Another Corporate Member Added

[Stu]

That's Accord out of the pledge closet. Also the pledgers meeting will be taking place next week. Apparently a significant number of pledgers are overseas so it would be good if some form of Internet meeting to include them could be set up?

CIC Pledgers Meeting

Hardly breaking news - their logo has been on the website since day one.

[St. Sid]

Hardly breaking news - their logo has been on the website since day one.

The pledgers meeting is the news Stu. We are about 2 weeks away from taking ownership of the club.

[pozbaird]

The pledgers meeting is the news Stu. We are about 2 weeks away from taking ownership of the club.

... and the on-field events of the next two games will, in my humble opinion, have a great bearing on the immediate success of the CIC plan.... certainly from a prospective individual membership numbers POV. Not only could the CIC plan be affected by on-field events, but the very well-being of the club from the ground up will be affected. I'm an honest bloke - I don't lie. I'll say what's honestly on my mind - If the team manage to fcuk up SPL status from the position they were in, I would be sorely tempted to just scream 'Fcuk off the lot of you', and spend my time of a weekend on the golf course, or taking trips down to St James' Park. Almost tempting to start a new thread - 'What effect would the biggest St Mirren fcuk-up of all time, including Hammarby and the 2010 League Cup Final, have on your decision to remain enthusiastic about being part of the controlling interest in what would be the biggest bunch of shitebags since 1877'.

A bit of a wordy thread title mind you, so let's just let it lie Poz, and hope that we pull out a result in the next two games somebody beats Hamilton.

Edit: Serious question. IF we (please God no) manage to fcuk this up in the biggest scunner of all-time fashion - is that 52% controlling interest really still worth 2 million quid?

Edited May 7, 2011 by pozbaird

[St. Sid]

... and the on-field events of the next two games will, in my humble opinion, have a great bearing on the immediate success of the CIC plan.... certainly from a prospective individual membership numbers POV. Not only could the CIC plan be affected by on-field events, but the very well-being of the club from the ground up will be affected. I'm an honest bloke - I don't lie. I'll say what's honestly on my mind - If the team manage to fcuk up SPL status from the position they were in, I would be sorely tempted to just scream 'Fcuk off the lot of you', and spend my time of a weekend on the golf course, or taking trips down to St James' Park. Almost tempting to start a new thread - 'What effect would the biggest St Mirren fcuk-up of all time, including Hammarby and the 2010 League Cup Final, have on your decision to remain enthusiastic about being part of the controlling interest in what would be the biggest bunch of shitebags since 1877'.

A bit of a wordy thread title mind you, so let's just let it lie Poz, and hope that we pull out a result in the next two games somebody beats Hamilton.

Edit: Serious question. IF we (please God no) manage to fcuk this up in the biggest scunner of all-time fashion - is that 52% controlling interest really still worth 2 million quid?

Have a beer and an active browse through the wid ye thread and it'll put it all back into perspective.

[pozbaird]

Have a beer and an active browse through the wid ye thread and it'll put it all back into perspective.

Fair enough Sid, I may be suffering from immediate post-ICT traumatic stress disorder - but two serious questions remain. What would a monumental collapse into Div 1 in such an awful manner have on the CIC deal and indeed the club, and also - should the unthinkable happen, should the asking price of Mr Gilmour's consortium remain at 2 million quid?

[Guthro]

..... two serious questions remain. What would a monumental collapse into Div 1 in such an awful manner have on the CIC deal and indeed the club, and also - should the unthinkable happen, should the asking price of Mr Gilmour's consortium remain at 2 million quid?

Both valid questions, but i really don't want to think about them just now.

And i really hope (and pray) that next Saturday night we don't have to think about them at all, as we sit enjoying being an SPL team again.... Please? Pretty please? God? Buddha? Anyone?

[St. Sid]

Fair enough Sid, I may be suffering from immediate post-ICT traumatic stress disorder - but two serious questions remain. What would a monumental collapse into Div 1 in such an awful manner have on the CIC deal and indeed the club, and also - should the unthinkable happen, should the asking price of Mr Gilmour's consortium remain at 2 million quid?

