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Decision time re: CIC


jimdickloyal
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I hope it turns out to meet the expectations of the CiC membership but I remain unconvinced of the sustainability and for that reason, I am out.

with 681 individual pledges made, whether I donate or not matters not a jot :)

I totaly understand your position and agree that for some saints fans buying into the cic might not be for them. I have friends who have been regular sth for many years and in the current financial climate adding £120 per year is not an option. This extra cost has to be made by fans who both believe in the cic and have the means to do so. There is a diffrence in not pledging to the cic and not suppoting it. I have listened to the sceptics and ignored the cynics and if anyone has a concern about the sustainability of the cic why dont you arrange a meeting with Richard as he is making himself MORE than availiabel.

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I was at the POTY dinner last night and the chat about the CIC was frightening.

The amount of people that have a negative view based on shear apathy & ignorance was incredible. Season ticket holders who haven't been to any of the public meetings with nothing more to say than "it's pish, it'll no work, what's in it for him?"

If this is going to work then as many fans & members of the community need to be involved. When you've got nuggets like this it makes it difficult. It's almost as if they want it to fail just so they can say I told you so.

Those who have studied the art and science of communication generally agree that if a message is not accurately received then it is usually the fault of the sender rather than the recipient.

Stop lambasting people who dont support it, if the CIC cant get their message across then they need to work harder.

It's simply not wise to proceed with the minimum amount of members if the majority remain unconvinced.

Edited by spirit of 77
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There is a diffrence in not pledging to the cic and not suppoting it. I have listened to the sceptics and ignored the cynics and if anyone has a concern about the sustainability of the cic why dont you arrange a meeting with Richard as he is making himself MORE than availiabel.

Reborn,

300 individual members were sought, if only 50% of the pledgers take up membership, the CiC will still exceed the requirement.

I agree, the more the merrier in terms of raising money to repay the loans/debt of the CiC.

perhaps if RA were to come to London, a beer & a chat with The London Saints could be arranged at the F3K, i'd certainly turn up with an open mind and be willing to change my mind about donating. :)

that's me done on the CiC

Edited by Kombi Buddie
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Those who have studied the art and science of communication generally agree that if a message is not accurately received then it is usually the fault of the sender rather than the recipient.

Stop lambasting people who dont support it, if the CIC cant get their message across then they need to work harder.

It's simply not wise to proceed with the minimum amount of members if the majority remain unconvinced.

That's all fair enough. It becomes marginally more difficult to stop lambasting people who have tried to become the awkward squad and have asked questions, been given answers, but carry on asking the same rubbish over and over. Either as themselves or with aliases.

Its forgiveable to ask questions/be a sceptic, I don't think anyone has been lambasted for that at all. It's not forgiveable to be a dull troll.

Most of the fans I know are quite willing to give this a chance. The guys I got to games with are all signing up for this because they want to see if it can work. £120 a year is not a lot of money to most people. I also know a few people who are not St.Mirren fans that are getting involved. THAT to me, is the good thing about this whole project. The more interested locals who are not necessarily emotionally attached to the club that get involved the better as far as I am concerned. It is a community thing and I think that's exciting.

I think a lot of our support will get involved. Some will be against it and a fair chunk won't give a stuff one way or another really. I am getting involved because I want to see how this works/ if it works.

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if a message is not accurately received then it is usually the fault of the sender rather than the recipient.

Stop lambasting people who dont support it, if the CIC cant get their message across then they need to work harder.

You can't force people to read the information or attend a meeting. See below, bloody phone.....

Edited by Jumbo Whiffy
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if a message is not accurately received then it is usually the fault of the sender rather than the recipient.

Stop lambasting people who dont support it, if the CIC cant get their message across then they need to work harder.

You can't force people to read the information or attend meetings. You can only make it available to them. If people have attempted to find out about it and don't agree with it, fair enough. If people do not have the means to support it, fair enough

The key words are ignorance & apathy. My experience at the POTY was that people were very vocal about it but had

done little or nothing to find out about it. To say something is "pish" and "won't work" with nothing to back it up, other than a bad attitude, isn't good enough. An informed well constructed opinion for either side is welcome. It's "shite", just because isn't.

