CIC constitution ideas

[bud77]

If the SNP hoarding rumour is true then there may in fact be regulations in play stopping political parties from sponsoring football clubs. We might not even need it in our constitution; however if we can put in in there then we should. I would even go far c"ntcillors, their relatives, general hingers on, henchmen and political party members.

Aren't the hoardings empty because there's an election in the next few days ?

Having thought about it I wouldn't think many politicians would get involved on a football team board as it could well be a vote loser for them. As in 'Ahm no voting fir him, he's on St Mirrens board an ah support .......'. Or 'Ahm no voting fir her, she's been on Saints board fir donkeys an done hee haw'

[jimdickloyal]

Sid - you've been around the internet for years now. I would have thought that the fact I quoted someone prior to my post, you might have realised that I was repsonding to their comment. Yes it's off topic - but I didn't take it there....

Don't let Sid get to you, he us a tortured soul who finds comfort as an internet assasin. More to be pitied than laughed at!

Don't let him ruin what is otherwise a good thread SD!

Right back on topic.....

I like the sports science idea.....something that would benefit the club and the community.

[St. Sid]

Sid - you've been around the internet for years now. I would have thought that the fact I quoted someone prior to my post, you might have realised that I was repsonding to their comment. Yes it's off topic - but I didn't take it there....

And you have been around long enough to know that I would miss an shooty in insult opportunity.

[St. Sid]

There is scope under the CIC regulation for executive board members to take a reasonable and regulated salary St Sid, and to be honest I would have no problem with that. A professional football club should be run by people who can do a professional job, this idea of directors not taking money from the club just means you land up with a bunch of amateurs doing the best they can whilst having to focus on earning money elsewhere.

If someone can boost the income of the club by £1m per annum what exactly would be wrong with paying him/or her a £100,000 salary?

I agree with you when it comes to gifts and brown paper bags but that's only because the CIC should be completely tranparent

Nonsense lawstud. Board members do not bring in extra funds in the way you think. They should not be paid at all and not even expenses; however the BoD could allocate funds from its budget to hire a professional executive on a full time basis, who would then have a number ot hit or they get sacked. Paying Board Members a salary would be a ridiculous move.

[TsuMirren]

Nonsense lawstud. Board members do not bring in extra funds in the way you think. They should not be paid at all and not even expenses; however the BoD could allocate funds from its budget to hire a professional executive on a full time basis, who would then have a number ot hit or they get sacked. Paying Board Members a salary would be a ridiculous move.

We hired an executive at Ebbsfleet United and from there he proclaimed he wasn't there to take any sort of guidance or direction from the membership and took many decisions by himself.

[St. Sid]

We hired an executive at Ebbsfleet United and from there he proclaimed he wasn't there to take any sort of guidance or direction from the membership and took many decisions by himself.

That's what Execs are for though. I don't think an exec should be entertained for at least the first year and probably longer until the CIC model finds its feet. My preference would be for no exec at all. I guess that could be another discussion for the constitution - do we want to allow for a future paid exec or do we want to rule that out throught the constitution.

[TsuMirren]

That's what Execs are for though. I don't think an exec should be entertained for at least the first year and probably longer until the CIC model finds its feet. My preference would be for no exec at all. I guess that could be another discussion for the constitution - do we want to allow for a future paid exec or do we want to rule that out throught the constitution.

It's what an exec is for under a normal model, it needs a different style of working under a member owned model though.

[pozbaird]

CIC executive board, CIC elected members board, St Mirren FC Ltd board, and now we need a chief executive?

Fcuk sake. Someone give Neil Doncaster a call.

[Stuart Dickson]

We hired an executive at Ebbsfleet United and from there he proclaimed he wasn't there to take any sort of guidance or direction from the membership and took many decisions by himself.

I don't know the Ebbsfleet model well, but did they also have Corporate and Community members? If so how did they manage them?

I'm well aware that the image I have of how this will all work could be a million miles from reality but in this model those members are going to have a Memorandum of Understanding that outlines what both parties expect to get from the partnership. Someone is going to have to monitor that to make sure that everyones expectations are being met. I also suspect the role would be much more than that. This person is going to have to be contactable at least 12 hours a day seven days per week. I'd envisage them having to attend the various committee meetings of the Community Members at least three times through the year. They are going to need to have a high level of expertise to deliver the kind of high value assistance that those Community Members will need. And I would imagine that somewhere in there they would also need to find the time to make sure that new Corporate and Community Members are being found all the time, to both grow the CIC and also to replace existing members who won't go beyond the first or second year because they've already got what they wanted from it and there's little prospect of them getting more.

