Public Meetings

[Stu]

Maybe he meant sits on the board of a few organisations. Think he's also involved at a national level with a church ( not sure which one).

Fair enough.

The boat sale that's happening this weekend at GH rd carpark was also his doing.

One question....what's a boat sale?

Yeah, I'd heard about that because attempts to by some of the OS forum folk to have some five a sides on Sunday had to be cancelled because of it. Someone posted a link to the website which cleared up absolutely nothing. maybe it's a car boot sale using boats instead of boots

[Reynard]

Really? I'm only aware of him being director of a few companies that are part of Maxi Group and some equestrian group.

Yeah

He is also a director of the Scottish Bible Society.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Reynard

[Drew]

Yeah, I'd heard about that because attempts to by some of the OS forum folk to have some five a sides on Sunday had to be cancelled because of it.

Was it ever booked?

[Kendo]

Did anybody talk about attacking football, filling the corners in , cheap pies, reduced admission prices, part time football and filling the Stadium on a regular basis.

Most importantly, did Gilmour mention how we are going to remove the Old Firm before reconstruction takes place ?

THIS WILL END IN DISASTER .

Why did you not go . After all it was free to get in, you could have put these points to the board.

[pozbaird]

Yeah, I'd heard about that because attempts to by some of the OS forum folk to have some five a sides on Sunday had to be cancelled because of it. Someone posted a link to the website which cleared up absolutely nothing. maybe it's a car boot sale using boats instead of boots

Stu. Big Smiler started the latest 5 a sides thread, asked us to do the usual and stick our names on the list. The big muppet never actually booked the pitch. He tried to book it a couple of days ago, the place isn't available.

Schoolboy error - the big fella' is a good guy, he's apologised and has offered to buy us all a pint. Daft big Southern jessie so he is!

I'm trying to re-organise it for Sun May 15th, 12 noon. Will phone the club on Monday to try and get it booked.

Edited April 29, 2011 by pozbaird

[pozbaird]

Is there not a game that day on the big pitch.

Sat 14th May for the final game v Fake Saints, according to official website fixture list.

[TsuMirren]

Sat 14th May for the final game v Fake Saints, according to official website fixture list.

He means the Saints Aid 8 match, the kick off has been changed to 12 on the 15th.

[pozbaird]

He means the Saints Aid 8 match, the kick off has been changed to 12 on the 15th.

Apologies - I had no idea! I'll phone the club to see if they can accomodate a game of fives while the superstars strut their stuff next door!

[supermac]

Edit

Edited May 28, 2011 by supermac

[TsuMirren]

Any chat last night about the shoddy treatment of McGeoch and Scott by the other directors?

There were voices about the price, once Gilmour left. Nothing about the "treatment", even after Gilmour left.

Thing is though...and you may not quite understasnd this yet...the meetings are about the CIC, not about events prior to the CIC, RA joining the board or even RA reading about the club being for sale and subsequently presenting an idea to the consortium.

The meetings simply aren't the place for that. Who'd have the answers?

[bud77]

I found last nights meeting really worthwhile too. I really warmed to the idea of the CIC and thought Mr Atkinson came across very well.

The thing I'm still not entirely sure about is his where his drive and motivation comes from. There is a reliance that people will invest, spend and utilise the clubs facilities because they care for the club and the community. But he's neither a fan nor local.

He's personally invested a huge amount of time to this point and has a lot more to do. What's his motivation? Unless he's just a great guy with a lot of time who likes helping people. I'm trying to write this without sounding like a cheeky b@st@rd (thats the reason that I never asked last night), I'm just genuinely interested if anyone knows?

