ktf Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 .Maybe if you could pay your season ticket by DD in monthly installments we'd have lots more season ticket holders? You can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 It isn't controversial at all. In fact SMiSA have already implemented a lower cost membership for the purposes of inclusion. For something that is supposed to be about community then all of the St Mirren community should have the opportunity to get involved, not just those that can afford to. And SMISA were a huge success....weren't they? Sid I don't want to get involved in a debate about SMISA. The fact is you talk about not wanting to split the support but you'd be doing exactly that if you had some members paying and some getting equal benefits without contributing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted September 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 And SMISA were a huge success....weren't they? Sid I don't want to get involved in a debate about SMISA. The fact is you talk about not wanting to split the support but you'd be doing exactly that if you had some members paying and some getting equal benefits without contributing at all. There is no debate about SMiSA; however there is a proven example of a St Mirren fans membership that has differing levels of cost. Not only that - we also have different levels of cost for season tickets. We also have a full stand dedicated to allowing families watch football at a discounted rate. They still get to see the football, they have access to the pie stalls, etc. We have managed to do that for a number of years without splitting the support - although the tie wearing w@nk / sausage roll thief fraternity do like to think of themselves as being better supporters than the rest of us. In fact the CIC is probably the first example of an elite support beyond that of the boardroom carve ups of the 80's. If we are to be a community club, then there must be an opportunity for all supporters to become members of the CIC irrespective of their financial capability. Pretty sure that when SMiSA put their plans to offer discounted memebrship it was welcomed by their existing membership. Only an elitist fanny would disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisleybud1877 Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 They have already set the monthly fee as low as possible to appeal to the majority without suggesting that it should be lower still for people claiming they cant afford it. how exactly is it going to be managed anyway? will low income families be expected to submit their acccounts to 10000 hours to prove they cant afford it but will have no problems coughing up £15 for the first round of drinks in a 'membership' bar they cant afford to join. I consider myself to be on lower than average wages so perhaps i should cancel my direct debit and wait for stsid to get me a free or reduced membership. Incidently, can anyone confirm if the direct debit details is showing up on their bank accounts yet? No one seems to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 There is no debate about SMiSA; however there is a proven example of a St Mirren fans membership that has differing levels of cost. Not only that - we also have different levels of cost for season tickets. We also have a full stand dedicated to allowing families watch football at a discounted rate. They still get to see the football, they have access to the pie stalls, etc. We have managed to do that for a number of years without splitting the support - although the tie wearing w@nk / sausage roll thief fraternity do like to think of themselves as being better supporters than the rest of us. In fact the CIC is probably the first example of an elite support beyond that of the boardroom carve ups of the 80's. If we are to be a community club, then there must be an opportunity for all supporters to become members of the CIC irrespective of their financial capability. Pretty sure that when SMiSA put their plans to offer discounted memebrship it was welcomed by their existing membership. Only an elitist fanny would disagree. Ach nonsense Sid. If you choose to take the discount and sit in the family stand you've got the joint worst view in the stadium along with the away fans. Pay a bit extra and you'll get a better view, a bit more again and you'll get a padded seat. Then you can pay more again and get into hospitality. FFS even amongst season ticket holders there's another level of elite where some have bought parking permits that entitle them access to the car park so they don't have to walk quite as far as everyone else. Even when I first started to watch St Mirren in 1978 there was a hierarchy amongst the support. There were those who paid in once and got access to the terraced area's all around Love Street, and then there were those who paid again and got access to the main stand. Anyway even if we are supposed to sup up what you are saying as true I've never seen an argument anywhere that says some St Mirren fans should pay admission whilst others who don't want to can get in for free anyway. No, you and your lunatic mate Reborn saved that one for CIC membership..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted September 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 They have already set the monthly fee as low as possible to appeal to the majority without suggesting that it should be lower still for people claiming they cant afford it. how exactly is it going to be managed anyway? will low income families be expected to submit their acccounts to 10000 hours to prove they cant afford it but will have no problems coughing up £15 for the first round of drinks in a 'membership' bar they cant afford to join. I consider myself to be on lower than average wages so perhaps i should cancel my direct debit and wait for stsid to get me a free or reduced membership. Incidently, can anyone confirm if the direct debit details is showing up on their bank accounts yet? No one seems to know. No money is being taken from bank accounts as the CIC does not exist as yet. Might be wrong, but I believe that all existing SMiSA members continued with the initial rate, but that they increased their membership and their funds by bringing in the discounted rate. I believe SMiSA wanted to be a fully inclusive organisation. It would be shocking for the CIC to be elitist by contrast. If that is the route we are taking then we will quickly see direct debits getting cancelled. I would probably switch to SMiSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted September 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Ach nonsense Sid. If you choose to take the discount and sit in the family stand you've got the joint worst view in the stadium along with the away fans. Pay a bit extra and you'll get a better view, a bit more again and you'll get a padded seat. Then you can pay more again and get into hospitality. FFS even amongst season ticket holders there's