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Takeover to be completed next week


div
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That's just a bit of a silly statement to make to be honest isn't it !

Do you know Div, I think it's just symptomatic of the problem that 10000hours are going to face. Reborn Saint insists over and over again that he deals with these funding bodies and yet he kept on claiming that somehow the funding bodies were getting a fantastic deal here and that Richard Atkinson was in some way flawed for not trying to hold a gun to their head. Now he's claiming that if 10000hours conclude this deal suddenly St Mirren will be the third best team in the league. The worry for the CIC has to be that there are circa 800 other nutters out there who have signed up to part with £10 per month with the same ridiculous ideas and expectations.

I know I don't need to explain this to you Div, but for Reborns sake I think it's worth expressing. If/when this deal goes though what happens is that St Mirren FC will have new majority shareholders. Those majority shareholders have an innovative and interesting business model, one which I personally think is the future for many of our sports clubs at all levels in the coming years. There is potential in the business model for spin offs that will boost the income and earnings of the football club if those elected to the football club board are intelligent enough to understand the opportunity, however there is just as much potential that all St Mirren will see out of this is new owners who run the club in the same way that it's been run for the last 13 years - which isn't necessarily a bad thing but it's never going to see St Mirren achieve the kind of heights Reborn Saint is boldly predicting.

I hope the deal goes though - it would be nice if it was this week. I've outlined my ideas in detail for anyone to pick up or ignore so there's no need for me to offer any assistance other than to pay my tenner a month. I'll be watching with interest and for all I couldn't give a toss about St Mirren's results I will be cheering on the CIC the whole way and I'll be looking to learn as much as I can as the SFA and the local authority in NL are wanting to create something very similar in Wishaw.

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Do you know Div, I think it's just symptomatic of the problem that 10000hours are going to face. Reborn Saint insists over and over again that he deals with these funding bodies and yet he kept on claiming that somehow the funding bodies were getting a fantastic deal here and that Richard Atkinson was in some way flawed for not trying to hold a gun to their head. Now he's claiming that if 10000hours conclude this deal suddenly St Mirren will be the third best team in the league. The worry for the CIC has to be that there are circa 800 other nutters out there who have signed up to part with £10 per month with the same ridiculous ideas and expectations.

I know I don't need to explain this to you Div, but for Reborns sake I think it's worth expressing. If/when this deal goes though what happens is that St Mirren FC will have new majority shareholders. Those majority shareholders have an innovative and interesting business model, one which I personally think is the future for many of our sports clubs at all levels in the coming years. There is potential in the business model for spin offs that will boost the income and earnings of the football club if those elected to the football club board are intelligent enough to understand the opportunity, however there is just as much potential that all St Mirren will see out of this is new owners who run the club in the same way that it's been run for the last 13 years - which isn't necessarily a bad thing but it's never going to see St Mirren achieve the kind of heights Reborn Saint is boldly predicting.

I hope the deal goes though - it would be nice if it was this week. I've outlined my ideas in detail for anyone to pick up or ignore so there's no need for me to offer any assistance other than to pay my tenner a month. I'll be watching with interest and for all I couldn't give a toss about St Mirren's results I will be cheering on the CIC the whole way and I'll be looking to learn as much as I can as the SFA and the local authority in NL are wanting to create something very similar in Wishaw.

So you are cheering an organisation that, in the long run, will benefit an organisation that you clearly hate.

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The worry for the CIC has to be that there are circa 800 other nutters out there who have signed up to part with £10 per month with the same ridiculous ideas and expectations.

The only worry in this regard is that you constantly allude to the St Mirren support being 'nutters' or idiots who won't grasp the bigger picture of what the CIC/club partnership actually means.

Keep your sweeping generalisations to yourself please. Ta.

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Do you know Div, I think it's just symptomatic of the problem that 10000hours are going to face............but it's never going to see St Mirren achieve the kind of heights Reborn Saint is boldly predicting.

I can see why this would upset you. St Mirren fans being enthusiastic and positive about something the club is doing. You are clearly gutted. Thankfully St Mirren fans are made of stronger stuff than you and always take set backs in their stride.

