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10000 Hours Q&A Thread


davidg

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respecting your comments and point of view.

my observation is that the community aspect is to the fore at present and perhaps always will be.

If this proves to be for the betterment of the football club and team then great lets go for it.

I would prefer a different focus.

I tend to agree that the focus has been weighted towards the 'community' aspect of the whole deal. However, as things stand, I don't find that either surprising or worrying. The basic fact of the matter is that the group formed to buy out the consortium is a Community Interest Company, and in order to receive the requisite grants and loans - has to prove in great detail what benefit to the community at large they will be delivering. 10000hours CIC is coming into the football club, and of course, it goes without saying that the football side of things is vitally important - otherwise they really shouldn't be bothering, but I can understand why they would want, as this juncture in proceedings, to be majoring in on the community benefits side of it.

I don't think it would be betraying any trust to relay this story. During a meeting I had with Richard Atkinson about graphics related matters, the meeting was interrupted while he conducted an interview with a national newspaper about the deal. He was speaking passionately about the whole deal, but he was talking football, about what can be done here, about sweeping away the negativity that surrounds our national game, and how with genuine supporter engagement, instead of things wobbling along at some other clubs on the knife-edge of sugar daddy dependency, we can change the entire way we do things - for the better. He wasn't talking about churches using the suite, kids being trained in bar work, coffee baristas working their magic, or boat sales in the car park.... important as all of that is. He was talking football.

He might not be a lifelong Buddie, but I still haven't seen anything to alter my view that he deserves backing and support to give him a fair go at really making this work for the benefit of the football club and community.

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I tend to agree that the focus has been weighted towards the 'community' aspect of the whole deal. However, as things stand, I don't find that either surprising or worrying. The basic fact of the matter is that the group formed to buy out the consortium is a Community Interest Company, and in order to receive the requisite grants and loans - has to prove in great detail what benefit to the community at large they will be delivering. 10000hours CIC is coming into the football club, and of course, it goes without saying that the football side of things is vitally important - otherwise they really shouldn't be bothering, but I can understand why they would want, as this juncture in proceedings, to be majoring in on the community benefits side of it.

I don't think it would be betraying any trust to relay this story. During a meeting I had with Richard Atkinson about graphics related matters, the meeting was interrupted while he conducted an interview with a national newspaper about the deal. He was speaking passionately about the whole deal, but he was talking football, about what can be done here, about sweeping away the negativity that surrounds our national game, and how with genuine supporter engagement, instead of things wobbling along at some other clubs on the knife-edge of sugar daddy dependency, we can change the entire way we do things - for the better. He wasn't talking about churches using the suite, kids being trained in bar work, coffee baristas working their magic, or boat sales in the car park.... important as all of that is. He was talking football.

He might not be a lifelong Buddie, but I still haven't seen anything to alter my view that he deserves backing and support to give him a fair go at really making this work for the benefit of the football club and community.

thats good to hear

with the greatest of respect and not doubting this is your experience but

I've not heard 1 single uttering from RA or the CIC team as to their ambitions for the St Mirren football team

Its a real pity and I do hope the motives and priorities are well placed enough to have a positive spin off for the team - would much rather the emphasis was the other way round or at least equalised!

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thats good to hear

with the greatest of respect and not doubting this is your experience but

I've not heard 1 single uttering from RA or the CIC team as to their ambitions for the St Mirren football team

Its a real pity and I do hope the motives and priorities are well placed enough to have a positive spin off for the team - would much rather the emphasis was the other way round or at least equalised!

I agree with you Gary - I'm broadly supportive of the CIC plan, and have found RA himself to be well worthy of my trust, and for me to give the bloke my backing, but I've been a Saints fan since 1977, and if the CIC does not replace SG and Co with a successful and sustainable new platform for the benefit of the football club - then it has failed, no matter any off field successes in the sphere of community engagement.

If the deal concludes - I go along every week to applaud the players on the park, not the people in the boardroom!