another level of elite where some have bought parking permits that entitle them access to the car park so they don't have to walk quite as far as everyone else. Even when I first started to watch St Mirren in 1978 there was a hierarchy amongst the support. There were those who paid in once and got access to the terraced area's all around Love Street, and then there were those who paid again and got access to the main stand. Anyway even if we are supposed to sup up what you are saying as true I've never seen an argument anywhere that says some St Mirren fans should pay admission whilst others who don't want to can get in for free anyway. No, you and your lunatic mate Reborn saved that one for CIC membership..... That is a rather odd argument to put forward from someone trying to claim the there will not be a two teir support as a result of the CIC. It is just another example of where there will be differences of support and where the membership numbers will drop if all perspectives are not considered. This is why the representation needs to be managed very carefully. If the perception of the support is that an old school 80's clique forms then the fan ownership slant will quickly lose credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 That is a rather odd argument to put forward from someone trying to claim the there will not be a two teir support as a result of the CIC. It is just another example of where there will be differences of support and where the membership numbers will drop if all perspectives are not considered. This is why the representation needs to be managed very carefully. If the perception of the support is that an old school 80's clique forms then the fan ownership slant will quickly lose credibility. Where did I argue there wasn't going to be a two tier support? Football may traditionally be a working class sport but it's never followed Communist principles. Money has always bought you extra benefits whether it was a seat in a tinderbox grandstand or a hospitality box. Becoming a part of a Community Company isn't going to change any of that Sid and even if it did I wouldn't like to be a witness to the chaos it would cause as fans fight over their free padded seats.... I don't really see what the problem is though. Whether you are a member of the CIC or not you'll still be able to pay your admission and watch St Mirren and you'll be perfectly able to voice your opinion on the performance you've witnessed. You just won't be entitled to a vote on who represents members on the various boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted September 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Where did I argue there wasn't going to be a two tier support? Football may traditionally be a working class sport but it's never followed Communist principles. Money has always bought you extra benefits whether it was a seat in a tinderbox grandstand or a hospitality box. Becoming a part of a Community Company isn't going to change any of that Sid and even if it did I wouldn't like to be a witness to the chaos it would cause as fans fight over their free padded seats.... I don't really see what the problem is though. Whether you are a member of the CIC or not you'll still be able to pay your admission and watch St Mirren and you'll be perfectly able to voice your opinion on the performance you've witnessed. You just won't be entitled to a vote on who represents members on the various boards. Then we cannot claim to have fan ownership StuDick, nor can we claim to be a community club as we will be excluding fans from being members based on ability to pay. It is not about communism StuDick where everyone gets it for f"k all. It is about ensuring inclusion of the entire community. Dunno why you try and use political terms when you clearly haven't got a clue what you are talking about - stick to quoting / pilfering ideas from SEN events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marrez Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 There obviously needs to be some cost involved in joining, thats just life, if you want to be included you pay, if you dont want to, you dont pay. The cost really is not that prohibitive, its a pint less a week. That said, it would be great if there was good incentives with membership, how about you get a 50% off a hospitality for one or two games a season, that would generate the club money even on the reduced rate and would give more people the chance to see what we can do in hospitality, anyone I know that tries it goes back. I have not yet joined, im still unconvinced its the right way forward for me, something like the above would make me far more likely to join than not to join though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted September 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 There obviously needs to be some cost involved in joining, thats just life, if you want to be included you pay, if you dont want to, you dont pay. The cost really is not that prohibitive, its a pint less a week. That said, it would be great if there was good incentives with membership, how about you get a 50% off a hospitality for one or two games a season, that would generate the club money even on the reduced rate and would give more people the chance to see what we can do in hospitality, anyone I know that tries it goes back. I have not yet joined, im still unconvinced its the right way forward for me, something like the above would make me far more likely to join than not to join though. That makes no sense. For the CIC to get money the club needs to reduce its income. Sounds like you are not convinced because you don't understand it. So those that can pay should be further subsidised by the club for something they are already selling. Whereas an income based discount would allow the CIC to capture even more money from students, OAPs and other limited income breenjin bawbags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Then we cannot claim to have fan ownership StuDick, nor can we claim to be a community club as we will be excluding fans from being members based on ability to pay. It is not about communism StuDick where everyone gets it for f"k all. It is about ensuring inclusion of the entire community. Dunno why you try and use political terms when you clearly haven't got a clue what you are talking about - stick to quoting / pilfering ideas from SEN events. Who's claiming fan ownership Sid? The Football Club is going to be run by a Community Interest Company which is going to be owned and run by it's members. I've got to say for a man who has attempted to set himself up as an expert on this subject you're views here are utterly bizarre. The SFA are awarding Community Club status at Quality Mark to juvenile clubs that meet their designated criteria. We're going through this just now in Wishaw. The criteria talks about having a girls team, an adult team, teams in all age groups, qualified coaches, 1 football for each player, a minimum of one training