The alternatives offered were rediculous. Most stating they want a millionaire "sugar daddy" to take over and throw cash at the club. Not a great idea, probably less sustainable long term (the longevity of both unknown at the moment), and the guy in question probably doesn't even exist.

One question for you though. Would you honestly describe that as a "lambasting"?

Edited by Jumbo Whiffy
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That's all fair enough. It becomes marginally more difficult to stop lambasting people who have tried to become the awkward squad and have asked questions, been given answers, but carry on asking the same rubbish over and over. Either as themselves or with aliases.

Its forgiveable to ask questions/be a sceptic, I don't think anyone has been lambasted for that at all. It's not forgiveable to be a dull troll.

Most of the fans I know are quite willing to give this a chance. The guys I got to games with are all signing up for this because they want to see if it can work. £120 a year is not a lot of money to most people. I also know a few people who are not St.Mirren fans that are getting involved. THAT to me, is the good thing about this whole project. The more interested locals who are not necessarily emotionally attached to the club that get involved the better as far as I am concerned. It is a community thing and I think that's exciting.

I think a lot of our support will get involved. Some will be against it and a fair chunk won't give a stuff one way or another really. I am getting involved because I want to see how this works/ if it works.

Same here Reynard. I'm in it because I can see the enormous potential coming from this, but as I've said in another thread I've become more sceptical over the last week. I genuinely don't think that having an electorate where the majority can't get past a debate on who might make a few pence from their pre match pint is going to be a good thing long term for either the CIC or for the football club and I'm concerned that to get elected a candidate might be asked more to produce their supporters club membership card and to prove their buying rounds of drinks record at the pub rather than questioned on their ability in business, their contacts and their past record in social enterprise networks.

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Same here Reynard. I'm in it because I can see the enormous potential coming from this, but as I've said in another thread I've become more sceptical over the last week. I genuinely don't think that having an electorate where the majority can't get past a debate on who might make a few pence from their pre match pint is going to be a good thing long term for either the CIC or for the football club and I'm concerned that to get elected a candidate might be asked more to produce their supporters club membership card and to prove their buying rounds of drinks record at the pub rather than questioned on their ability in business, their contacts and their past record in social enterprise networks.

I think the main thing we are witnessing form some people is the usual Scottish problem of deep set negativity. We must be the most conservative(small c ) and cautious nation around. It was the same when I decided I was going to go into business for myself. For every encouraging word I had a dozen doom mongerers telling me it would go wrong.

FFS! what a shower of gloomy bastards.

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There is a wee "inner circle" of sausage roll theives who feel their free lunch at the club will be scuppered when the wider support finally gets the inside track on the club. The ones moaning the loudest at the dinner were probably the ones that didn't pay to be there. Whyen I am President they will be the first up against the wall losing their "sausage roll" rights. :P

A dictatorship surrounds itself in creepy tie wearing [email protected] types that would sell their soul furra free sausage roll. Their "sausage" role is to manage unofficial communication and sometimes fishal communications such as match program articles, etc. Essentially they help the dictatorship manage the rumour mongering around club issues. In return they get free seats, places at dinners, sausage rolls, etc. With an open supporter led club they know their days are numbered and their shadily gained little inch of power will be gone forever....f"k them anaw. :P

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There is a wee "inner circle" of sausage roll theives who feel their free lunch at the club will be scuppered when the wider support finally gets the inside track on the club. The ones moaning the loudest at the dinner were probably the ones that didn't pay to be there. Whyen I am President they will be the first up against the wall losing their "sausage roll" rights. :P

if only you had said sooner, i'd have signed up weeks ago. Where do I take the pledge?

