Richie P Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) I thought i would start a little debate based on two threads started today. 1st thread being the PDE's story about the handover to the CIC looking closer and the 2nd thread being that of Darren McGregors Future. As it looks like the CIC deal is nearing completion, how do you feel the fans new voice would work with a hypothetical bid of 250 k from the H*ns this summer for D McG? Is this the kind of decisions we (the elected members) would be involved in ? Would we get to hear the managers thoughts, i.e. the money lined up could fund A,B,C or D replacement. What would you as a fan say to the bid ? This may give a little insight into what others expect as members and also how difficult the process could be as i am sure that there will be many diiffering views from take the money and run, to F**K them 2Million quid or nothing !! Edited June 13, 2011 by Richie P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Probably be down to RA to make this sort of decision while the fans decide what size of flat screen tv's go above the urinals...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 I thought i would start a little debate based on two threads started today. 1st thread being the PDE's story about the handover to the CIC looking closer and the 2nd thread being that of Darren McGregors Future. As it looks like the CIC deal is nearing completion, how do you feel the fans new voice would work with a hypothetical bid of 250 k from the H*ns this summer for D McG? Is this the kind of decisions we (the elected members) would be involved in ? Would we get to hear the managers thoughts, i.e. the money lined up could fund A,B,C or D replacement. What would you as a fan say to the bid ? This may give a little insight into what others expect as members and also how difficult the process could be as i am sure that there will be many diiffering views from take the money and run, to F**K them 2Million quid or nothing !! Honestly - god I hope not. There's nothing more cringeworthy than the idea of a football club with it's underwear on the washing line for everyone to see. Even worse is the idea that you put transfer matters into the hands of people who quite frankly are too detached to know the character of a player, his effect on the team, his attitude, workrate, never mind his skills or what he brings to a team. In my time watching football I've looked on as St Mirren fans have turned gifted footballers like Frank McDougall, Iain Scanlon, Peter Weir, Paul Lambert, and Mark Yardley whilst they've cheered and applauded Colin Drew and Mark Crilly. The thought that those people would have a say in transfer matters would chill me to the bone. After all there's players and managers livelyhoods on the line here - it's not a game of Football Manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 I think this would be a footballing matter so would be handled exclusively by the football board and I guess their consultation with the manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) Anyone know how many people will be on the footballing board? How many spaces will be up for grabs in the election and how many will be hand picked? Serious question btw. Edited June 13, 2011 by davidg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Anyone know how many people will be on the footballing board? How many spaces will be up for grabs in the election and how many will be hand picked? Serious question btw. Hopefully fans get nowhere near the footballing board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E=Mc2 Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 I thought i would start a little debate based on two threads started today. 1st thread being the PDE's story about the handover to the CIC looking closer and the 2nd thread being that of Darren McGregors Future. As it looks like the CIC deal is nearing completion, how do you feel the fans new voice would work with a hypothetical bid of 250 k from the H*ns this summer for D McG? Is this the kind of decisions we (the elected members) would be involved in ? Would we get to hear the managers thoughts, i.e. the money lined up could fund A,B,C or D replacement. What would you as a fan say to the bid ? This may give a little insight into what others expect as members and also how difficult the process could be as i am sure that there will be many diiffering views from take the money and run, to F**K them 2Million quid or nothing !! I would say that £10 per month probably entitles you to no opinion. I give my daughter £10 per week by direct debit and I can assure you I have no influence on how's it's spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Anyone know how many people will be on the footballing board? How many spaces will be up for grabs in the election and how many will be hand picked? Serious question btw. Attached schematic shows how the organisation would be structured; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) Attached schematic shows how the organisation would be structured; Thanks for that Div Correct me if I'm wrong Div but isn't this set up in a way that the fans don't really have a say? With more than half the CIC Board being made up of Corporate, Community and RA do we run the risk of having the community interest coming before the interests of the FOOTBALL club? Edited June 14, 2011 by davidg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Attached schematic shows how the organisation would be structured; Hmm, flow charts whilst useful are always subject to review and spin...............good overview right