session per week, etc, etc. Nowhere in there does it say that clubs should allow players to play for free. Nor should it. I can imagine you going to the local bowling club and suggesting that they give non members a vote in their committee elections, or suggesting that they scrap their membership fees and just let anyone who wants to play on their greens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted September 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Who's claiming fan ownership Sid? The Football Club is going to be run by a Community Interest Company which is going to be owned and run by it's members. I've got to say for a man who has attempted to set himself up as an expert on this subject you're views here are utterly bizarre. The SFA are awarding Community Club status at Quality Mark to juvenile clubs that meet their designated criteria. We're going through this just now in Wishaw. The criteria talks about having a girls team, an adult team, teams in all age groups, qualified coaches, 1 football for each player, a minimum of one training session per week, etc, etc. Nowhere in there does it say that clubs should allow players to play for free. Nor should it. I can imagine you going to the local bowling club and suggesting that they give non members a vote in their committee elections, or suggesting that they scrap their membership fees and just let anyone who wants to play on their greens. The CIC is claiming fan ownership StuDick. One of the seling points. If you attended the meetings you would know that. No one said anyone should get membership for free StuDick. You are letting your hysterical nature carry you away again. So all in all your post is your usual shite slabbering with nothing to add to the debate. What is being discussed is a discounted level of membership to further increase the CIC community, ensure all elements of the support are represented and that the club operates on behalf of all of the St Mirren community and not just the tie wearing w@nkers. Applying your logic the community members should be paying £10,000 per annum along with the corporate members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 The CIC is claiming fan ownership StuDick. One of the seling points. If you attended the meetings you would know that. No one said anyone should get membership for free StuDick. You are letting your hysterical nature carry you away again. So all in all your post is your usual shite slabbering with nothing to add to the debate. What is being discussed is a discounted level of membership to further increase the CIC community, ensure all elements of the support are represented and that the club operates on behalf of all of the St Mirren community and not just the tie wearing w@nkers. Applying your logic the community members should be paying £10,000 per annum along with the corporate members. However you outline it, the CiC to be a success amongst SMFC fans as well as Freeloading (Sorry Fully paid up) community members needs to be inclusive from day one. I.e. offering different levels of membership/involvement. £5 junior member (a'la panda club) with special first year half price on your 16 birthday £10 one off payment members giving perhaps bar access, but obviously no vote? £5 sticker and badge member that gets an incentive to upgrade within 12 months? they could be called the: CiCers..... Ci's or just C's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marrez Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 That makes no sense. For the CIC to get money the club needs to reduce its income. Sounds like you are not convinced because you don't understand it. So those that can pay should be further subsidised by the club for something they are already selling. Whereas an income based discount would allow the CIC to capture even more money from students, OAPs and other limited income breenjin bawbags. It wouldnt be reducing its income, it would be expanding its income. If a normal hospitality costs £90 plus vat, reducing that to £45 plus vat isnt going to lose the club any money (for a three course meal and wine, its still pretty dear, most cic members will already be season ticket holders, so no lost £20 ticket sale either). Its obviously just an idea for value adding onto the CIC. I understand the CIC perfectly well but in my opinion its not the best way forward for the club, ill get behind it when it goes ahead as it needs to succeed. There are other ways for the CIC membership to offer benefits to people paying that dont need to cost any money, such as the one suggested above, you only have to look at Clyde's season ticket deal last season where local businesses passed on brilliant offers and benefits to see that the CIC membership could be exploited far more for the community as a whole (which is the whole ethos behind a community club). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted September 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 However you outline it, the CiC to be a success amongst SMFC fans as well as Freeloading (Sorry Fully paid up) community members needs to be inclusive from day one. I.e. offering different levels of membership/involvement. £5 junior member (a'la panda club) with special first year half price on your 16 birthday £10 one off payment members giving perhaps bar access, but obviously no vote? £5 sticker and badge member that gets an incentive to upgrade within 12 months? they could be called the: CiCers..... Ci's or just C's... Not too far off the mark for me only I would go further. I would have a concession membership for adults of just £2 per month, that would not include the bar membership but would entitle the member to a vote - and any other CIC related offers from CIC corporate partners. Mibbae have a separate £20 one off membership for the bar. It is all free money for the CIC not to mention additional bar takings....daft not too.....unless of course you are an elitist tie wearing w@nker and see the CIC as some exclusive mutual masturbation club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Not too far off the mark for me only I would go further. I would have a concession membership for adults of just £2 per month, that would not include the bar membership but would entitle the member to a vote - and any other CIC related offers from CIC corporate partners. Mibbae have a separate £20 one off membership for the bar. It is all free money for the CIC not to mention additional bar takings....daft not too.....unless of course you are an elitist tie wearing w@nker and see the CIC as some exclusive mutual masturbation club. You see that highlighted last line would probably have a basic membership fee of £120 quid per event! And would sell out with c.ntcillors and the likes of Tommy Sheridan in no time at all You'd want a tiled/vinyl floor tho.... not a carpet It could be billed as "Lend A Hand" for a buddy night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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