Your emotional turmoil is clear from terms like "monumental collapse", "awful manner", etc.

I think we need to keep the CIC plans and the current performance of the team completely separate. The CIC has absolutely no influence on on-field matters at the moment and if you think about it, a realistic fruition for on field financial improvement would be a year into the CIC.

I am not sure where you think the threat would actually be. SMiSA probably had its highest membership when the club was toiling under John Coughlin and then Gus's very average start (from memory - SMiSA can confirm). Once the immediate threat from the bank was alleviated the membership started to drop off as people felt the purpose of SMiSA to save the club from that threat had been acheived. Any threat coming from 1st division would see the CIC general membership boom in my opinion.

The community membership would not be affected as their interest is not in on field matters. The corporate members would still be getting access to the St Mirren following plus the additional community membership following, and each other.

That being said we are not going to get relegated. However, we might well next season - everyone is already aware of that and it has been factored into the SMFC business plan. The CIC business plan would be unaffected.

The £2M is a stick in everyone's craw. I prefer to view it as a funding target rather than the price of the club making it slightly easier to swallow. If you think about it from that perspective you might just get a revelationary insight.

We should keep an eye on how scenarios would be managed differently if we were a CIC. Would Gus have lasted as long he did under the CIC model - perhaps...would he have been on such a high salary - doubt it? Would we have hired DL without looking at all the options.....definitely not.

Currently a St Mirren supporter survives mainly on blind faith and on scraps of rumour. The CIC model will change that. We will have a comprehensive understanding of all the decision made by the club, and we will be directly involved in making them.

Seriously Poz.....yank the heid right aff it and you'll feel much better.....but don't make a habit of it or you'll end up like lawfud.

[pozbaird]

Sid, one of the criticisms levelled at pro-CIC forum users is that we don't ask enough of the tough questions. I still feel it is perfectly valid to ask what effect any possible collapse into ginger bottle land would have on pledges actually being turned into direct debits, and also what effect an on-field capitulation would have on the 2 million asking price.

All I'm doing is asking the question.

Edited May 7, 2011 by pozbaird

[div]

The sale is already agreed. Relegation wouldn't make any difference to the price being paid as far as I am aware.

The CIC individual membership is based on fans who care deeply about the club.

Relegation wouldn't/shouldn't make any difference to them either.

Look, going down would be a f**king disaster for this football club, there is no denying that, but if it happens we will come back. Same as we have done previously, same as ICT did, same as Dunfermline have now done.

It won't happen but if it did it's not all toys out the pram, we just roll our sleeves up and get on with it.

[pozbaird]

Sorry Div,

I think if relegation should befall us, the circumstances in which it would have come about WILL impact on the CIC scheme. Richard Atkinson is doing a good job of creating a bit of a buzz and a feelgood factor around the whole concept. I find it hard to believe that the scheme is in a bubble, and is immune to any possible on-field collapse.

[St. Sid]

Sid, one of the criticisms levelled at pro-CIC forum users is that we don't ask enough of the tough questions. I still feel it is perfectly valid to ask what effect any possible collapse into ginger bottle land would have on pledges actually being turned into direct debits, and also what effect an on-field capitulation would have on the 2 million asking price.

All I'm doing is asking the question.

And all I am doing is answering it.

The question has been asked and answered at all the public meetings too. I am guessing that those pledging are pretty passionate supporters. I also don't believe for a minute that you won't be at the pledgers meeting signing up for the direct debit. We are all bealing tonight. You've put a lot into the club of late and I am sure everyone else like me greatly appreciates your efforts - the result today is a separate issue.

- log off and get the joy boy jazz mags out buddie.

[spirit of 77]

Sorry Div,

I think if relegation should befall us, the circumstances in which it would have come about WILL impact on the CIC scheme. Richard Atkinson is doing a good job of creating a bit of a buzz and a feelgood factor around the whole concept. I find it hard to believe that the scheme is in a bubble, and is immune to any possible on-field collapse.

i have a different fear, if we ever slip into relegation as a CIC-owned club then i fear we will never re-surface. Downhill all the way to oblivion.