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I agree with you Gary - I'm broadly supportive of the CIC plan, and have found RA himself to be well worthy of my trust, and for me to give the bloke my backing, but I've been a Saints fan since 1977, and if the CIC does not replace SG and Co with a successful and sustainable new platform for the benefit of the football club - then it has failed, no matter any off field successes in the sphere of community engagement.

If the deal concludes - I go along every week to applaud the players on the park, not the people in the boardroom!

pffft!!! :rolleyes: STick it in the debate threads stoopit. :P

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This is for 10000hrs to reply to.

As a retired financial adviser and first time poster I am still unsure how this whole thing works and therefore I need more information before I part with my hard earned pension. Would 10000hrs or RA please answer the following questions and put my mind to rest:

1. If RA can afford to buy Saint Mirren, why does he not do so then form the CIC?

2. Why havn't you approached every business who currently support Saint Mirren?

3. RA will have a slice of both SMFC and the CIC. This is a conflict of interest and should either SMFC or the CIC fall into financial problems, would RA's position become problematic?

4. What is RA's background and how can we (Saints fans) be sure he has the experience to make his proposal work?

5. If a CIC is for the benefit of the community, why have the supporters not been given the opportunity to decide who would be involved; for example - why are the Kibble tied up with this and when were they first approached?

6. A past posting from 10000hrs mentioned that 'there are experienced people within 10000hrs' able to run the new bar. Who are these people and what is there background? Are they connected to RA in any way?

7. I attended the meetings and to be honest it was like watching a 'time share selling' presentation. Why has RA not published, at the very least, an outline business plan for the supporters to read before making a financial commitment to the CIC?

8. What happens if supporters pull out of their £10 pledge? How will it affect the CIC?

9. Will the Maxi Group have any share of SMFC or the CIC?

10. The Kibble via RA have arranged a couple of events in the past month. What was earned and who benefited?

I want to help my team but I need everything on the table before I buy into this poorly explained scheme.

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10000hrs.....can you please reply to my questions (see below) posted 4th June. Thanks.

This is for 10000hrs to reply to.

As a retired financial adviser and first time poster I am still unsure how this whole thing works and therefore I need more information before I part with my hard earned pension. Would 10000hrs or RA please answer the following questions and put my mind to rest:

1. If RA can afford to buy Saint Mirren, why does he not do so then form the CIC?

2. Why havn't you approached every business who currently support Saint Mirren?

3. RA will have a slice of both SMFC and the CIC. This is a conflict of interest and should either SMFC or the CIC fall into financial problems, would RA's position become problematic?

4. What is RA's background and how can we (Saints fans) be sure he has the experience to make his proposal work?

5. If a CIC is for the benefit of the community, why have the supporters not been given the opportunity to decide who would be involved; for example - why are the Kibble tied up with this and when were they first approached?

6. A past posting from 10000hrs mentioned that 'there are experienced people within 10000hrs' able to run the new bar. Who are these people and what is there background? Are they connected to RA in any way?

7. I attended the meetings and to be honest it was like watching a 'time share selling' presentation. Why has RA not published, at the very least, an outline business plan for the supporters to read before making a financial commitment to the CIC?

8. What happens if supporters pull out of their £10 pledge? How will it affect the CIC?

9. Will the Maxi Group have any share of SMFC or the CIC?

10. The Kibble via RA have arranged a couple of events in the past month. What was earned and who benefited?

I want to help my team but I need everything on the table before I buy into this poorly explained scheme.

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I didn't know there was a direct email address for 10000hrs. My understanding was that this thread was the 10000hrs Q & A and as such would be the correct location to post my questions. The lack of response from 10000hrs only fuels the fire of doubt that the CIC is in fact the best way forward for our team.

10000hrs or RA, would you please take a few minutes to reply to my post of 4th and 6th June.

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10000hrs.....can you please reply to my questions (see below) posted 4th June. Thanks.

