Evil_Panda Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 latest from 10'000 hours 10000Hours News Update Some time ago we let you know that we had just the one final hurdle to overcome to achieve the full funding of the C.I.C in order to push ahead with the purchase of the shares from the selling Consortium. Unfortunately after many, many more weeks than anticipated we have not been able to get over this final hurdle. However we have been working in the background to put together an alternative funding proposal for the 52% share purchase. It has been agreed with the selling consortium that we will continue to explore this alternative. However, in fairness to them, they will also explore other options to see if they meet their desire to secure the long term success of St Mirren. We still believe that the Club owned and controlled by the fans and integrated into the community provides the best way to grow the Club and secure its future for the coming generations. Over 800 individuals plus Community and Corporate organisations indicated their support for a fan controlled Community Interest Company to take ownership of the majority shareholding and while it is immensely disappointing to have got so close to completing the purchase, the opportunity still exists. We therefore propose to have an open meeting for anyone to ask questions regarding the previous proposal and to discuss the way forward. As we have said all along a Community Interest Company needs the Community to be Interested....if the Community still is interested then we believe we can still make this happen We intend to hold the meeting on 30th of November (7pm) at Mirren Park, confirmation to follow. Finally we do apologise for being quiet for the last while, this has been necessary during the final attempts to complete the deal. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dweezboy Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 To my mind the CiC is dead. It's dragged on so long and there's still no end in sight, momentum and enthusiasm have been lost. Slightly worrying times due to the uncertainty within the club at a time when all else at the club is optimistic. Would have loved for some fresh new ownership in any form to take over from the BOD, who have worked wonders, and drive the club forward off the field. But the current off field malaise is frustrating. Still could be a lot worse..just need to look at r*ngers, Hearts or Dunfermline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapsalmon Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Personally I'm all for it. The more taxpayer liabilities that can be converted into self funding SEN's the better in my book - especially if the net result matches the success of the Atlantis. St Mirren is not a taxpayer liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 St Mirren is not a taxpayer liability. No, but the stadium could fulfil the function of facilities that are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Anybody elsed noticed a sudden drop in confidence from "the CIC is dead" brigade. The use of the term "brigade" has always been deliberate to reflect the blinkered, paranoid and genral sulkiness of the anti-CIC brigade. bluto and co appear to have gone from gloating that "the CIC is dead" based on pub rumour to "its no fair" based on a few Internet posts. and 33 minutes later (not even enough time to listen to all of Never Mind the Bollocks ) this - News release by 10000Hours; http://www.10000hour...000hours-update Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Bluto, serious question, but why? While I would agree with the camp that says £2m for 52% is excessive, what should be weighed up from the taxpayer perspective is whether or not this single investment would be cheaper than building a new facility and running it at an annual cost to the local authority. You answered your question. My biggest concern has always been an awful lot of public money going to buy out the owners of a professional football club. The sum demanded just makes it even more eye-wateringly and unnecessarily nippy... (Even the **** sold for £1.00... ) This... what should be weighed up from the taxpayer perspective is whether or not this single investment would be cheaper than building a new facility and running it at an annual cost to the local authority.......has now probably been properly assessed by community organisations that had been approached to invest in the CIC, and found to fail at that hurdle. That possibly will be why it is back on a shoogly drawing board... Of course, I'm simply speaking with an opinion as well-informed as Siddely's... I know nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 (edited) To my mind the CiC is dead. It's dragged on so long and there's still no end in sight, momentum and enthusiasm have been lost. Slightly worrying times due to the uncertainty within the club at a time when all else at the club is optimistic. Would have loved for some fresh new ownership in any form to take over from the BOD, who have worked wonders, and drive the club forward off the field. But the current off field malaise is frustrating. Still could be a lot worse..just need to look at r*ngers, Hearts or Dunfermline. Aye, it's very hard to envisage anything developing from the dying embers of the CIC now. It was always an ambitious project, made all the more challenging given the current economic climate, and I've always been a bit