He did say last night that through Maxi group he had been involved in bidding for and building a junior football ground and found out it was being funded through a CIC. For some of other groups he was involved with, he was looking to use the CIC model to help fund facilities and found it interesting (whether that's because he has a social conscience or is just a bit of a geek wasn't stated). The reason he got involved with St Mirren is because Glasgow Ladies team were looking to have a fixed facility and he was asked if he knew anywhere, he later saw an advert for an SPL football team with training ground for sale and he contacted the firm dealing with the sale about the possibility of only buying Ralston for use by Glasgow Ladies and being funded by a CIC. The lawyers contacted him (probably after doing some background checks and credit checks) and contacted him about it and it ended with RA putting together a presentation to the board about using a CIC to buy the 52% shares. The board had a 20 minute meeting and informed RA it was the best option they had heard and co-opted him to the board to look at in further detail.

Listening to RA last night my guess is he's not quite a geek but does have a social conscience.

[St. Sid]

He did say last night that through Maxi group he had been involved in bidding for and building a junior football ground and found out it was being funded through a CIC. For some of other groups he was involved with, he was looking to use the CIC model to help fund facilities and found it interesting (whether that's because he has a social conscience or is just a bit of a geek wasn't stated). The reason he got involved with St Mirren is because Glasgow Ladies team were looking to have a fixed facility and he was asked if he knew anywhere, he later saw an advert for an SPL football team with training ground for sale and he contacted the firm dealing with the sale about the possibility of only buying Ralston for use by Glasgow Ladies and being funded by a CIC. The lawyers contacted him (probably after doing some background checks and credit checks) and contacted him about it and it ended with RA putting together a presentation to the board about using a CIC to buy the 52% shares. The board had a 20 minute meeting and informed RA it was the best option they had heard and co-opted him to the board to look at in further detail.

Listening to RA last night my guess is he's not quite a geek but does have a social conscience.

I think the inspiration / motivation has been fairly well explained. Very energetic young guy with experience at the right level of both corporate, sports and voluntary organisations. If we were to scour the country looking for a condidate to come into St Mirren I think we would struggle to find a better candidate. For me the big interesting point in his background is the fact that Maxi Groups construction company is involved in the building of stadiums - could be within his gift or through some clever accounting / funding to fill in our corners making our stadium the absolute dogz bollox. Maybe a leap too far, but I think we need to be dreaming big for the club now we have people in play that can make things happen for us.

[Dibbles old paperboy]

RA also said he thought £2m was a fair or even a cheap asking price for the club and hinted he could have bought the club himself without using the CIC method and involving the fans. SG said earlier that the consortium had knocked back an offer of more than £2m from an Italian consortium who would have borrowed against St Mirren's assets to pay for buying the majority shareholding... and the ground etc would have been the security on the loan and we would be back to where the club was 15 years ago in terms of the debt levels owed to the bank.

RA also said he thought the £2m asking price was cheap when you consider the valuation of the new ground and Ralston is close to £12m and said to take control of managing assets worth £12m for a £2m asking price was in his business opinion pretty cheap. RA also mentioned that as well as what the consortium paid originally for their shares you have to factor in the years of soft loans and remortgaging their house to keep St Mirren afloat and also the amount of times the directors have paid for things for the club like heart monitors for the players (cost £4k) and never claimed the money back from the club. RA concluded by saying that while the consortium were making a profit on their original investment that he didn't think any of them were guilty of profiteering from their involvement with the club over the years.

RA also indicated that while the consortium will be reinvesting some of their profit from the sale back into the club they weren't seeking election to the BoD again but would be around to advise the board and the CIC if either of them wanted their advise or to utilize their experience.

[pod]

RA also said he thought £2m was a fair or even a cheap asking price for the club and hinted he could have bought the club himself without using the CIC method and involving the fans. SG said earlier that the consortium had knocked back an offer of more than £2m from an Italian consortium who would have borrowed against St Mirren's assets to pay for buying the majority shareholding... and the ground etc would have been the security on the loan and we would be back to where the club was 15 years ago in terms of the debt levels owed to the bank.

