buy the shares and although kibble will do the work, materials still have to be supplied.

In your previous post you mentioned the kibble catering at the erskine dinner, and as I understand they will carry out the work on the bar fit out. Does this mean they will be preferred bidders for anything which needs done, be it catering or maintenance etc?

[Stu]

Intrigued at this line (nothing to do with the spelling):

What is garanteed going through is the sale of the club.

How is it guaranteed - how will that happen if the grants and loans aren't awarded?

Isn't it about time details of the 10 corporate pledgers signed up so far were revealed? After all, one of the attractions of them signing up was the increased business they would get in being associated with the club. Surely they want that to begin as soon as possible? Would it be right to say that seven of them are the five members of the selling consortium, Tony Fitzpatrick's taxi company and the solar panel mob?

How many of the 10 that have pledged support will actually be paying £10,000 a cash this year - and every year - and how many are paying "in kind", such as in solar panels and bar installations?

Edited May 24, 2011 by Stu

[10000hours]

Intrigued at this line (nothing to do with the spelling):

How is it guaranteed - how will that happen if the grants and loans aren't awarded?

It is guaranteed that the club will be sold is the point either to 10000hours or another party. The one thing that is for certain is that the consortium will sell the shares

Isn't it about time details of the 10 corporate pledgers signed up so far were revealed? After all, one of the attractions of them signing up was the increased business they would get in being associated with the club. Surely they want that to begin as soon as possible? Would it be right to say that seven of them are the five members of the selling consortium, Tony Fitzpatrick's taxi company and the solar panel mob?

No it would not be right to say that seven of them are as you suggest, although you are correct about VG Energy/Orchard Energy.

There is no reason to reveal them before the deal is actually done.

How many of the 10 that have pledged support will actually be paying £10,000 a cash this year - and every year - and how many are paying "in kind", such as in solar panels and bar installations?

No one is paying in kind with solar panels and bar fittings.

[Stu]

Are they all paying £10,000? And why not reveal them, surely the sooner they get publicity the better - and the other six I have mentioned all indicated in the original document they'd be signing up. Apologies if I have the number of directors selling up wrong, which I think I may have.

And being pedantic, there is no guarantee the shares will be sold as if the CIC doesn't go through for some reason, there's no guarantee someone else will make an acceptable bid.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Stu

[Kenny fae Partick']

This is a forum for answering 10000hours questions, not REA questions.

I dont think thats at all acceptable as an answer. REA is central to the whole 10000 Hours CIC organisation therfore it is entilrely reasonable to expect an aswer if someone claims he has put a 6 fiigure fee into the club.

[ds10]

I dont think thats at all acceptable as an answer. REA is central to the whole 10000 Hours CIC organisation therfore it is entilrely reasonable to expect an aswer if someone claims he has put a 6 fiigure fee into the club.

As far as I'm aware Richard Atkinson has never claimed to have invested a six figure sum in the club.

There has been some talk about that from some of the posters on here, but nothing has come directly Richard Atkinson or anybody else from 10000Hours. Also as far as I understand the business plan of the CIC, it does not depend on Richard Atkinson to invest any money in the football club personally.

So whether Richard Atkinson has or hasn't invested money in the club is not really relevant to a discussion on setting up the CIC.

[reborn saint]

Don't know if it is safe to post anything on here as the 25th May seems a long time ago for this thread. I see questions for the cic on other threads. Is everyone ok who has posted here or are there any missing persons with a history of trying to post after 25th May? "Is it safe?"... "Is it safe?"....Just don't want my teeth pulled out

[St. Sid]

'kay, I'll go...

When the club required its last critical decision there was a big show of supporters outside the c"ntcil buildings when they were voting on the planning to allow the stadium move to progress. The scenes of celebrations when it was announced we had been successful were great.

We now appear to be at a similar stage with the CIC. Will the visit by the last two funders present a similar opportunity for a public announcement on the day or will the decision be made after the meetings / tours of the stadium?

[10000hours]

Don't know if it is safe to post anything on here as the 25th May seems a long time ago for this thread. I see questions for the cic on other threads. Is everyone ok who has posted here or are there any missing persons with a history of trying to post after 25th May? "Is it safe?"... "Is it safe?"....Just don't want my teeth pulled out

Your questions are still more than welcome.

[10000hours]

'kay, I'll go...

When the club required its last critical decision there was a big show of supporters outside the c"ntcil buildings when they were voting on the planning to allow the stadium move to progress. The scenes of celebrations when it was announced we had been successful were great.

We now appear to be at a similar stage with the CIC. Will the visit by the last two funders present a similar opportunity for a public announcement on the day or will the decision be made after the meetings / tours of the stadium?

The decision will unfortunantly not be made on the day of the meeting, but after some further discusions.

[reborn saint]

Your questions are still more than welcome.

Do you know why some football delegates will have spoken in a negative way about the cic as a post on another thread here by a reputable member has suggested they have.

[Stuart Dickson]

Do you know why some football delegates will have spoken in a negative way about the cic as a post on another thread here by a reputable member has suggested they have.

Reputable? Me? Never though I'd see that on a St Mirren forum!

I know questions are meant to be left for 10000hours to answer on this thread but since I made the original post on this yesterday it's probably more fair that I respond. The negative comments centred around the process which one of the guys from Partick Thistle reckoned was all back to front. Some of the points he made about signing up community members before the CIC had a football board in place that could sanction requests that may affect the money left to run the club rang true with some of the experiences I've been having with the CIC.

I had a phone conversation with RA after the conference and I don't think I'm betraying trust by saying he agreed it was back to front but that it had to be because they were buying out the existing board rather than have the current board convert the club as happened at Clyde and Stenhousmuir.

Now I've cooled down and reflected on the information and the inspirational stories from yesterday I'd say it's really just reaffirmed my position. I still think the CIC route is something that fans should be excited about. The possibilities for community involvement seem genuinely limitless. However it's tempered by a worry that many of the people who will be voting to elect their boards don't appear to have a grasp on just how important the community aspect has to be.

[garzo]

Reputable? Me? Never though I'd see that on a St Mirren forum!

I know questions are meant to be left for 10000hours to answer on this thread but since I made the original post on this yesterday it's probably more fair that I respond. The negative comments centred around the process which one of the guys from Partick Thistle reckoned was all back to front. Some of the points he made about signing up community members before the CIC had a football board in place that could sanction requests that may affect the money left to run the club rang true with some of the experiences I've been having with the CIC.

I had a phone conversation with RA after the conference and I don't think I'm betraying trust by saying he agreed it was back to front but that it had to be because they were buying out the existing board rather than have the current board convert the club as happened at Clyde and Stenhousmuir.

Now I've cooled down and reflected on the information and the inspirational stories from yesterday I'd say it's really just reaffirmed my position. I still think the CIC route is something that fans should be excited about. The possibilities for community involvement seem genuinely limitless. However it's tempered by a worry that many of the people who will be voting to elect their boards don't appear to have a grasp on just how important the community aspect has to be.

respecting your comments and point of view.

my observation is that the community aspect is to the fore at present and perhaps always will be.

If this proves to be for the betterment of the football club and team then great lets go for it.

I would prefer a different focus.