The way I initially thought this would all work was on a football centric model. Now I've heard the actual proposals I've described what I thought as the equivelent of the market stall whilst 10000 hours wanted to build a chain of supermarkets, but even at the level of the model I envisaged there would have to be a high level of co-ordination to ensure that St Mirren got the most data possible out of the set up.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Stuart Dickson

[St. Sid]

I don't know the Ebbsfleet model well, but did they also have Corporate and Community members? If so how did they manage them?

I'm well aware that the image I have of how this will all work could be a million miles from reality but in this model those members are going to have a Memorandum of Understanding that outlines what both parties expect to get from the partnership. Someone is going to have to monitor that to make sure that everyones expectations are being met. I also suspect the role would be much more than that. This person is going to have to be contactable at least 12 hours a day seven days per week. I'd envisage them having to attend the various committee meetings of the Community Members at least three times through the year. They are going to need to have a high level of expertise to deliver the kind of high value assistance that those Community Members will need. And I would imagine that somewhere in there they would also need to find the time to make sure that new Corporate and Community Members are being found all the time, to both grow the CIC and also to replace existing members who won't go beyond the first or second year because they've already got what they wanted from it and there's little prospect of them getting more.

The way I initially thought this would all work was on a football centric model. Now I've heard the actual proposals I've described what I thought as the equivelent of the market stall whilst 10000 hours wanted to build a chain of supermarkets, but even at the level of the model I envisaged there would have to be a high level of co-ordination to ensure that St Mirren got the most data possible out of the set up.

The structure already manages this lawfud - sorry for the name regression, but your pomposity commands it. Have you actually read the documents available or have you just decided to turn it into a world according to lawfud scenario again.

[Stuart Dickson]

The structure already manages this lawfud - sorry for the name regression, but your pomposity commands it. Have you actually read the documents available or have you just decided to turn it into a world according to lawfud scenario again.

Ive been through all the documents and I can't see it. All I can see is some elected amateur representatives that come from the Corporate and Community side. Indeed you've already said you want to squeeze their numbers to accommodate more representation for individual members.

I'll be mightily impressed if St Mirren could find someone willing to put in the kind of work and effort, that will see you trying to fulfil an open ended promise that is only limited by the proviso that it has to be mutually benififivial, on an amateur basis.

[Drew]

I agree with you when it comes to gifts and brown paper bags but that's only because the CIC should be completely tranparent

Do you mean transparent bags like the ones they sell at the airport for the muppets who forget the rules and try to bring their shampoo in their hand luggage?

Excellent idea! We could charge £2 per bag, and at least the club would benefit from the backhanders, sweeteners, bribes, and blackmail scams. Sorted!

[Stuart Dickson]

Do you mean transparent bags like the ones they sell at the airport for the muppets who forget the rules and try to bring their shampoo in their hand luggage?

Excellent idea! We could charge £2 per bag, and at least the club would benefit from the backhanders, sweeteners, bribes, and blackmail scams. Sorted!

[TsuMirren]

I don't know the Ebbsfleet model well, but did they also have Corporate and Community members? If so how did they manage them?

No corporate or community, but there were the other 25% who had a rep on the board and potential veto for absolutely everything.

An important aspect of all of this will be to go through the minutes, see what was voted on for the past 12 months and then decide exactly what members should vote on. Not sure if we can request certain matches as part of the fixture scheduling process, but stuff like that should be on the list.

[St. Sid]

Ive been through all the documents and I can't see it. All I can see is some elected amateur representatives that come from the Corporate and Community side. Indeed you've already said you want to squeeze their numbers to accommodate more representation for individual members.

I'll be mightily impressed if St Mirren could find someone willing to put in the kind of work and effort, that will see you trying to fulfil an open ended promise that is only limited by the proviso that it has to be mutually benififivial, on an amateur basis.

Chairman of the members Board comes from the CIC Exec.

[St. Sid]

How about the voting on proposals by the member BoD. Will it be a simple majority with the Chair having the casting vote or should there be a staggered system depending on the type of proposal with varying degrees of majority required to carry through change.

[reborn saint]

How about the voting on proposals by the member BoD. Will it be a simple majority with the Chair having the casting vote or should there be a staggered system depending on the type of proposal with varying degrees of majority required to carry through change.

there all good