The bottom line is that the CIC is creating positivity and enthusiasm for the running of the club. We have had years of negativity - I think it is great to see supporters backing this new positive era for the club after years in the doldrums. The communication of the reality of our situation was spot on then as we had to take action. SG and the BoD took action alright - well beyond any of our expectations. However, now is the time for positivity and excitement - and we have a lot to look forward to - as other clubs hit the shitter we have managed to avoid in some style. :)

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I can see why this would upset you. St Mirren fans being enthusiastic and positive about something the club is doing. You are clearly gutted. Thankfully St Mirren fans are made of stronger stuff than you and always take set backs in their stride.

The bottom line is that the CIC is creating positivity and enthusiasm for the running of the club. We have had years of negativity - I think it is great to see supporters backing this new positive era for the club after years in the doldrums. The communication of the reality of our situation was spot on then as we had to take action. SG and the BoD took action alright - well beyond any of our expectations. However, now is the time for positivity and excitement - and we have a lot to look forward to - as other clubs hit the shitter we have managed to avoid in some style. :)

Am I supposed to be upset? Far from it, I'd be delighted to see a senior Scottish Football club move into the Third Sector and be run for the benefit of the Community. All I am doing here is re-iterating what I see as a big problem for 10000hours. Fans like Reborn Saint simply cannot get their heads around this and I think it will mean that the enthusiasm and positivity will quickly drain away.

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Am I supposed to be upset? Far from it, I'd be delighted to see a senior Scottish Football club move into the Third Sector and be run for the benefit of the Community. All I am doing here is re-iterating what I see as a big problem for 10000hours. Fans like Reborn Saint simply cannot get their heads around this and I think it will mean that the enthusiasm and positivity will quickly drain away.

Positive excusary quickly followed by negative spin. You need to mix it up a bit Stu - far too obvious. :wink:

The club isn't moving into the third sector, it will be maintained in its current status of being a Ltd company. It would appear that it is you that can't get your head around "this". I can get away with treating everyone as if they are stoopit as I am a f'k'n genius. You don't have that luxury. :P

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Guest somner9

Am I supposed to be upset? Far from it, I'd be delighted to see a senior Scottish Football club move into the Third Sector and be run for the benefit of the Community. All I am doing here is re-iterating what I see as a big problem for 10000hours. Fans like Reborn Saint simply cannot get their heads around this and I think it will mean that the enthusiasm and positivity will quickly drain away.

Myself: as someone who sees the CiC as possibly the worst possible thing for SMFC to become embroiled in (Not CiC's or IPS's in general just this arse about face version) you'll perhaps understand my curiosity here.

Given that it's obviously not about SMFC for you, and that you are convinced that SMFC won't get your bigger picture and therfor you see the demise of 10000 hours CiC as inevitable.

I have to ask why are you part of it?

Are you pledging as an individual or community member just to be able to say "I told you so" when it all end up like five kinds of dog shee-it?

Just curious

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Myself: as someone who sees the CiC as possibly the worst possible thing for SMFC to become embroiled in (Not CiC's or IPS's in general just this arse about face version) you'll perhaps understand my curiosity here.

Given that it's obviously not about SMFC for you, and that you are convinced that SMFC won't get your bigger picture and therfor you see the demise of 10000 hours CiC as inevitable.

I have to ask why are you part of it?

Are you pledging as an individual or community member just to be able to say "I told you so" when it all end up like five kinds of dog shee-it?

Just curious

Ok Somner to answer your question first - I am an individual member because I strongly believe in Social Enterprise Networks as the most viable solution towards the sustainability of charities and not for profit organisations all over the country. I am not a Community Member although I did investigate the possibility of bringing Wishaw Wycombe Wanderers on board because I expect that there will be a strong financial and practical benefit for Community Members. The problem we had was with the takeover at the stage it was at it was absolutely impossible to create a list of benefits that could be presented to a committee and the committee's response, quite rightly, was that they would rather see another football club become the guinea pigs.

I chose to become a member of the 10000hours CIC rather than the one at Clyde for example simply because it was the most interesting and challenging proposition.

Now to address the rest of your post, I think 10000hours have made a good acquisition here. The football club is obviously worthless but they've bought a controlling stake in four underused buildings in Ferguslie Park and a training facility at Ralson, as well as a significant amount of land all of which can be used to generate revenue for the CIC. They also now have a working template which can be replicated over and over again right across the Central Belt in much less challenging circumstances. So rather than predicting the demise of 10000hours I am predicting that this is only the start for a SEN which is going to grow rapidly.