sceptical as to the notion that public money could be accessed in these circumstances. Was it worth a go? Probably. Nothing ventured and all that. I think it was earlier in the this thread that I posted my belief that this type of model is the way forward for clubs - particularly provincial clubs operating at the level of St Mirren. I didn't make a pledge to support the CIC initiative, so I'm relatively philosophical about this outcome. The positive atmosphere about the club in terms of the on-field progress is hopefully softening the blow for those who did support the CIC, and should also go some way towards ensuring that the club remains upbeat and regarded both internally and externally as a dynamic entity that is very much moving in the right direction. It would be a shame were the knives to come out for Richard Atkinson and colleagues. It seems to me that they have dedicated a great deal of time and personal resources into trying to take this forward, and deserve some credit for that. Recriminations at this time would be pointless, and probably damaging to the image of the club. A period of reflection and taking stock is more appropriate. There was always every chance that this initiative would fall through. Whether this will ultimately be regarded as an opportunity missed, or a bullet dodged remains to be seen. The main thing is that we still have our club, and the club remains in a pretty healthy position from where I'm sitting. Edited November 20, 2011 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Aye, it's very hard to envisage anything developing from the dying embers of the CIC now. It was always an ambitious project, made all the more challenging given the current economic climate, and I've always been a bit sceptical as to the notion that public money could be accessed in these circumstances. Was it worth a go? Probably. Nothing ventured and all that. I think it was earlier in the this thread that I posted my belief that this type of model is the way forward for clubs - particularly provincial clubs operating at the level of St Mirren. I didn't make a pledge to support the CIC initiative, so I'm relatively philosophical about this outcome. The positive atmosphere about the club in terms of the on-field progress is hopefully softening the blow for those who did support the CIC, and should also go some way towards ensuring that the club remains upbeat and regarded both internally and externally as a dynamic entity that is very much moving in the right direction. It would be a shame were the knives to come out for Richard Atkinson and colleagues. It seems to me that they have dedicated a great deal of time and personal resources into trying to take this forward, and deserve some credit for that. Recriminations at this time would be pointless, and probably damaging to the image of the club. A period of reflection and taking stock is more appropriate. There was always every chance that this initiative would fall through. Whether this will ultimately be regarded as an opportunity missed, or a bullet dodged remains to be seen. The main thing is that we still have our club, and the club remains in a pretty healthy position from where I'm sitting. Is their not a Meeting on 30th November? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottd Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Is their not a Meeting on 30th November? Que sera sera and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Is their not a Meeting on 30th November? There may well be, but this is my personal view - nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Aye, it's very hard to envisage anything developing from the dying embers of the CIC now. It was always an ambitious project, made all the more challenging given the current economic climate, and I've always been a bit sceptical as to the notion that public money could be accessed in these circumstances. Was it worth a go? Probably. Nothing ventured and all that. I think it was earlier in the this thread that I posted my belief that this type of model is the way forward for clubs - particularly provincial clubs operating at the level of St Mirren. I didn't make a pledge to support the CIC initiative, so I'm relatively philosophical about this outcome. The positive atmosphere about the club in terms of the on-field progress is hopefully softening the blow for those who did support the CIC, and should also go some way towards ensuring that the club remains upbeat and regarded both internally and externally as a dynamic entity that is very much moving in the right direction. It would be a shame were the knives to come out for Richard Atkinson and colleagues. It seems to me that they have dedicated a great deal of time and personal resources into trying to take this forward, and deserve some credit for that. Recriminations at this time would be pointless, and probably damaging to the image of the club. A period of reflection and taking stock is more appropriate. There was always every chance that this initiative would fall through. Whether this will ultimately be regarded as an opportunity missed, or a bullet dodged remains to be seen. The main thing is that we still have our club, and the club remains in a pretty healthy position from where I'm sitting. Great post.........There have been many on here and this is top 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) You answered your question. My biggest concern has always been an