10000 Hours Q&A Thread

[Guthro]

Think my question may have been missed in all the sunshine holiday fun. Any chance of a reply? Thanks.

I'm not sure if this has been answered already, but I can't see it anywhere and it's the question i've saw asked the most....

Just what is in it for the likes of Richard and Chris? What are/do they get out of this? They're putting in a lot of man hours (and presumably money in legal fee's etc. It's difficult for the cynical amongst us (like me) to see what benefit they're getting, other than the obvious directors of an SPL club.

Is it the chance to sell off the rights to a 10,000 hours type thing to other (football) clubs, or offer their services to other interested party(s) for a fee? Which i'd have no problem with, as it would mean St Mirren's CIC is a success.

[Sonny]

Dont know if this has been asked before so I apologise in advance if it has.

What are 10000hrs doing to inform the non-internet fans?

I know many fans who do not use fans' forums nor the internet. Are letters being sent to Season Ticket holders or leaflets handed out before games?

Edited April 27, 2011 by Sonny

[10000hours]

I'm not sure if this has been answered already, but I can't see it anywhere and it's the question i've saw asked the most....

Just what is in it for the likes of Richard and Chris? What are/do they get out of this? They're putting in a lot of man hours (and presumably money in legal fee's etc. It's difficult for the cynical amongst us (like me) to see what benefit they're getting, other than the obvious directors of an SPL club.

We accept that to the cynics it might look like there is some magic plan behind all this which allows us to make a lot of money somehow, there simply is not. Someone has to be at the beginning and it just happens to have been us, right time right place.

What we will get out of it will in the end be the same as anyone else that choses to get involved at any level. As a corporate member we will make the useful contacts that we believe all the corporate members will have access to and that is worth something. At the end of the day you only live once so at least try and live to the full.

Is it the chance to sell off the rights to a 10,000 hours type thing to other (football) clubs, or offer their services to other interested party(s) for a fee? Which i'd have no problem with, as it would mean St Mirren's CIC is a success.

This is possible in theory, remember though that the money would need to stay in the CIC it is not a way of the somehow making individual money.

10000hours CIC

[10000hours]

Dont know if this has been asked before so I apologise in advance if it has.

What are 10000hrs doing to inform the non-internet fans?

I know many fans who do not use fans' forums nor the internet. Are letters being sent to Season Ticket holders or leaflets handed out before games?

This is simple economics at the moment.

We decided that there was no point in doing a big printed media campaign costing thousands of pound if we could not at least get the online community to get us resonable starting numbers.

Now that it is clear that the enthusiasm for this project is out there....."the community IS interested" then an operation to get hold and inform those that dont use the internet etc will begin shortly.

The last game of the season and the season ticket renewals are key points that we will start producing bits of paper etc, it is important that we do not leave anyone behind, but there is only so uch we can do at once.

10000hours CIC

[Guest somner9]

We don't see how St Mirren FC could do this. It is a separate company and the directors have legal responsibilty to that Ltd Company not the CIC, so even if all the boards you refer to wanted to do it we dont see how they could.

thanks for the answers, what are the contingincies if as could happen SMFC leaves the SPL next season, (given that the playing staff budget is already under extreme pressure with the likelyhood that yet again some of our better performing players will move on as the budget will not afford a new and acceptable contract) the gates drop, the membership drops and related revvenue streams?

We believe that we have given in our presentation the facts behind what would need to happen in order for the club player budget to increase by 20%, by the end of the first year of CIC involvement. It is then down to the management team as to how they take this increased budget in order to improve the on field activity.

sorry didn't see any detail on that

We are NEVER going to make any unprovable promises, and would far rather that the CIC model under promised but over delivered than the other way around.

good, but since you seek to take control of our football club, whats in it for the football club, Now?

Our presentaion and a number of the public and private questions asked there after went into some detail on where this additional money would come from, it was both costed, specific and gave a time scale. If you were not at the meeting please feel free to e-mail at [email protected] and we would be happy to arrange a face to face with you and we can take you through the fine detail of the workings that get us to a 20% increase in our SPL playing budget.

It is up to you if you want to take this offer up.

thanks thursday night at the meeting then

Sorry we dont understand the question

why hasnt RA or Kibbles tried this social experiment with their own company/companies????

That is why all of those have got to be sure of the model and why we have spent a year in the background checking, re checking and doing the due diligence on this whole proposal, so that it does work and does not "crash and burn"

hopefully it wont, but then agin you wish to run an experiment with our football club that has no risk from your perspective, and worst case the end of our club from ours. but you don't want to try this with your own business, who could blame you.