[pozbaird]

Aye,

I'll still join up - so I can get my vote, and vote to sack everyone and their granny. In relation to your jizz mag advice Sid - sounds like a plan. Why not try to enjoy the rest of the evening!? Now, where IS that 'Hello' magazine with Pippa Middleton's photies...

Edited May 7, 2011 by pozbaird

[St. Sid]

i have a different fear, if we ever slip into relegation as a CIC-owned club then i fear we will never re-surface. Downhill all the way to oblivion.

I believe it to be the opposite. If we go down as a non-CIC club we will have only one option.....slash the wage bill to meet the reduced income. With the off field income that the CIC model brings with it we will be better funded to protect us from a fate like f'k'rk.

[spirit of 77]

I believe it to be the opposite. If we go down as a non-CIC club we will have only one option.....slash the wage bill to meet the reduced income. With the off field income that the CIC model brings with it we will be better funded to protect us from a fate like f'k'rk.

Dont give me that pish about off-field income. Any extra, which will be 20% max, will be funnelled into paying the debt off or diverted to community projects

[pozbaird]

The CIC individual membership is based on fans who care deeply about the club.

Relegation wouldn't/shouldn't make any difference to them either.

Div,

Copy / paste below from a guy who posted this on the feeshal' website forum.

I think it illustrates my thoughts about any possible relegation collapse and how individuals might subsequently view paying £10 p.m. to join the CIC.

If RA isn't worried about an on-field collapse, he should be.

Thats me just home. We got the train from Kilwinning to Paisley and then got the supporters bus up. My wife, Father and Brother all came along to watch a team that have no fight in them. We spent a lot of money going today and sacrificed my time and money to watch a team that didnt seem to give a monkeys.

If Danny Lennon would get his hands out his pockets and jump up and down shouting at our players I might have a bit more respect for him, but if he cant be fired up for a game, how can he fire up the players.

WE have no leaders on the park, we didnt even have a team on the park, all we had were individual players that dont seem to know that we have to score goals to win a game.

As far as Im concerned they can stick their pledges.

[div]

Div,

Copy / paste below from a guy who posted this on the feeshal' website forum.

I think it illustrates my thoughts about any possible relegation collapse and how individuals might subsequently view paying £10 p.m. to join the CIC.

If RA isn't worried about an on-field collapse, he should be.

Thats me just home. We got the train from Kilwinning to Paisley and then got the supporters bus up. My wife, Father and Brother all came along to watch a team that have no fight in them. We spent a lot of money going today and sacrificed my time and money to watch a team that didnt seem to give a monkeys.

If Danny Lennon would get his hands out his pockets and jump up and down shouting at our players I might have a bit more respect for him, but if he cant be fired up for a game, how can he fire up the players.

WE have no leaders on the park, we didnt even have a team on the park, all we had were individual players that dont seem to know that we have to score goals to win a game.

As far as Im concerned they can stick their pledges.

Sorry, still don't see what this has to do with ownership of the club.

We had a bad result on Monday, we had a poor result today and it sounds like a bad performance.

Everyone is hurting from that and obviously arses are beginning to twitch.

However we are St.Mirren supporters and you don't stop being a St.Mirren supporter just because you get relegated.

If the fans were to turn their back on owning the club because of relegation then we'd all be as well packing it in as we WILL be relegated again at some point.

[pozbaird]

Sorry, still don't see what this has to do with ownership of the club.

I don't understand why you can't see the possibility of a relegation collapse pissing people off to the extent that they adopt a 'Fcuk it and fcuk £10 a month' attitude. I honestly cannot fathom why you seem reluctant to accept the danger of it happening. I'm not suggesting all 590 or so pledges will disappear into the night.

Edited May 8, 2011 by pozbaird

[ck1]

The sale is already agreed. Relegation wouldn't make any difference to the price being paid as far as I am aware.

The CIC individual membership is based on fans who care deeply about the club.

Relegation wouldn't/shouldn't make any difference to them either.

Look, going down would be a f**king disaster for this football club, there is no denying that, but if it happens we will come back. Same as we have done previously, same as ICT did, same as Dunfermline have now done.

It won't happen but if it did it's not all toys out the pram, we just roll our sleeves up and get on with it.