enough......... Comments would be on % weight of governance over say as previous post says what influence is cast where precisely. If we have for instance a tier with significant weight where are the checks and balances that counter an undue sphere of influence Is there a picture that shows controls and constraints, or is that for the signed up ones eyes only so to speak ?? Maybe the club is morphing into a management style akin to say becoming like a golf club , run by a committee , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Thanks for that Div Correct me if I'm wrong Div but isn't this set up in a way that the fans don't really have a say? With more than half the CIC Board being made up of Corporate, Community and RA do we run the risk of having the community interest coming before the interests of the FOOTBALL club? I don't think you do; however the question was asked about increasing the number of general member representation on the SMFC board and the answer was yes if that is waht we decide we want. This is the sort of concern that makes it imortant to be part of the process. The constitution still has to be ratified and that is when we will get to debate and vote on issues such as the number of representatives on each BoD, etc. My concern is that dafties that are sulking about the CIC will miss having their opinion presented at what will be a critical time for the CIC. COnstitutions are great from a protection perspective; however they can also be very disabling for an organisation. It is important that we get it right. It is also important that we get EVERYONES opinion and not just those that have paid their tenner represented at the meeting. There are also some big assumptions being made about the corporate & community memebers not caring about the footballing side. I think that is a very daft perspective to take on this. Chances are that the majority from that side of the membership will also be Saints fans, and even those that are not will understand that a strong SMFC will be good for them too. Get your d.d. forms in now or you will have no right of complaint if the CIC does not turn out to be what you would like it to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Bud Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Probably be down to RA to make this sort of decision while the fans decide what size of flat screen tv's go above the urinals...... I would say 50 inch plasma tv's would be the minimum requirement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Thanks for that Div Correct me if I'm wrong Div but isn't this set up in a way that the fans don't really have a say? With more than half the CIC Board being made up of Corporate, Community and RA do we run the risk of having the community interest coming before the interests of the FOOTBALL club? David - I'm kind of surprised that I have to post this but the CIC is a Community Interest Company. 10,000hours SHOULD be more interested in the community than the football club, if it's not then it's not functioning properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 It's not for me then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 It's not for me then. Fair enough. I can't understand why there's a confusion about it though. The model is really straightforward. St Mirren FC Ltd will simply become one of the trading arms of the parent Community Interest Company. By paying £10 per month you are basically getting a say in the running of the parent company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Fair enough. I can't understand why there's a confusion about it though. The model is really straightforward. St Mirren FC Ltd will simply become one of the trading arms of the parent Community Interest Company. By paying £10 per month you are basically getting a say in the running of the parent company. This statement is 100% correct Stuart but for me dosn't realy answer the question David was asking. If myself and the other 735 plegers thought we were just supporting a project which will benifit the Paisley and Renfrewshire community without real benifits for the team we would not sign up. Every fan will have their own ideas about how much benifit the team will get but personaly i think it will exceed most expectations over the next 5 years. I am encouraged by the previous replies to the posed question as the last thing we need is a rabble getting involved in matters that are surley better dealt with by people with real experience in these things. There could be a future scenario though which REA has already stated we would be involved in. Results are poor and the cry is "Sack the manager" (we never learn!) The elected fans board could hold a meeting with cic members and carry forward what the majority want. This would have a bearing on the descision with the costs of any action clearly spelt out to some who think getting rid of our previous manager didn't have an impact on player buget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 It's not for me then. I wouldn't pay too much attention to Stu. You should know by now that he is prone to latching onto an idea personalising it and clinging onto to it until he is certifiable and having a good go at driving the rest of us nuts along with him. The whole idea of the CIC is to bring the club and the community closer together for our mutual benefit, not to prioritise one over the other. Better community links means a stronger, bigger and financially better off St Mirren. To think that the community is going to stitch up St Mirren is as mental as the alias Yul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 I wouldn't