10000hours

Edited April 27, 2011 by 10000hours

[Guest somner9]

Q. is there a TV documentary being made regarding this whole process?

[10000hours]

Q. is there a TV documentary being made regarding this whole process?

No.

Where on earth did you hear that from?

I realise 10000hours are not supposed to be asking the questions but that is a cracker!

[Drew]

No.

Where on earth did you hear that from?

I realise 10000hours are not supposed to be asking the questions but that is a cracker!

ETA: on a serious note, who suggested that the CIC couldn't ask questions? I think that could be quite a useful take on this board.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Drew

[10000hours]

Firstly we have edited the format (not the content) of your previous post to make it easier to read and respond to

thanks for the answers, what are the contingincies if as could happen SMFC leaves the SPL next season, (given that the playing staff budget is already under extreme pressure with the likelyhood that yet again some of our better performing players will move on as the budget will not afford a new and acceptable contract) the gates drop, the membership drops and related revvenue streams?

Remember you are speaking about two different companies. St Mirren FC has its own financial planning options should relegation happen at any point. These are robust and while painful are acheivable.

Should the CIC get into difficult at some point then as previously noted firstly the money involved is not tradition Bank money and that the ultimate worst case would be in a few years the CIC is just looking to sell the 52% to someone else which is exactly where the club is at today

sorry didn't see any detail on that

You will see more if you come to one of the meetings

good, but since you seek to take control of our football club, whats in it for the football club, Now?

Right Now as is day + 1 after purchase what is in it for the club is being controlled by the group that care for it the most, after that it is about those same individuals, community groups and businesses knowing that every bit of effort they put into the club helps them own it , control it and destine its future

thanks thursday night at the meeting then

Very much looking forward to hearing from you at it

why hasnt RA or Kibbles tried this social experiment with their own company/companies????

Kibble is a Charity and so not avaliable for sale, although it does run on very similar lines to the corporate CIC structure and is about x10 the size of business of St MIrren

Maxi Group is not for sale, but if a group in the community want to get together to make an offer to the owners (like 10000hours, with its members is doing to the majoroty owners of St Mirren FC) then the owners of Maxi Group can consider it if they like.

hopefully it wont, but then agin you wish to run an experiment with our football club that has no risk from your perspective, and worst case the end of our club from ours. but you don't want to try this with your own business, who could blame you.

We are not doing this on the basis of "hoping" it works and funding organisations would not fund it if we were.

The worst case is outlined above. Nothing that happens will mean the end of the club, that is frankly nonsense.

We are not trying it with our own buisnesses for the reasons noted above.

10000hours

[10000hours]

ETA: on a serious note, who suggested that the CIC couldn't ask questions? I think that could be quite a useful take on this board.

Lets see if the first 10000hours asked question gets an answer first and then we will take a view on it.

[pozbaird]

No.

Where on earth did you hear that from?

I realise 10000hours are not supposed to be asking the questions but that is a cracker!

Disappointed to hear that there isn't a documentary being made.

Fancy a book about it instead?

[Guest somner9]

if as an example in a previous post there were a downturn in the clubs fortunes i.e. exit from the SPL, reduced revenue stream etc. and the obvious need to cut the cloth accordingly followed, to what degree would members of the CiC be involved in deciding what costs were cut or reduced?

would it be in the form of recommendations from the "Club" and "Executive" boards? or would it be a bottom up process with the suggestions/recommendations coming from the members board?

[Guest somner9]

No.

Where on earth did you hear that from?

I realise 10000hours are not supposed to be asking the questions but that is a cracker!

glad to hear that, correcting a malicious rumour posted elsewhere. maybe in your public interactions though, (inclusive of your post response above) you would encourage more involvement if you avoided the slip towards derision, (and using that to seek greater engagement with the people who support your proposal)

David Cameron got that wrong today, perhaps thats one lesson we can learn from him

[pozbaird]

glad to hear that, correcting a malicious rumour posted elsewhere. maybe in your public interactions though, (inclusive of your post response above) you would encourage more involvement if you avoided the slip towards derision, (and using that to seek greater engagement with the people who support your proposal)

David Cameron got that wrong today, perhaps thats one lesson we can learn from him

Come on FFS, that's uncalled for!

[Guest somner9]

Come on FFS, that's uncalled for!

which bit?

:-me thanking 10000 hours for rightly rubbishing a malicious rumour?

:-don't "join in" with the "lets rubbish" the people as yet unconviced with the CiC proposal?

:- or david cameron making an arsenal of himself today?

[pozbaird]

which bit?