RA also said he thought the £2m asking price was cheap when you consider the valuation of the new ground and Ralston is close to £12m and said to take control of managing assets worth £12m for a £2m asking price was in his business opinion pretty cheap. RA also mentioned that as well as what the consortium paid originally for their shares you have to factor in the years of soft loans and remortgaging their house to keep St Mirren afloat and also the amount of times the directors have paid for things for the club like heart monitors for the players (cost £4k) and never claimed the money back from the club. RA concluded by saying that while the consortium were making a profit on their original investment that he didn't think any of them were guilty of profiteering from their involvement with the club over the years.

RA also indicated that while the consortium will be reinvesting some of their profit from the sale back into the club they weren't seeking election to the BoD again but would be around to advise the board and the CIC if either of them wanted their advise or to utilize their experience.

Isn't the ground at Ralston leased from the council.

[Stuart Dickson]

Isn't the ground at Ralston leased from the council.

That's what I thought, and even then that sounds grossly inflated for a site like Ralston anyway. I would have thought that the full Greenhill Road site was worth around £4m and on the face of it Ralston could be a revenue raising asset for the club but I can't see where a £12m valuation would come from.

I've said it elsewhere on here though I think £2m to control 52% of the shares in the facilities at Greenhill Road is probably a fair price. The football team is pretty much worthless though. Even the brand wouldn't be worth much in real terms these days.

[bud77]

That's what I thought, and even then that sounds grossly inflated for a site like Ralston anyway. I would have thought that the full Greenhill Road site was worth around £4m and on the face of it Ralston could be a revenue raising asset for the club but I can't see where a £12m valuation would come from.

I've said it elsewhere on here though I think £2m to control 52% of the shares in the facilities at Greenhill Road is probably a fair price. The football team is pretty much worthless though. Even the brand wouldn't be worth much in real terms these days.

There is the question of how you value things. Is the ground at Ralston only worth the price for the property or is it worth potential earnings for hiring out 2 football pitches or is it somewhere between ? Is the price of St Mirren affected by buying one of the few founder clubs of the SFL that is still in existence ? The prices are all subjective depending on numerous factors, if you as a a St Mirren fan were asked to put a price on St Mirren just how do you value the memories ?

[Stu]

Stu. Big Smiler started the latest 5 a sides thread, asked us to do the usual and stick our names on the list. The big muppet never actually booked the pitch. He tried to book it a couple of days ago, the place isn't available.

Schoolboy error - the big fella' is a good guy, he's apologised and has offered to buy us all a pint. Daft big Southern jessie so he is!

I'm trying to re-organise it for Sun May 15th, 12 noon. Will phone the club on Monday to try and get it booked.

Thought I'd posted a reply to this, seems not. Wasn't having a go at Smiler in any way, just saying the boat sale group's website didn't tell you anything about what a boat sale is!

[steve_the_saint]

That's what I thought, and even then that sounds grossly inflated for a site like Ralston anyway. I would have thought that the full Greenhill Road site was worth around £4m and on the face of it Ralston could be a revenue raising asset for the club but I can't see where a £12m valuation would come from.

I've said it elsewhere on here though I think £2m to control 52% of the shares in the facilities at Greenhill Road is probably a fair price. The football team is pretty much worthless though. Even the brand wouldn't be worth much in real terms these days.

He said it cost £12m a couple of years ago to build so a cost of £2m he considered was fair.

I think Ralston has a 20 year lease on it or something. The lease will have a value though.

[Stuart Dickson]

He said it cost £12m a couple of years ago to build so a cost of £2m he considered was fair.

I think Ralston has a 20 year lease on it or something. The lease will have a value though.

Steve, I've never understood the ridiculous valuations put on football stadiums. I used to read some right silly ones quoted about Ibrox Park too that used to make me laugh.

Lets say St Mirren FC ceased to exist tomorrow, what, or who in the area would pay £12m for the stadium? Arthurlie? Johnston Burgh? Renfrew? Kelburn Hockey? It's nonsense. It doesn't matter what it cost to build, the value has to be what someone else is willing to pay for it - irrespective of the legal concessions in accounting afforded to football clubs regarding the cost of stadium improvements and their depreciation over time. There is clearly value in the land, and in the space in the building but I'd say £4m would be far closer to reality.

