St. Sid Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 In my opinion the supporters of this fine Club have been misled. That is a very interesting point. However, it has dafties like you that have been posting bollox upon bollox about REA and the CIC that have been guilty of trying to mislead the support with unwarranted negative speculation and malicious rumours. As per a previous point, I don't think the repeated estimates of time for completion have been helpful; however this is not uncommon in business and especially in anything involving govt or funding agencies. That being said it is the dodgy speculators and malicious rumour mongers that have jumped on estimates that they have tried to reinvent as deadlines. What they have always ignored is the clear statement from the consortium that they are involved in the discussions and will support and see the process through to its completion. So other than the neurotically invented deadlines in what way have the fans been misled - other than by you? We were also told by the great and good anti-CIC crusaders that it would all have collapsed by Thursday last week. What happened to that deadline - can we take it from that deadline being missed that the CIC is going ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenburn ed Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 Fair point I suppose glenburn but as I was raised to know the REAL name of our former home as St Mirren park and not just by the "commonly used name of Love Street" i can't accept 2 venues with the same title. Greenhill Road works for me though It was meant as a joke,apologies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenburn ed Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 Correct. I don't vote Labour Shull that makes me very happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) It was meant as a joke,apologies No worries glenburn..I never took offence and it's Greenhill Road for me from now on Edited October 2, 2011 by reborn saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdickloyal Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 That is a very interesting point. However, it has dafties like you that have been posting bollox upon bollox about REA and the CIC that have been guilty of trying to mislead the support with unwarranted negative speculation and malicious rumours. Correctomundo. That is why we need not pay attention to this Animal character and his numerous aliases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyg Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Correctomundo. That is why we need not pay attention to this Animal character and his numerous aliases. So you'll agree with Sid and his numerous aliases and recommend that everyone else does too , just cos it suits your agenda ? Aye very good ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 That is a very interesting point. However, it has dafties like you that have been posting bollox upon bollox about REA and the CIC that have been guilty of trying to mislead the support with unwarranted negative speculation and malicious rumours. As per a previous point, I don't think the repeated estimates of time for completion have been helpful; however this is not uncommon in business and especially in anything involving govt or funding agencies. That being said it is the dodgy speculators and malicious rumour mongers that have jumped on estimates that they have tried to reinvent as deadlines. What they have always ignored is the clear statement from the consortium that they are involved in the discussions and will support and see the process through to its completion. So other than the neurotically invented deadlines in what way have the fans been misled - other than by you? We were also told by the great and good anti-CIC crusaders that it would all have collapsed by Thursday last week. What happened to that deadline - can we take it from that deadline being missed that the CIC is going ahead. Maybe it was all a dream and when Richie Rich said "If it aint done by August I'll huff tae get back tae the tattie howkin... ken!" Anyhoos I can exclusively reveal an absolute difinitive deadline the CiC have asked me to pass on! And being the thrusting innovaters they are they asked could it be done by song Doug? What else could i do but say yes, just tell me which month we'll all be scoffing sausage rolls in the members bar and I'll craft a song to go with it. Ah well turns out a cover was all that was needed..... Enjoy! The CiC completion song Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 This may or not be the week - now I am not saying this from an "in the know" perspective; however a press conference at 4pm at some point this week or perhaps next week or the one after is a possibility but certainly not a certainty. If however the moon should align with uranus then completion can be said to be likely, if however an 18 year old female virgin is discovered in port glasgow then the CIC may never come to pass. However, my itchy @rse reckons there is something more than flatulence in the wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) This may or not be the week - now I am not saying this from an "in the know" perspective; however a press conference at 4pm at some point this week or perhaps next week or the one after is a possibility but certainly not a certainty. If however the moon should align with uranus then completion can be said to be likely, if however an 18 year old female virgin is discovered in port glasgow then the CIC may never come to pass. However, my itchy @rse reckons there is something more than flatulence in the wind. "When's it happening again Richie Atky???" "Well Doug it will definetly be by...... January, February, March, April, May June, July Thats's! January, February, March, April, May June, July Or! August, September, October November, December I said August, September, October November, December Three time!!!! (What I love about