We will try and answer some of the questions for you below. A number of the answers appear elsewhere in the forum so will try and discuss with the moderators a way of putting together a Common Q & A section. Also becuase you have asked so many questions in the one mail we reach the re quote limit on the forum which is why the answer is split over two posts

This is for 10000hrs to reply to.

As a retired financial adviser and first time poster I am still unsure how this whole thing works and therefore I need more information before I part with my hard earned pension. Would 10000hrs or RA please answer the following questions and put my mind to rest:

1. If RA can afford to buy Saint Mirren, why does he not do so then form the CIC?

Just does not work that way. In doing that you would effectivley be buying the club and then donating it to the CIC, it is a bit more complex than that but that is the basic. You would also need to use taxed income to do it so it wopuld cost a great deal more than 2m to do it that way.

2. Why havn't you approached every business who currently support Saint Mirren?

If by support you mean currently sponsor St Mirren than we have spoken to a number of them and been approached also by them to us, but it is important to keep the two things separate 10000hours CIC is a separate legal entity, it cannot offer to current sponsors anything the club would offer as a freebie or an inducement. 10000hours on the commercial side has been working on engaging with new sponsors that have no current involvement and that would get involved more becasue of the CSR than because of the football element on 10000hours

3. RA will have a slice of both SMFC and the CIC. This is a conflict of interest and should either SMFC or the CIC fall into financial problems, would RA's position become problematic?

REA will have no greater conflict of interest than anyone else who happens to be both a member of 10000hours and a shareholder in SMFC, so not sure if by "slice" you mean something else

4. What is RA's background and how can we (Saints fans) be sure he has the experience to make his proposal work?

It is not just about REA but about the whole team that has been working on the proposal. The funding foundations would not be dealing with us if the founding team did not have the experince to make the proposal work.

5. If a CIC is for the benefit of the community, why have the supporters not been given the opportunity to decide who would be involved; for example - why are the Kibble tied up with this and when were they first approached?

Not sure we understand what you mean. Any supporter (individual) or Communuty organisation can approach 10000hours through the website and engage in the process.

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6. A past posting from 10000hrs mentioned that 'there are experienced people within 10000hrs' able to run the new bar. Who are these people and what is there background? Are they connected to RA in any way?

We have as part of the team ILPH's and others who have owned and operated such facilities in the past.

7. I attended the meetings and to be honest it was like watching a 'time share selling' presentation. Why has RA not published, at the very least, an outline business plan for the supporters to read before making a financial commitment to the CIC?

We just have not done it that way, but instead focused on raising the support first. 10000hours is a Community interest Company, and it was considered more important to confirm that the community was first interested than putting out more deatailed financials. If the deal concludes then the business plans will be avaliable to be fully scrutinised by the membership.

8. What happens if supporters pull out of their £10 pledge? How will it affect the CIC?

Less money in obviously means less money avaliable to support and pay back any debt elements of the 2m fund raising. However the business plan is robust and very conservative and the pledges are currently running a more than twice what the buisness plan requires.

9. Will the Maxi Group have any share of SMFC or the CIC?

No

10. The Kibble via RA have arranged a couple of events in the past month. What was earned and who benefited?

In one event:

Kibble benifited by providing the food and service, they were both paid but importantly can also identify over 1000hours of training that they have provided to their user groups in the performance of the operation

One of the other organisations rasied a 5 figure sum via the event

The club took a four figure sum in bar takings

I want to help my team but I need everything on the table before I buy into this poorly explained scheme.

We are sorry you feel it has been poorly explained. we are happy to meet one on one if you feel you would benefit from further explanation

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The lack of response from 10000hrs only fuels the fire of doubt that the CIC is in fact the best way forward for our team.

10000hrs or RA, would you please take a few minutes to reply to my post of 4th and 6th June.

That's a tad harsh. You posted your first message on a Friday afternoon, and the second on Monday morning. Are people not allowed a weekend off?!

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That's a tad harsh. You posted your first message on a Friday afternoon, and the second on Monday morning. Are people not allowed a weekend off?!

