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SMiSA agree to contribute £50k to 10000 Hours CIC with conditions


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Whether or not it folds it appears the money will be 'lost' to SMISA forever anyway. How do you know it will all be in one lump anyway if you admit to not knowing what the conditions are. Surely the only people who need to know these conditions are the members of SMISA. Is there something I'm missing?

A wee bit common sense ! Would you be happy to hand over lots of cash if this scheme did not involve your football club ?

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A wee bit common sense ! Would you be happy to hand over lots of cash if this scheme did not involve your football club ?

If I was part of an organisation and 91% of that organisation voted the same way on an issue I wouldn't insist I was the only person with a valid opinion.

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No one is disputing that SMISA don't have the best interests of the club at heart

I note not one of you have answered the following questions:-

What are the 'condidtions'. If you were handing over £50,000 to someone do you not want to know this ?

Will the money not simply go to Mr.Gilmour and Co. ?

If the CIC collapses in a year or two how will the £50,000 be paid back ?

How many shares in SMFC Ltd will the £50,000 buy ?

Answers please Sid and fellow CIC fans !

SMiSA do have the best interests of the club at heart, but more importantly they view the fans as being one of the most important elements of the club. They have been involved in the CIC proposal process from the off. You claimed that they have found out something that you failed to disclose that would see them withdrawing their support. Surely a more appropriate question would be for you to finally provide some specifics around your ad nauseum "concerns".

I do have some insight into SMiSA's conditions having attended one of their meeting with the CIC. There is no great show stopping revelations, there is no dramatic got you...just sensible and productive suggestions around the investment that will enhance the CIC and SMiSA's involvement. Your question is a belter, "If you are handing over £50,000 to someone do you not want to know this?" - It is between SMiSA and the CIC, if you are not a member of SMiSA then it has nothing to with you just as the details of the commercial CIC has nothing to do with you. I am not a member of SMiSA and I am guessing that you are not either. The only relevance here is that St Mirren's largest supporters group is supporting the CIC - the rest is their business. :)

Another daft question - "Will the money not simply go to Mr.Gilmour and Co. ?" - You contradict yourself in the posts you make following your initial breech. :lol: The money will be getting used to realise the majority of SMiSA's ambitions - the goals that they were set up to achieve. These guys have worked their bawz off to support the current BoD in getting the club to the position it is in today. They have done great things supporting and developing the community side of St Mirren too. The CIC will see that hard work taken to an entire new level.

"If the CIC collapses in a year or two how will the £50,000 be paid back ?" Again, that is between SMiSA and the CIC and whatever the arrangement is between the two parties. The negotiations have been going on for over a year. It is all speculative blah, blah again.....the CIC cannot fail - the only unlikely failing would be if the final funding does not get awarded. No money is being taken from any organisation until that funding is in place.

"How many shares in SMFC Ltd will the £50,000 buy ?" - It will go towards the 52% shareholding that is being bought by the CIC that will allow SMiSA to realise its ambitions as a fans organisation.

It is time to accept that the CIC and St Mirren are one and the same and start supporting your club. :)

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SMISA already hold shares in St Mirren.

What is your personal gripe with Richard Atkinson or your grievance with the consortium getting money for their shares?

I notice Animal/Yul has failed to answer you Mr Zo. He probably doesnt have a proper answer!

One of the huge positives about the cic is the democratic decision process (that Smisa also appear to have) that negates these lone "lunatic" voices.

As ive said before Smisa are a great organisation run by very decent and capable people. The fact that Smisa have shown support for the cic after undoubtedly doing research is a huge indicator that the cic WILL be very good for St Mirren fc.

Well done to Smisa, I am very interested to see what the conditions are (as a cic member) but as a non smisa member I don't deserve/need to know just yet.

As a member of the cic (when it all starts up) im genuinely pleased that Smisa will be on board.

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Well done to Smisa, I am very interested to see what the conditions are (as a cic member) but as a non smisa member I don't deserve/need to know just yet.

I would say as a CIC member you do deserve to know.

Will the conditions guarantee a SMISA member getting a seat on the SMFC board?

Edited by davidg
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I would say as a CIC member you do deserve to know.

I agree. The transparency is part of the appeal of the CIC for me. I'm not really sure how conditions can be agreed without being shared among members/future members?

I'm not suggesting it is anything sinister, I'm glad that SMiSA are supportive, just feel that the CIC is all about its members being fully participant and equal in the scheme.

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I would say as a CIC member you do deserve to know.

Will the conditions guarantee a SMISA member getting a seat on the SMFC board?

I hope so; I would be delighted with that. They should also get a place on the CIC Board.

There are no CIC members as yet as the CIC does not exist in relation to the offer made to the fans or anyone else. That is all dependent on the funding being finalised.