awful lot of public money going to buy out the owners of a professional football club. The sum demanded just makes it even more eye-wateringly and unnecessarily nippy... (Even the **** sold for £1.00... ) This... ... ...has now probably been properly assessed by community organisations that had been approached to invest in the CIC, and found to fail at that hurdle. That possibly will be why it is back on a shoogly drawing board... Of course, I'm simply speaking with an opinion as well-informed as Siddely's... I know nothing. Bluto, I'm sure we'll find out in due course but I don't think the £2m would have been the stumbling block when you look at the £2m of funding that was applied for by Ferguslie Housing Association for upgrade work at the Tannahill Centre. I would imagine the bigger issue may have been the three tier structure which, so far as I can see, was only necessary to facilitate the 48% shareholding. Edited November 21, 2011 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud77 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 You answered your question. My biggest concern has always been an awful lot of public money going to buy out the owners of a professional football club. The sum demanded just makes it even more eye-wateringly and unnecessarily nippy... (Even the **** sold for £1.00... ) This... ... ...has now probably been properly assessed by community organisations that had been approached to invest in the CIC, and found to fail at that hurdle. That possibly will be why it is back on a shoogly drawing board... Of course, I'm simply speaking with an opinion as well-informed as Siddely's... I know nothing. The prices for Saints and r*ngers are hardly a like for like comparison, they may have been sold for a nominal £1 but this included taking on their current debt plus potential tax liabilities - a truer figure is £30M plus. We on the other hand have little or no debt and aren't in danger of going into administration or out of business altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Aye, it's very hard to envisage anything developing from the dying embers of the CIC now. It was always an ambitious project, made all the more challenging given the current economic climate, and I've always been a bit sceptical as to the notion that public money could be accessed in these circumstances. Was it worth a go? Probably. Nothing ventured and all that. I think it was earlier in the this thread that I posted my belief that this type of model is the way forward for clubs - particularly provincial clubs operating at the level of St Mirren. I didn't make a pledge to support the CIC initiative, so I'm relatively philosophical about this outcome. The positive atmosphere about the club in terms of the on-field progress is hopefully softening the blow for those who did support the CIC, and should also go some way towards ensuring that the club remains upbeat and regarded both internally and externally as a dynamic entity that is very much moving in the right direction. It would be a shame were the knives to come out for Richard Atkinson and colleagues. It seems to me that they have dedicated a great deal of time and personal resources into trying to take this forward, and deserve some credit for that. Recriminations at this time would be pointless, and probably damaging to the image of the club. A period of reflection and taking stock is more appropriate. There was always every chance that this initiative would fall through. Whether this will ultimately be regarded as an opportunity missed, or a bullet dodged remains to be seen. The main thing is that we still have our club, and the club remains in a pretty healthy position from where I'm sitting. Hear, Hear...... Bullet Dodged, time to crack on in a professional manner and consign this car crash to history. Press conference 4:00pm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 As revealed a few weeks ago, the issue was with a change of personnel at the top level in the key funding organisation. The sellik supporting chap didnae fancy a strong St Mirren and veto'd the plan. I would liked to have seen REA let the fans have a go at the chap; however he is too nice a chap for that - not a bad thing. The redirection in terms of funding has been on the go for a while as we knew about the change in one funder back in June this year. The CIC plans are alive and well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 As revealed a few weeks ago, the issue was with a change of personnel at the top level in the key funding organisation. The sellik supporting chap didnae fancy a strong St Mirren and veto'd the plan. I would liked to have seen REA let the fans have a go at the chap; however he is too nice a chap for that - not a bad thing. The redirection in terms of funding has been on the go for a while as we knew about the change in one funder back in June this year. The CIC plans are alive and well. As are Hitler and Elvis who both work in Morrison's petrol station, and Aberdeen's mission to split the OF. The answer at long last to the OP is YES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) The prices for Saints and r*ngers are hardly a like for like comparison, they may have been sold for a nominal £1 but this included taking on their current debt plus potential tax liabilities - a truer figure is £30M plus. We on the other hand have little or no debt and aren't in danger of going into administration or out of