:-me thanking 10000 hours for rightly rubbishing a malicious rumour?

:-don't "join in" with the "lets rubbish" the people as yet unconviced with the CiC proposal?

:- or david cameron making an arsenal of himself today?

You want to play silly buggers, go ahead.

I'm out.

[alanmurray24]

Disappointed to hear that there isn't a documentary being made.

Fancy a book about it instead?

You could take some photo`s of RA answering each question and also include person/s asking questions.........think you will have a bestseller there Poz

PS. some in black and white would be good......atmospheric!!!!

[smfcok]

In the absolute worst case senario then should the whole thing fall down, then yes in theory you could just be back at square one with 52% of the shares back up for sale, which is where we are at today.

10000hours

If the CiC had to sell the 52% of the shares for some unforeseen reason in the future, where would the money go?

[bingboy]

glad to hear that, correcting a malicious rumour posted elsewhere. maybe in your public interactions though, (inclusive of your post response above) you would encourage more involvement if you avoided the slip towards derision, (and using that to seek greater engagement with the people who support your proposal)

David Cameron got that wrong today, perhaps thats one lesson we can learn from him

Perhaps you wouldn't leave yourself open to "derision" if you actually bothered to read any of the literature relating to 10000 Hours before asking question after question based mainly on suspicion and lack of understanding.

[Kemp]

I'm excited by the CIC proposals and would love to see this work out.

However, I continue to have some major concerns, which mainly come from the 2m asking price for 52% of the club. From reading the twitter feed of the meeting (I live in Africa and it will be something of a tall order to attend one of the meetings!) the point was raised, and the answer given by RA is far from informative.

The issue of the club "not being debt" by the CIC taking out loans is easy enough to understand, the idea that this does not put the club at risk is proving somewhat more difficult for me to get my head around.

I have a healthy fear of free money given the present economic situation in Europe.

To say the club "would be in the same position" if the CIC failed financially does not add up for me. Question 1: Surely the CIC could be forced in to a position of making a quick sale? Worst case scenario; 52% of the club could be sold to a Reg Brealy esque character?

Question 2: Where does this figure of 2m come from if nobody has bid anything close to that amount? The 2m concerns me as I see it as incredibly large figure for the CIC to pay off over any reasonable length of time. My personal view is if the club is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay, surely a figure of 1m would be a fairer price for 52% of the club.

Question 3: If RA and the leaders of the CIC are so confident that St Mirren can generate sufficent profit to pay off this loan, will the present commercial department of St Mirren be replaced due to their poor track record thus far in making St Mirren a profitable business?

I honestly believe the CIC is going to pay over the odds in exchange for the public backing of SG and the present board.

[St. Sid]

thanks thursday night at the meeting then

Not so much a question as a plea - if somner9 is going to be asking his rambling angry questions.....................please open the bar again!!!!

[Robo]

Is the CIC a limited company, and if so does it have its own shareholders? Who owns the CIC - is it the members, or shareholders, or the exec board, or none of the above?

[aldo_j]

Is the CIC a limited company, and if so does it have its own shareholders? Who owns the CIC - is it the members, or shareholders, or the exec board, or none of the above?

Type CIC in to google and that will answer your question, plenty on the subject and a Government website dedicated to it listing all the CICs in existence.

Not a dig at you, just surprised the number of times you read something on here having a go at the CIC that haven't even tried to grasp the basic concept.

http://www.cicregulator.gov.uk/

[Robo]

Type CIC in to google and that will answer your question, plenty on the subject and a Government website dedicated to it listing all the CICs in existence.

Not a dig at you, just surprised the number of times you read something on here having a go at the CIC that haven't even tried to grasp the basic concept.

http://www.cicregulator.gov.uk/

Having a go at the CIC??? I've already pledged my membership - I was just interested in how the CIC is structured and assumed that a dedicated Q&A thread might be a good place to get an answer. But apparently not.

Not a dig a you, just surprised how some people can appear to get so irritated at someone asking a question.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Robo

[aldo_j]

Having a go at the CIC??? I've already pledged my membership - I was just interested in how the CIC is structured and assumed that a dedicated Q&A thread might be a good place to get an answer. But apparently not.

Not a dig a you, just surprised how some people can appear to get so irritated at someone asking a question.

Like I said bud, wasn't directed at you. Just thought instead of having some divvy trying to explain the structure on here it may be better to look at one of the websites on the subject. Reading some of the stuff on here, it's clear that there are some who seem to have plenty to say but they have failed to grasp the basic concept of the CIC.

Like I said, was never directed at you. More the eejit further back in the thread! Sorry!