Where you and I probably do agree though is when we consider the benefit to St Mirren FC. I think the potential is enormous, but I think in reality the average Individual Member here will be too stupid to understand it and that a situation will very quickly develop where members think that the club is giving too much away to the Community Members without ever properly understanding just how important those Community Members are to any additional revenue St Mirren FC are likely to get from being a trading arm of the CIC.

If I was to put it in simple terms I think St Mirren's involvement in this will become something akin to your average local business who is quite happy to pay £500 to put sponsor a local juvenile football team every now and again, without ever looking at their marketing strategy to see how they can fully capitalise on their sponsorship.

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Guest somner9

Ok Somner to answer your question first - I am an individual member because I strongly believe in Social Enterprise Networks as the most viable solution towards the sustainability of charities and not for profit organisations all over the country. I am not a Community Member although I did investigate the possibility of bringing Wishaw Wycombe Wanderers on board because I expect that there will be a strong financial and practical benefit for Community Members. The problem we had was with the takeover at the stage it was at it was absolutely impossible to create a list of benefits that could be presented to a committee and the committee's response, quite rightly, was that they would rather see another football club become the guinea pigs.

I chose to become a member of the 10000hours CIC rather than the one at Clyde for example simply because it was the most interesting and challenging proposition.

Now to address the rest of your post, I think 10000hours have made a good acquisition here. The football club is obviously worthless but they've bought a controlling stake in four underused buildings in Ferguslie Park and a training facility at Ralson, as well as a significant amount of land all of which can be used to generate revenue for the CIC. They also now have a working template which can be replicated over and over again right across the Central Belt in much less challenging circumstances. So rather than predicting the demise of 10000hours I am predicting that this is only the start for a SEN which is going to grow rapidly.

Where you and I probably do agree though is when we consider the benefit to St Mirren FC. I think the potential is enormous, but I think in reality the average Individual Member here will be too stupid to understand it and that a situation will very quickly develop where members think that the club is giving too much away to the Community Members without ever properly understanding just how important those Community Members are to any additional revenue St Mirren FC are likely to get from being a trading arm of the CIC.

If I was to put it in simple terms I think St Mirren's involvement in this will become something akin to your average local business who is quite happy to pay £500 to put sponsor a local juvenile football team every now and again, without ever looking at their marketing strategy to see how they can fully capitalise on their sponsorship.

The first bit of your post I just had to highlight does this mean it's a done deal?

The second bit I highlighted, be that as it may, I would never say it like that continuously. For my part I think 10000 hours have done a woeful job from the inception till now. As you point out the way they have gone about it means any potential member is asked to pony up the dough before they have a clear business plan in front of them detailing what they can be guaranteed.

It's a unique business tactic, not a successful one though! As you can imagine if your wee club stumped up £500 and then had to go through the proposed long drawn out process of constitutions, board elections (X3) before they even get near realising what they might get for their £500, to then find year one is ending and it's time to stump up for year two. Without getting a reasonable benefit in year one, then an exodus at year one end is highly likely.

As RA has always maintained this is a social experiment, if it doesn't go so well with SMFC then no loss, he can try again elsewhere. :o

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I think the potential is enormous, but I think in reality the average Individual Member here will be too stupid to understand it and that a situation will very quickly develop where members think that the club is giving too much away to the Community Members without ever properly understanding just how important those Community Members are to any additional revenue St Mirren FC are likely to get from being a trading arm of the CIC.

By my rough reckoning, that's the 135th post you've made that pretty much says the same 'St Mirren fans buying into this are dumbfcuk idiots who can't or won't be able to understand it'. Maybe the order of the words changes a wee bit, but the message remains the same.

I dare you to go the whole month of September without repeating this assertion in any of your posts.

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The first bit of your post I just had to highlight does this mean it's a done deal?

The second bit I highlighted, be that as it may, I would never say it like that continuously. For my part I think 10000 hours have done a woeful job from the inception till now. As you point out the way they have gone about it means any potential member is asked to pony up the dough before they have a clear business plan in front of them detailing what they can be guaranteed.

It's a unique business tactic, not a successful one though! As you can imagine if your wee club stumped up £500 and then had to go through the proposed long drawn out process of constitutions, board elections (X3) before they even get near realising what they might get for their £500, to then find year one is ending and it's time to stump up for year two. Without getting a reasonable benefit in year one, then an exodus at year one end is highly likely.