pay too much attention to Stu. You should know by now that he is prone to latching onto an idea personalising it and clinging onto to it until he is certifiable and having a good go at driving the rest of us nuts along with him. The whole idea of the CIC is to bring the club and the community closer together for our mutual benefit, not to prioritise one over the other. Better community links means a stronger, bigger and financially better off St Mirren. To think that the community is going to stitch up St Mirren is as mental as the alias Yul. Well yea....couldn't agree more...but i still think Stu has some good posts on here. You two obviously have major history......Anger managment classes are now available at New St Mirren Park under 10000hrs.org. Prices start from £50 per session and include a foot massage from Michelle and a 1/2 hour boxing workout for 2 (gloves extra). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Attached schematic shows how the organisation would be structured; Hmm nice and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) This statement is 100% correct Stuart but for me dosn't realy answer the question David was asking. If myself and the other 735 plegers thought we were just supporting a project which will benifit the Paisley and Renfrewshire community without real benifits for the team we would not sign up. Every fan will have their own ideas about how much benifit the team will get but personaly i think it will exceed most expectations over the next 5 years. I am encouraged by the previous replies to the posed question as the last thing we need is a rabble getting involved in matters that are surley better dealt with by people with real experience in these things. There could be a future scenario though which REA has already stated we would be involved in. Results are poor and the cry is "Sack the manager" (we never learn!) The elected fans board could hold a meeting with cic members and carry forward what the majority want. This would have a bearing on the descision with the costs of any action clearly spelt out to some who think getting rid of our previous manager didn't have an impact on player buget. RS, I'm not arguing with any of that. I certainly hope it will exceed all expectations over the next five years and I'm sure it can if those involved understand the potential of what they have got. I would imagine that your scenario regarding the sacking of a manager is plausible. The way I see it is that the St Mirren Ltd board would take the decision to fire the manager - if they could do it within the confines of their budget then that's fair enough. However if they can't they would need to meet with the elected CIC board to request an increase in their budget. But Davids question related to the balance of power on the boards and ultimately the fans not holding the majority vote. I don't see a problem with that. After all 700 members paying £10 per month each totals £84,000 per annum. If you've got 12 corporate members paying £10,000 per annum then they are putting in £120,000 per annum. Given that fact, and the fact that the community element is so important in the success of the whole project I think it's entirely right that community and corporate interests will come before those of the fans - although I don't see them necessarily being direct opposed. Edited June 14, 2011 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Well yea....couldn't agree more...but i still think Stu has some good posts on here. You two obviously have major history......Anger managment classes are now available at New St Mirren Park under 10000hrs.org. Prices start from £50 per session and include a foot massage from Michelle and a 1/2 hour boxing workout for 2 (gloves extra). Bizarrely enough we don't have any history other than some friendly banter over on P&B. If anything I am one of the more neutral posters when it comes to Stu. He also makes some good posts on P&B, but it is all tinged with bitterness and general madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Sid. Wisnae me Bud, I would have broken it into a paragraph or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Wisnae me Bud, I would have broken it into a paragraph or two. Sid is neutral.....Stuart gets mixed up with who he is replying to......I canna write on here.....only one statement is true....Sid is never neutral! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) Bizarrely enough we don't have any history other than some friendly banter over on P&B. If anything I am one of the more neutral posters when it comes to Stu. He also makes some good posts on P&B, but it is all tinged with bitterness and general madness. "Some good posts".....some....that's bollocks. All my posts are good, usually excellent and the daft c*nts on P&B hang on to my every word. There's nothing wrong with being mad, so long as you are right. Edited June 14, 2011 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 "Some good posts".....some....that's bollocks. All my posts are good, usually excellent and the daft c*nts on P&B hang on to my every word. There's nothing wrong with being mad, so long as you are right. New St Mirren Park will be holding counciling sessions for over inflated egos. The cost will be dependant on how inflated they are. As an example a slightly inflated ego will cost between £20 and £40. if you are called Stuart Dickson the cost will be £180. Please make cheques payable to 10000hrs.org as we wish to be debt free in 6 months with this venture alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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