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There is a wee "inner circle" of sausage roll theives who feel their free lunch at the club will be scuppered when the wider support finally gets the inside track on the club. The ones moaning the loudest at the dinner were probably the ones that didn't pay to be there. Whyen I am President they will be the first up against the wall losing their "sausage roll" rights. :P

A dictatorship surrounds itself in creepy tie wearing [email protected] types that would sell their soul furra free sausage roll. Their "sausage" role is to manage unofficial communication and sometimes fishal communications such as match program articles, etc. Essentially they help the dictatorship manage the rumour mongering around club issues. In return they get free seats, places at dinners, sausage rolls, etc. With an open supporter led club they know their days are numbered and their shadily gained little inch of power will be gone forever....f"k them anaw. :P

im more of a, mince pie, man :D

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There is a wee "inner circle" of sausage roll theives who feel their free lunch at the club will be scuppered when the wider support finally gets the inside track on the club. The ones moaning the loudest at the dinner were probably the ones that didn't pay to be there. Whyen I am President they will be the first up against the wall losing their "sausage roll" rights. :P

A dictatorship surrounds itself in creepy tie wearing [email protected] types that would sell their soul furra free sausage roll. Their "sausage" role is to manage unofficial communication and sometimes fishal communications such as match program articles, etc. Essentially they help the dictatorship manage the rumour mongering around club issues. In return they get free seats, places at dinners, sausage rolls, etc. With an open supporter led club they know their days are numbered and their shadily gained little inch of power will be gone forever....f"k them anaw. :P

I know a few sausage roll thieves who wear ties but I've found that they generally hang out at funerals putting on a miserable attempt at faux mourning. I don't think any of the ones I've met get free seats at St Mirren Park but I can see the attraction for them and their ilk. After all there's a great deal of similarity between attending the wake for someone who has recently died, and hanging around the boardroom of a club being throttled to death by those currently in charge.... :P

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Absolutely!

The email that went out last night keeping the pledgers up-to-date encouraged anyone who is a pledger to come and speak to RA or any of the CIC folks during the evening, as a lot of them would be at the dinner. I was sitting near Richard (on the same table in fact) and, as far as I saw, no-one came to him with a question or a gripe or a criticism or a suggestion.

Could it be that non pledgers or fns who have yet to decide didn't have an invitation to come and speak to Richard and that is the reason "no-one came to him with a question or a gripe or a criticism or a suggestion"?

Edited by davidg
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The thing is, it's not like there hasn't been much information circulating about it. It hasn't been done on the quiet. It's not the case that someone who wants to know more is completely unable to get then stuff that they want. It is all (for the most part) here. It has been the same at the Q&A's and no-one (excepting michelle evans, bless her) came forward at those. Then the invite goes out to 700ish people to come and speak to him at the awards dinner. Say only 5% of those pledgers were at the dinner, that's still about 30 odd people...

The "maybe people just didn't/don't/can't know" excuse is wearing thin. Truthfully, I think it is that those who don't want it to happen (due to ignorance, cynicism, skepticism or I'll-feeling) find it much easier to bump their gums to like-minded mates over a pint or anonymously on an Internet forum than actually face the facts head on and make an informed decision.

Edited by ktf
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Could it be that non pledgers or fns who have yet to decide didn't have an invitation to come and speak to Richard and that is the reason "no-one came to him with a question or a gripe or a criticism or a suggestion"?

Or could it be that the ordinary fan can't afford to go to Club dinners?

Out of the posters on here who were present the other night.........how many actually dipped into their own pockets to pay for the ticket? :huh:

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If there are supporters out there who are saying 'don't know anything about it, not bothered about it, it's pish...' etc, etc, then it's purely down to them. There have been public and shareholders meetings, exposure on this website and the official one. Leaflets handed out at a home game, talk about it on the radio, TV, stories in the national and local papers, an open invitation to e-mail the people involved, and a dedicated 10000hours website set up.

I refuse to believe that there are any Saints fans who live in such an isolated bubble that they don't have the internet, don't have a family member or friend who has the internet, doesn't read the papers, watch the telly, listen to the radio, speak to mates about St Mirren, or was unaware that SG wanted out, and new guys had come in over a year ago.

'It's pish, don't know anything about it, don't care' - by now, that cuts no ice.

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