the video for this is the geezer from Boney M even struggles with these lyrics ) Edited October 4, 2011 by somner9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fras Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Semi-serious point: I think the CIC model is great. My main concern is that it is immediately saddled with too much debt, and a huge amount of the initial "payback" from supporters and community backers is going straight into managing that debt. This is entirely down to the ludicrous fee being asked by the BoD for the club. Good luck to them if they can get away with it, but with no other bidder to be seen for miles, I think RA is in a position of strength here. Its probably too late, but I would be looking at a "re-evaluation" of the selling price, with a guarantee of fixing the deal as a consequence. Nothing personal, just simple business - supply and demand, etc. This may cheer up any knicker-wetting public funders, and would also ensure that it speeds up the time where the monies coming in can be spent backing the team on the pitch, which is what we all want to see. In short: CIC - good concept. Could be great for the club if actioned properly. REA good guy - with genuine intentions. Big problem - CIC loaded with unneccesarily high debt due to agreeing to an asking price that nobody else is prepared to go anywhere near (quite rightly), thus reducing its effectiveness in the critical first 12-36 months. No problem with the BoD getting their slice from all the work they have out in, but a wee bit of realism is surely warranted here, after all the deal has always been to sell to someone for "the good of the club". Loading a rookie organisation up to the gills with debt due an unjustifiably high asking price is not good for the club. I can imagine the Dragon's Den scenario. A football club Director meets Duncan "I'm fae Clydebank no' Glasgow" Bannatyne : Director: I would like £2 million pounds for 52% of my business. Dragon: So you value your business at nearly £4m pounds? Director: Yes Dragon: What profit did you show last year? Director: Er....nothing Dragon: What assets does your company hold? Director: We have a Football stadium with a value of f**k all as land can be purchased locally for very little. That's on the basis that you Dragons - or any bank - would want the option of building houses or a supermarket on it if this goes tits up.We have players on contracts which are all due to expire within 2 years. They are not "top end" players so I suppose the value of those would be..........f**k all. Dragon: What plans do you have for expansion within the market? Director: Well, Scottish football is going through a major downturn as attendances fall, sponsorship diminishes and Television deals are being squeezed every year, so I suppose we have f**k all chance of any growth in the next 100 years. Dragon: Do you have anything positive to tell us? Director: Well I have persuaded a pleasant businessman to buy the business using the Public Purse and have the debts for this paid off by business groups & supporters who presently really don't have a clue what they will get for their money. Its a great idea and commendably involves the community and supporters - but that lot have got to worry about paying me back first .......because they are going to pay my valuation, even though it bears no relation to the real world. Dragon: (Ashen faced Bannatyne) f**k me ragged, you should be sitting here!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Semi-serious point: I think the CIC model is great. My main concern is that it is immediately saddled with too much debt, and a huge amount of the initial "payback" from supporters and community backers is going straight into managing that debt. This is entirely down to the ludicrous fee being asked by the BoD for the club. Good luck to them if they can get away with it, but with no other bidder to be seen for miles, I think RA is in a position of strength here. Its probably too late, but I would be looking at a "re-evaluation" of the selling price, with a guarantee of fixing the deal as a consequence. Nothing personal, just simple business - supply and demand, etc. This may cheer up any knicker-wetting public funders, and would also ensure that it speeds up the time where the monies coming in can be spent backing the team on the pitch, which is what we all want to see. In short: CIC - good concept. Could be great for the club if actioned properly. REA good guy - with genuine intentions. Big problem - CIC loaded with unneccesarily high debt due to agreeing to an asking price that nobody else is prepared to go anywhere near (quite rightly), thus reducing its effectiveness in the critical first 12-36 months. No problem with the BoD getting their slice from all the work they have out in, but a wee bit of realism is surely warranted here, after all the deal has always been to sell to someone for "the good of the club". Loading a rookie organisation up to the gills with debt due an unjustifiably high asking price is not good for the club. I can imagine the Dragon's Den scenario. A football club Director meets Duncan "I'm fae Clydebank no' Glasgow" Bannatyne : Director: I would like £2 million pounds for 52% of my business. Dragon: So you value your business at nearly £4m pounds? Director: Yes Dragon: What profit did you show last year? Director: Er....nothing Dragon: What assets does your company hold? Director: We have a Football stadium with a value of f**k all as land can be purchased locally for very little. That's on the basis that you Dragons - or any bank - would want the option of building houses or a supermarket on it if this goes tits up.We have players on contracts which are all due to expire within 2 years. They are not "top end" players so I suppose the value of those would be..........f**k all. Dragon: What plans do you have for expansion within the market? Director: Well, Scottish football is going through a major downturn as