So if you don't pledge your cash you don't care deeply about the club.........so it's the have's and have nots now !!

[Drew]

I don't understand why you can't see the possibility of a relegation collapse pissing people off to the extent that they adopt a 'Fcuk it and fcuk £10 a month' attitude. I honestly cannot fathom why you seem reluctant to accept the danger of it happening. I'm not suggesting all 590 or so pledges will disappear into the night.

Apathy might be the biggest danger.

I've not been that caught up in the whole CIC thing to any great extent, and I haven't pledged for a number of reasons. That's not to say I've no intention of joining up, though it has always been unlikely.

If we take the drop, I'll be so scunnered with football altogether, that I imagine it will be very difficult to muster any enthusiasm whatsoever for the CIC or anything else associated with the club - at least in the short-term. I suspect others might feel the same.

The cup final debacle nearly drained me of all interest, so the prospect of an even more ignominious reverse is likely to pull the plug altogether.

Edited May 7, 2011 by Drew

[div]

So if you don't pledge your cash you don't care deeply about the club.........so it's the have's and have nots now !!

All I said was that those who are pledging care deeply about the club. I didn't say at any point that this feeling was exclusive to them.

Taking your logic, are you saying those pledging to join the CIC DON'T care about the club ?

Some St.Mirren fans could start an argument in an empty room.

[div]

I don't understand why you can't see the possibility of a relegation collapse pissing people off to the extent that they adopt a 'Fcuk it and fcuk £10 a month' attitude. I honestly cannot fathom why you seem reluctant to accept the danger of it happening. I'm not suggesting all 590 or so pledges will disappear into the night.

What I am saying is that if people walk away from the possibility of owning the club just because we get relegated, then the CIC model will never work longer term.

We have been relegated from the top flight twice in my lifetime as a Saints fan.

It will happen again at some point. The fans didn't walk away then, why would they walk away now ?

It's your club for life, not just when it suits. You know that as well as I do.

[civilsaint]

However we are St.Mirren supporters and you don't stop being a St.Mirren supporter just because you get relegated.

If the fans were to turn their back on owning the club because of relegation then we'd all be as well packing it in as we WILL be relegated again at some point.

But it is possible to be a passive St Mirren supporter.

I can safely say that if St Mirren were to be relegated I would not renew my season ticket, never mind spend an additional £120.

Why? Because I've got many other interests in life which matter just as much, if not more than SMFC. I don't blindly spend money on things that aren't really that important to me.

Does that make me less of a St Mirren supporter? You decide, but I don't really care what conclusion you reach.

The implementation of the CIC is heavily based on a feel good factor and positivity to attract members to sign up. At the end of the day it is a sales pitch. Anyone who doesn't believe this is seriously deluded.

Edited May 7, 2011 by civilsaint

[div]

But it is possible to be a passive St Mirren supporter.

I can safely say that if St Mirren were to be relegated I would not renew my season ticket, never mind spend an additional £120.

Why? Because I've got many other interests in life which matter just as much, if not more than SMFC. I don't blindly spend money on things that aren't really that important to me.

Does that make me less of a St Mirren supporter? You decide, but I don't really care what conclusion you reach.

The implementation of the CIC is heavily based on a feel good factor and positivity to attract members to sign up. At the end of the day it is a sales pitch. Anyone who doesn't believe this is seriously deluded.

Fair enough. We all make life choices.

If we get relegated and every supporter took the same view as the above however there would be no need for a CIC anyway, as there would be no club for it to own.

[civilsaint]

Fair enough. We all make life choices.

If we get relegated and every supporter took the same view as the above however there would be no need for a CIC anyway, as there would be no club for it to own.

Indeed, and that is why football clubs need to do more to persuade people that their product is better than Xscape / rugby / basketball / skiing / go ape..... I'm not convinced. But for what it's worth, I see very motivated individuals, such as RA, in the CIC who are trying to do this. I suppose it's a chicken and egg situation. It doesn't help when significant sections of the support have a stereotype of the ideal St Mirren fan and don't easily accept or respect those who don't conform. There's a lot of work still to be done.