business altogether. Fair enough - my analogy with the bitter bigots was never intended as serious comment. FWIW, I doubt CW went in there as a genuine bear, and tried to use it as a way of turning a swift profit. The early exit from Europe stuck his baw on the slates and I watch its impossible retrieval with growing delight, but I digress way off topic. Kinda... Perhaps I should have said... no matter how currently well run Saints are, what football club has ever turned a good regular profit and so with Saints, other than (very) limited asset-stripping potential, how could £2m ever be justified...? Where did that figure come from? Does anyone know how it could be arrived at? Is Feegie field sellable for that? Is the Training facility floggable for building on? Is there a realisable £2m of assets that sits unseen behind Saints? I appreciate SD's suggestion of £2m of funding that was applied for by Ferguslie Housing Association for upgrade work at the Tannahill Centre. but I'd assume £2m invested in that use would be considered worthwhile/good value compared with £2m to buy (what most people other than us Buddies would call) a wee diddy fitba club. I still have trouble getting to that price, thus debt level loaded on the purchaser - or club. Edited November 21, 2011 by bluto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Was/is rea haulage company signed up for the cic and if not .........why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whosyirdaddy Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Was/is rea haulage company signed up for the cic and if not .........why not? Not been on here in donkeys ages and not going through every thread etc If I cast my mind back I think there was talk about Maxi being the buyer alone however the meeting I attended Richard Atkinson stated that it would take a fool to just throw money at a football club buyout due to tax reasons..... Dont know if that answers your questions ..... Think RA possibly used his business background and any monies from his Daddy business / reputation to get involved in the club BUT I genuinely dont see it being a case of Maxi Haulage owners turning out to be sole buyer/s of our club, dont think it every was gonna happen (even if it was thought about by said buyers) or is every gonna happen..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) I'm sure HSS was asking if they had pledged their 10 grand as a corporate member mate. Edited November 21, 2011 by davidg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Thanks for your answer Raymie but David is right................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud77 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Fair enough - my analogy with the bitter bigots was never intended as serious comment. FWIW, I doubt CW went in there as a genuine bear, and tried to use it as a way of turning a swift profit. The early exit from Europe stuck his baw on the slates and I watch its impossible retrieval with growing delight, but I digress way off topic. Kinda... Perhaps I should have said... no matter how currently well run Saints are, what football club has ever turned a good regular profit and so with Saints, other than (very) limited asset-stripping potential, how could £2m ever be justified...? Where did that figure come from? Does anyone know how it could be arrived at? Is Feegie field sellable for that? Is the Training facility floggable for building on? Is there a realisable £2m of assets that sits unseen behind Saints? I appreciate SD's suggestion of but I'd assume £2m invested in that use would be considered worthwhile/good value compared with £2m to buy (what most people other than us Buddies would call) a wee diddy fitba club. I still have trouble getting to that price, thus debt level loaded on the purchaser - or club. Which brings us back to the question of how a private buy out would be funded, I'm not aware of any lottery winner in the Renfrewshire area and multi millionaire business people tend to make their millions by not using their own money. If the sale does go to a private buyer then I hope the ordinary fans get the opportunity to ask the awkward questions that the people against the CiC wouldn't ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Which brings us back to the question of how a private buy out would be funded, I'm not aware of any lottery winner in the Renfrewshire area and multi millionaire business people tend to make their millions by not using their own money. If the sale does go to a private buyer then I hope the ordinary fans get the opportunity to ask the awkward questions that the people against the CiC wouldn't ask. There's nothing there for me to argue against. If Saints are worth £2m then someone will buy. If not, then I don't believe it's right to expect that Public Funds should cough up £2m to liberate the current exhausted owners. In much the same way that I wouldn't expect public funds to go towards rescuing Dundee from their doldrums or Queen of the South from its sad state... By all means let it be bought by the community and made to work for the community, but not at a price that is unrealistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Zo Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 What's the latest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 What's the latest? WIP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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