attendances fall, sponsorship diminishes and Television deals are being squeezed every year, so I suppose we have f**k all chance of any growth in the next 100 years. Dragon: Do you have anything positive to tell us? Director: Well I have persuaded a pleasant businessman to buy the business using the Public Purse and have the debts for this paid off by business groups & supporters who presently really don't have a clue what they will get for their money. Its a great idea and commendably involves the community and supporters - but that lot have got to worry about paying me back first .......because they are going to pay my valuation, even though it bears no relation to the real world. Dragon: (Ashen faced Bannatyne) f**k me ragged, you should be sitting here!!!! What an odd post for a fully signed up CIC supporter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_the_saint Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Semi-serious point: I think the CIC model is great. My main concern is that it is immediately saddled with too much debt, and a huge amount of the initial "payback" from supporters and community backers is going straight into managing that debt. This is entirely down to the ludicrous fee being asked by the BoD for the club. Good luck to them if they can get away with it, but with no other bidder to be seen for miles, I think RA is in a position of strength here. Its probably too late, but I would be looking at a "re-evaluation" of the selling price, with a guarantee of fixing the deal as a consequence. Nothing personal, just simple business - supply and demand, etc. This may cheer up any knicker-wetting public funders, and would also ensure that it speeds up the time where the monies coming in can be spent backing the team on the pitch, which is what we all want to see. In short: CIC - good concept. Could be great for the club if actioned properly. REA good guy - with genuine intentions. Big problem - CIC loaded with unneccesarily high debt due to agreeing to an asking price that nobody else is prepared to go anywhere near (quite rightly), thus reducing its effectiveness in the critical first 12-36 months. No problem with the BoD getting their slice from all the work they have out in, but a wee bit of realism is surely warranted here, after all the deal has always been to sell to someone for "the good of the club". Loading a rookie organisation up to the gills with debt due an unjustifiably high asking price is not good for the club. I can imagine the Dragon's Den scenario. A football club Director meets Duncan "I'm fae Clydebank no' Glasgow" Bannatyne : Director: I would like £2 million pounds for 52% of my business. Dragon: So you value your business at nearly £4m pounds? Director: Yes Dragon: What profit did you show last year? Director: Er....nothing Dragon: What assets does your company hold? Director: We have a Football stadium with a value of f**k all as land can be purchased locally for very little. That's on the basis that you Dragons - or any bank - would want the option of building houses or a supermarket on it if this goes tits up.We have players on contracts which are all due to expire within 2 years. They are not "top end" players so I suppose the value of those would be..........f**k all. Dragon: What plans do you have for expansion within the market? Director: Well, Scottish football is going through a major downturn as attendances fall, sponsorship diminishes and Television deals are being squeezed every year, so I suppose we have f**k all chance of any growth in the next 100 years. Dragon: Do you have anything positive to tell us? Director: Well I have persuaded a pleasant businessman to buy the business using the Public Purse and have the debts for this paid off by business groups & supporters who presently really don't have a clue what they will get for their money. Its a great idea and commendably involves the community and supporters - but that lot have got to worry about paying me back first .......because they are going to pay my valuation, even though it bears no relation to the real world. Dragon: (Ashen faced Bannatyne) f**k me ragged, you should be sitting here!!!! I get the impression that the price getting temporarily reduced at the moment would not make any difference. It appears that the final 1% is in fact tying up the biggest lump of funding. I just wonder, if this is a major well respected funder, the other funding could be agreed on condition that this major funder is on board - meaning that without this last 1%, there is no chance there would be enough to convince the directors to sell up temporarily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) What an odd post for a fully signed up CIC supporter. No, it's not. It's perfectly reasonable and obvious to all and sundry. If it wasn't St Mirren and perhaps some good to potentially emanate from this for the Paisley Community I would be totally against it. As it is, I hope Richy Rich and the lottery-winners er... SG and the others escaping with the loot manage to pull this off. If it was for any other club and town I would seriously wonder why public funds should be shovelled into taking control of any Scottish football club, far less one that shows little sign of ever turning sufficient profit to justify its current price tag. Just because Big Fras appears to have committed to invest a little dosh in an organisation for which he has previously shown rare commitment doesn't rob him of a brain and analytical perception. Or do you think he's wrong? Should the CIC be shelling out even more than it appears to be willing to do so far? Edited October 4, 2011 by bluto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fras Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 What an odd post for a fully signed up CIC supporter. What is odd about it Sid ? How the hell I could be seen to be having a go at the CIC is beyond me....... Despite initial suspicions and misgivings, I like the idea of a