As RA has always maintained this is a social experiment, if it doesn't go so well with SMFC then no loss, he can try again elsewhere. :o

Somner, I've got no more information than you. I've no idea if it's a done deal but I hope it will be soon.

As for the second bit - it's not that unique. I don't know what age you are but if you are as old as me you'll remember how in the early 80's many computer software developers sold their products which were barely in development at Trade Fairs on the back of some mocked up screen shots as it was the only way they could raise the finance to produce their products. I think this is very similar to that. At the moment there are a lot of people who have signed up as Individual Members on the back of some "screen shots". They, like me, like the noises but none of us really knows what benefits our membership will bring other than there's supposed to be some sort of bar.

I agree with you completely about the frustration over the Community Member side. No doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I think similar to Individual Members they won't part with their £500 until the deal is done but all the same yes I found it incredibly frustrating that 10000hours were looking to sign up members but weren't in a position to offer benefits and I'm sure it will be frustrating for those that have signed up who will have to wait months after any takeover before they start to see any return.

As for the last part, well yes you are probably right. St Mirren FC will just be a trading arm of the CIC and at the SEN conference I heard at least one example of how an SEN can set up several trading arms so that if it makes a loss it can be cast aside without bringing down the CIC itself. I suppose there is a possibility that this could happen to SMFC but I would suggest that 10000hours would find it very difficult to regain the kind of credibility required to get funding for their next project if that were to happen.

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By my rough reckoning, that's the 135th post you've made that pretty much says the same 'St Mirren fans buying into this are dumbfcuk idiots who can't or won't be able to understand it'. Maybe the order of the words changes a wee bit, but the message remains the same.

I dare you to go the whole month of September without repeating this assertion in any of your posts.

Why would I do that Poz? The fact is I think there is a real danger to the potential of the CIC caused by daft St Mirren fans who are being afforded a vote in the running of the CIC. I want to see 10000hours succeed and I'd be delighted if St Mirren could play their part by realising the potential of what they've got, using their assets to grow membership whilst maintaining an eye on targeting these resources into markets that will maximise the potential return.

I've already said that I believe that part of this should be to court, strongly, Quality Marked Juvenile Football clubs from all across the Central Belt. The joint benefits from just that one small area could be enormous but it may require the club giving away corporate hospitality tickets, or offering up use of Ralston for events and matches. The question is are the St Mirren fans smart enough to realise that by giving up a little bit of revenue, or a little bit of access time to their own pitch, that the returns could be much more valuable than what they have gifted away.

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Community Members all have MoUs tailored to their specific requirements lawfud. You really don't have a clue. :rolleyes:

I know they have an MoU tailed to their specific requirements....if you can get that far. For us everything we asked for was "possible" but it would have to wait until after the boards were elected before being agreed.

I guess you haven't tried to go through the MoU process Sid... :rolleyes:

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I know they have an MoU tailed to their specific requirements....if you can get that far. For us everything we asked for was "possible" but it would have to wait until after the boards were elected before being agreed.

I guess you haven't tried to go through the MoU process Sid... :rolleyes:

I have actually, from the CIC end. You were just being let down gently. We have taken on board your model and sold it to two local clubs.....deja vu lawfud...me and SG had a right good laugh about it. :P

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I have actually, from the CIC end. You were just being let down gently. We have taken on board your model and sold it to two local clubs.....deja vu lawfud...me and SG had a right good laugh about it. :P

:rolleyes:

Anyway, just to clarify here. Are you claiming, in your role as "10000hours President" that 10000hours didn't want to work with our football team and that the new CIC's way of working will be to take ideas from potential Community and Corporate members and sell them on? :rolleyes:

Edited by Stuart Dickson
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The worry for the CIC has to be that there are circa 800 other nutters out there who have signed up to part with £10 per month with the same ridiculous ideas and expectations.

I take it you are the only non-nutter who has signed up to the CIC? We'll be glad to have you on board to stop all the St Mirren fans you identify as the weak link in the CIC making the project fail.

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The football club is obviously worthless but they've bought a controlling stake in four underused buildings in Ferguslie Park and a training facility at Ralson, as well as a significant amount of land all of which can be used to generate revenue for the CIC.

The training facility at Ralston cannot be used for any purpose other than St. Mirren's training and youth development. The CIC can't use it to generate revenue.

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