I also think the transparency can be overplayed. One of SMiSA's or any of the other funding partners "conditions" could be that their conditions are held under an NDA. This would restrict that information becoming available. The idea that every CIC member will have access to every aspect of every contract negotiated by the club / CIC is a tad naive. Happy to be wrong in this, but I would expect detail like that to the business of the elected BoD who will act on our behalf. The nature of elected members means that we will have more access to information than ever before; however commercial arrangements and contracts, etc will not be public viewing - that would be commercial suicide and I doubt funding / commercial partners would be up for that level of public access to their agreements. If SMiSA don't want to publish their "conditions" that is their business and the CIC has to respect that - and vice versa. :)

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SMISA already hold shares in St Mirren.

What is your personal gripe with Richard Atkinson or your grievance with the consortium getting money for their shares?

I have no personal 'gripe' with RA. I have met him several times but am not fooled by his smooth exterior. I have met several people like him in over forty years in business. What I see is a rich man (well that's what he keeps telling us) taking control of a football club without spending almost any of his own money. He hopes to complete this takeover by using a dangerous mixture of public money, loans, and money extracted from loyal supporters on a regular basis.

I have no 'grievance' with the consortium I just think SMISA have been led to believe their hard earned cash is 'going into the club' when in fact is going into the CIC (THE TWO THINGS ARE NOT THE SAME) and then passed to the consortium.

Hope that is clear enough.

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I hope so; I would be delighted with that. They should also get a place on the CIC Board.

There are no CIC members as yet as the CIC does not exist in relation to the offer made to the fans or anyone else. That is all dependent on the funding being finalised.

I also think the transparency can be overplayed. One of SMiSA's or any of the other funding partners "conditions" could be that their conditions are held under an NDA. This would restrict that information becoming available. The idea that every CIC member will have access to every aspect of every contract negotiated by the club / CIC is a tad naive. Happy to be wrong in this, but I would expect detail like that to the business of the elected BoD who will act on our behalf. The nature of elected members means that we will have more access to information than ever before; however commercial arrangements and contracts, etc will not be public viewing - that would be commercial suicide and I doubt funding / commercial partners would be up for that level of public access to their agreements. If SMiSA don't want to publish their "conditions" that is their business and the CIC has to respect that - and vice versa. :)

You say "I also think the transparency can be overplayed". There are already far too many unknown, secret bits to this deal.

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It is time to accept that the CIC and St Mirren are one and the same and start supporting your club. :)

The club and the CIC are not the same thing, I recognize that the CIC will take over the club but I still have the same reservations as before. I hope that I am wrong about the CIC but I have no interest in any of it's activities other than how they will affect SMFC and more particularly the first team.

The present delay in the completion of the deal is maybe not that significant in the long run but it makes me wonder if any of the other assumptions made by the CIC are also overly optimistic.

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I hope so; I would be delighted with that. They should also get a place on the CIC Board.

Why should they?

This would be moving the goalposts.

I would be quite happy if a SMISA member was elected onto both boards but all board members should be voted in by CIC members, well that's what RA said would happen...

Edited by davidg
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You say "I also think the transparency can be overplayed". There are already far too many unknown, secret bits to this deal.

Not every bit of business can be relayed onto a public internet forum as I am sure you will appreciate having 40 years of business experience.

You clearly aren't stupid. If you have met with Richard several times why didn't you ask him direct questions about your areas of concern during one of these meetings ?

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Why should they?

This would be moving the goalposts.

I would be quite happy if a SMISA member was elected onto both boards but all board members should be voted in by CIC members, well that's what RA said would happen...

Not really, what REA actually said was that the members would ratify the BoD member numbers as part of CIC constitution formation. If you remember someone asked at the public meeting if an additional general fans member could be added. This was agreed at the time so their is still plenty time for us to decide what we want.

It should also be remembered that the £50K could also just as easily be donated as a 5 year corporate membership that would deliver a lot more benefits for SMiSA members that could in fact see them elected to the BoD from that perspective. Or alternatively 100 years of community membership where they could agree their own MoU with the club. An MoU that would be an agreeement between them and the CIC, and one that could be protected by NDAs.

SMiSA like other funders are entitled to negotiate their own terms for their £50,000. Just as the CIC can decide to negotiate on the offer made to them. Ironic that one of the concerns being thrown around is inflexibility of the CIC model and yet at the first incling of change the CIC-knockers spit out their well worn dummies. :P

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What I don't understand is why SMiSA would choose to invest through the CiC route. How they spend their money is entirely their own affair but surely they would be better offering to buy up the shares of those amongst the 48% who feel their shares are going to become worthless. Here would have been a chance for those to recoup some of their investment whilst handing over to a group who care about the club. Doing that would surely have guaranteed them a place on the football board and it would have meant a return on investment if the CiC does fail and has to go back on the market.

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I would say as a CIC member you do deserve to know.

Will the conditions guarantee a SMISA member getting a seat on the SMFC board?

I agree David, indeed as a cic member we NEED to know. But we don't need to know what the "conditions" are at this early stage. After the cic people have agreed to the conditions and its going to be accepted then the cic membership should (and im sure will) ne told. But we don't need to know what conditions smisa have attached to the offer just yet, as it stands that for smisa members.

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I think he means, 'how many people are in SMiSA?'... At the last meeting I snuck into, I think they said it was something like 86...

I did mean that but I think I prefer Wilburs answer!!!

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