Thank you for your input however I would request that you demonstrate some restraint during this time. I did not know that the web site had specific opening times. There was no harm intended.

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For 10000hrs to respond to. Thank you.

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. I am not convinced you have fully answered my questions, for example; you know who will be operating the new bar.... I am asking you if it is anyone connected to you - a family member perhaps. Please confirm.

You confirm that the business plan is robust and very conservative yet you are not able to publish an outline business plan that prospective investors/saints fans can study prior to commiting to a purchase. Providing a business plan after purchasing shares in the CIC could back fire on the CIC if the content of the business plan doesn't sit with anyone who has baught into the CIC.

This may come over as negative thinking however I am sure 10000hrs will agree that I am simply engaging in my own due diligence before I commit. Offering to meet on a one on one basis is very much appreciated however there shoul be no need to do so if the business plan is as robust as you claim it to be. Lets get everything out in the open, otherwise it can come accross as there is an alternative agenda.

I have supported Saint Mirren all my life and want to continue to do so therefore I ask 10000hrs to clarify if anyone running the new bar will be related to RA and if you will publish an outline business plan to allow all interested parties the opportunity to make an informed decision 'before' deciding to commit to any financial arrangements with the CIC.

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For 10000hrs to respond to. Thank you.

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. I am not convinced you have fully answered my questions, for example; you know who will be operating the new bar.... I am asking you if it is anyone connected to you - a family member perhaps. Please confirm.

The bar is not going to be operated by an external operator but by the CIC. The CIC will make the profit on a match day and not an individual operator.

You confirm that the business plan is robust and very conservative yet you are not able to publish an outline business plan that prospective investors/saints fans can study prior to commiting to a purchase. Providing a business plan after purchasing shares in the CIC could back fire on the CIC if the content of the business plan doesn't sit with anyone who has baught into the CIC.

It is just not practical to issue the sort of level of detail that would give enough for comment on at this point, but be assured that the plan has been assessed in some detail by independent organisations and found to be robust.

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For 10000hrs to reply to.

Thank you for your reply.

You have confirmed that you are able to provide a business plan however decided not to provide one for public scrutiny for reasons only fully known to CIC and/or RA....this is a concern. If you have complete confidence in your proposal then why not give everyone, not just the funding organisations, the freedom to study the business plan before investing in the CIC?

To the question of who will run the new bar. I have asked this question twice and have asked you 'who' they are and are they connected to RA in any way. Twice you have replied yet refused to provide a straight YES or NO. I will break the question down for you one more time as I am sure there will be a few fans interested in your answer.

You have confirmed that you know who will be running the new bar....I am asking you if it is anyone connected to RA, a family member or friends etc? The answer is a simple YES or NO.

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Thank you for your input however I would request that you demonstrate some restraint during this time. I did not know that the web site had specific opening times. There was no harm intended.

:blink: :blink: :blink:

Someone needs to show restraint, but I'm not sure it's aldo!

For 10000hrs to reply to.

Thank you for your reply.

You have confirmed that you are able to provide a business plan however decided not to provide one for public scrutiny for reasons only fully known to CIC and/or RA....this is a concern. If you have complete confidence in your proposal then why not give everyone, not just the funding organisations, the freedom to study the business plan before investing in the CIC?

To the question of who will run the new bar. I have asked this question twice and have asked you 'who' they are and are they connected to RA in any way. Twice you have replied yet refused to provide a straight YES or NO. I will break the question down for you one more time as I am sure there will be a few fans interested in your answer.

You have confirmed that you know who will be running the new bar....I am asking you if it is anyone connected to RA, a family member or friends etc? The answer is a simple YES or NO.

Once again, a legit answer to a question isn't enough...

Perhaps, as already suggested, an FAQ with a lot of this stuff up might be the way forward!

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ktf, my post is for the attention of 10000hrs. I would ask you not to jump in. Please respect my request. I am one of the undecided with a respectable amount of money available to invest in Saint Mirren. Thank you.

To 10000hrs, I look forward to your reply to the questions I posted this afternoon.

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