CIC, and believe it could work well for the club if handled well. RA has been good enough to reply to a few PMs regarding some queries I’ve made, and I don't doubt his sincerity in wanting a CIC to happen at St.Mirren. If there were Direct Debits then I guess I would be a fully paid-up member, but that’s nit-picking. I am just registering my concern at the fact that the CIC will be burdened by an unnecessarily high debt level, directly through an unjustifiable valuation of the club.......especially when there would appear to be a whirlwind of fiscal sh*te heading in everyone’s direction in the near future, making the banking crisis of 3 years ago seem like a tea party. I’m more interested in a vibrant future for St.Mirren FC (with a fully-organised CIC) rather than a “testimonial match” for the outgoing BoD. Vibrancy is hard to achieve with a massive debt round your neck in the middle of the worst recession for 80 years. All that hard work, and enthusiasm will be spent out in the first year or so, paying off a debt that needn’t be so high, as opposed to going into sustainably building a superb team on the pitch, which is ultimately what we all want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 What an odd post for a fully signed up CIC supporter. One line response gets two rambling justification posts from the usual bawbags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapsalmon Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 One line response gets two rambling justification posts from the usual bawbags. Pot and kettle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Pot and kettle? Big things happening tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fras Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Sid - instead of the lame wisecracks, and there is none better at long-winded diatribes than you (other than Stu D), let's cut to the chase: CIC - good thing ? I say Yes GLS on board - very good thing. Burdening the CIC from Day 1 with a massive debt due to an over inflated selling price - Bad thing, and hampers the progress that can be made by the CIC in the next 12-36 months. What say you ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 The 1 % has to be Tax liabilities and who pays them. If you take on board the statement from Richie that the 3 targets have been met regarding the BOD, the funders and the community then the 4th man can only be HMRC. If anyone wanted to buy the club for £2M net then they would have to take £4M from their buisness to meet the tax liability. Normaly Grants are tax exempt but I'm not so sure on this occasion as the profits of the board in this transaction would have to come under scrutiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil_Panda Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 GLS on board - very good thing. i wonder what yul makes of it........................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Sid - instead of the lame wisecracks, and there is none better at long-winded diatribes than you (other than Stu D), let's cut to the chase: CIC - good thing ? I say Yes GLS on board - very good thing. Burdening the CIC from Day 1 with a massive debt due to an over inflated selling price - Bad thing, and hampers the progress that can be made by the CIC in the next 12-36 months. What say you ? Eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Sid - instead of the lame wisecracks, and there is none better at long-winded diatribes than you (other than Stu D), let's cut to the chase: CIC - good thing ? I say Yes GLS on board - very good thing. Burdening the CIC from Day 1 with a massive debt due to an over inflated selling price - Bad thing, and hampers the progress that can be made by the CIC in the next 12-36 months. What say you ? Too late Fras, but a valiant try all the same - the announcement is being made today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fras Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Too late Fras, but a valiant try all the same - the announcement is being made today. Seriously Sid - I have exchanged PMs / e-mails with RA, and consequently am fully in support of the CIC, so you're barking up the wrong tree there. Good news that it looks like finally happening. My beef is that we start off with far too high a debt due to the price being paid for the club. If the purchase price was more realistic, then all the income streams to the CIC would find its way onto the pitch a lot quicker than it will now. I assume then that you support paying over the odds for the club, and this ensuring the CIC revenue stream takes longer to benefit SMFC on the pitch ? That;'s all I wanted you to clarify old chap. What say you ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Too late Fras, but a valiant try all the same - the announcement is being made today. Yeah the CiC will announce their version of a KLF classic..... "4pm Eternal" in brackets (Press Conference) Oh! January, February, March, April, May June, July August, September, October November, December Sing it Boney! : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher1981 Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Seriously Sid - I have exchanged PMs / e-mails with RA, and consequently am fully in support of the CIC, so you're barking up the wrong tree there. Good news that it looks like finally happening. My beef is that we start off with far too high a debt due to the price being paid for the club. If the purchase price was more realistic, then all the income streams to the CIC would find its way onto the pitch a lot quicker than it will now. I assume then that you support paying over the odds for the club, and this ensuring the CIC revenue stream takes longer to benefit SMFC on the pitch ? That;'s all I wanted you to clarify old chap. What say you ? Hey! St Sid got his inheritance to think about !!! ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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