I didn't realise the lease at Ralston was for 20 years, I thought it was half that but yeah either way it would have some sort of value, as would the business of being a football complex.

[steve_the_saint]

Steve, I've never understood the ridiculous valuations put on football stadiums. I used to read some right silly ones quoted about Ibrox Park too that used to make me laugh.

Lets say St Mirren FC ceased to exist tomorrow, what, or who in the area would pay £12m for the stadium? Arthurlie? Johnston Burgh? Renfrew? Kelburn Hockey? It's nonsense. It doesn't matter what it cost to build, the value has to be what someone else is willing to pay for it - irrespective of the legal concessions in accounting afforded to football clubs regarding the cost of stadium improvements and their depreciation over time. There is clearly value in the land, and in the space in the building but I'd say £4m would be far closer to reality.

I didn't realise the lease at Ralston was for 20 years, I thought it was half that but yeah either way it would have some sort of value, as would the business of being a football complex.

Well you've said it yourself, the total assets could be worth 4m. To pay half that for just over half of the business would seem fair would it not?

[Stu]

Steve, I've never understood the ridiculous valuations put on football stadiums. I used to read some right silly ones quoted about Ibrox Park too that used to make me laugh.

Lets say St Mirren FC ceased to exist tomorrow, what, or who in the area would pay £12m for the stadium? Arthurlie? Johnston Burgh? Renfrew? Kelburn Hockey? It's nonsense. It doesn't matter what it cost to build, the value has to be what someone else is willing to pay for it - irrespective of the legal concessions in accounting afforded to football clubs regarding the cost of stadium improvements and their depreciation over time. There is clearly value in the land, and in the space in the building but I'd say £4m would be far closer to reality.

I didn't realise the lease at Ralston was for 20 years, I thought it was half that but yeah either way it would have some sort of value, as would the business of being a football complex.

Not just football stadiums or even football clubs it happens with. Dumfries and Galloway Council tried to gift an old school building to a project and claimed it was a contribution worth £1million. When the project fell through, they put it on the open market - for less than a third of that.

[chico]

At beer festival last night with a couple of mates.

View was very much that meetings were announced with short notice making it difficult to attend.

One guy had left email address with 10000 hrs and never got mailed the presentation ( neither did I, but I looked at it off a link on here)

Another comment was that all info had been online and too much work reading through the shite on b&w to get to the nub of the thing.

usual comment about all the stuff just being aimed so far at those that read the forums and know how to find stuff online.

[10000hours]

At beer festival last night with a couple of mates.

View was very much that meetings were announced with short notice making it difficult to attend.

One guy had left email address with 10000 hrs and never got mailed the presentation ( neither did I, but I looked at it off a link on here)

Another comment was that all info had been online and too much work reading through the shite on b&w to get to the nub of the thing.

usual comment about all the stuff just being aimed so far at those that read the forums and know how to find stuff online.

If you can forward the email address then we will forward the presentation directly.

A number of people who had registered did not get the e-mail back out due to a number of reasons, e.g mispelling of e-mail addresses, spam filiters etc.

Apologies if this has happened to you.

Offline information will go out for the St Johnstone Game

10000hours

[Stu]

A key question earlier in this thread has gone unanswered. Thanks to Google, I can now put people at ease:

"For those who don't know Boat Jumbles are marine markets where you can buy new and second hand water sports related items at huge discounts off regular retail outlets and online shops."

So there you go. It's a posh Golf Sale.

[TsuMirren]

A key question earlier in this thread has gone unanswered. Thanks to Google, I can now put people at ease:

"For those who don't know Boat Jumbles are marine markets where you can buy new and second hand water sports related items at huge discounts off regular retail outlets and online shops."

So there you go. It's a posh Golf Sale.

Well done Stu, nice to see a journalist finally doing some research on something related to the CIC.