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Poor R*ngers Theads Merged.....


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54 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

What does the league say? 

When Rangers died the league said it would give special dispensation to Charles Green's  brand new team (think it was the team name before sevco)  to use unsigned players from the deid club as members of his team to face Berwick.

The league also recognised  and said that Players were no longer tied to the deid club as it had... died.  You cannot be on contract to an entity that no longer exists.  That was why the best players - such as Alan McGregor managed to do walking away.  (Which they don't ever do, of course.)

The league also said it would allow a new club sevco into the league set up at the 4th division.  Despite this being against all of their rules for entry by new clubs - it had no experience, no 3 years of accounts to prove it was financially sound.

The name of the new club was changed from Sevco to...

well… to something that had never before been heard of!  

A Holding Company called Rangers International Football Club which only really ran one 'business venture' - The Rangers Football Club.  This was done merely to allow known "Glib and shameless liar" David Cunningham King (who had 40 odd criminal charges against him proven in South Africa) to 'manage/own the new club at one remove.  He wasn't fit to own a club otherwise.

 

The League then recognised how deid the deid club was - by making the new club (which wasn't Rangers) play in the preliminary opening rounds of the Scottish Cup - which, if it had been the club that was deid would not have had to happen.  Those rounds are for diddy cubs and new clubs.

 

Thank you for asking what the league said and thought of the unresurrected deid club which is not the current 'outfit'. 

The league, as you asked, has done lying somersaults to let idiots pretend that  it may be other than a dead club walking.  It still isnae.  :)

 

I'm sure this helps.

 

Edited by antrin
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2 minutes ago, antrin said:

When Rangers died the league said it would give special dispensation to Charles Green's  (think it was the team before sevco)  to use unsigned players from the deid club as members of his team to face Berwick.

The league also recognised  and said that Players were no longer tied to the deid club as it had... died.  You cannot be on contract to an entity that no longer exists.  That was why the best players - such as Alan McGregor managed to do walking away.  (Which they don't ever do, of course.)

The league also said it would allow a new club sevco into the league set up at the 4th division.  Despite this being against all of their rules for entry by new clubs - it had no experience, no 3 years of accounts to prove it was financially sound.

The name of the new club was changed from Sevco to...

well… to something that had never before been heard of!  

A Holding Company called Rangers International Football Club which only really ran one 'business venture' - The Rangers Football Club.  This was done merely to allow known "Glib and shameless liar" David Cunningham King (who had 40 odd criminal charges against him proven in South Africa) to 'manage/own the ne club at one remove.  He wasn't fit to own a club otherwise.

 

Thank you for asking what the league thought of the unresurrected deid club which is not the current 'outfit'. 

The league, as you asked, has done lying somersaults to let idiots pretend that  it may be other than a dead club walking.  It still isnae.  :)

 

I'm sure this helps.

 

It does indeed. 

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28 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

It does indeed. 

I've edited my post above, to include the fact that the new club started off at the very bottom - not only in the leagues but in the preliminary rounds of the cup, which no team that had been in Europe the previous year would have had the shame of having to do.

 

The league said that the new club had to do that.

 

My pleasure.  :)

Edited by antrin
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5 hours ago, antrin said:

I've edited my post above, to include the fact that the new club started off at the very bottom - not only in the leagues but in the preliminary rounds of the cup, which no team that had been in Europe the previous year would have had the shame of having to do.

 

The league said that the new club had to do that.

 

My pleasure.  :)

The part I struggle with is this. Rangers were registered with the league and had a licence to carry out matches within league and SFA rules. Was this transferable on a change of ownership of the club? If so.. It could be passed to another owner but the club did not die. Is that practical? 

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7 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:
19 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:
The part I struggle with is this. Rangers were registered with the league and had a licence to carry out matches within league and SFA rules. Was this transferable on a change of ownership of the club? If so.. It could be passed to another owner but the club did not die. Is that practical? 

Rangers (the club) accepted a points deduction when Rangers (the company) went into administration without ever trying to claim that they were two separate entities (that only happened when they died). To me, that signifies that even they saw themselves as one and the same.

I'm focused on the registration document and playing licence. 

Changes of ownership take place surely, but the registration stays in place, unless revoked? 

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56 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

 

 

54 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:
56 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:
I'm focused on the registration document and playing licence. 
Changes of ownership take place surely, but the registration stays in place, unless revoked? 

It was transferred to the new company that Charles Green set up, IIRC. Think antrin has already said that.

The deid club died..  it died along with its Licence/registration  and place in the league (which was taken by Dundee, don’t you remember?).

no change of ownership took place.  There was nothing to own.  Rangers died.  It has gone deceased. .  A Norwegian Glaswegian  blue, if you will...

 

Nothing was transferred.

a new company was created by a spiv, hoping to exploit credible bigots.  The scam has worked.

Green bought some of the assets from the administrators (who are still in the drawn-out process of administration that can only end in liquidation) and Green has used some of the assets to create a Frankenstein monster, follow followed by zombies, unironically.

 

the SFA/ spfl connived and cheated to allow the wholly new entity into the bottom league.

Edited by antrin
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13 minutes ago, antrin said:

 

The deid club died..  it died along with its Licence/registration  and place in the league (which was taken by Dundee, don’t you remember?).

no change of ownership took place.  There was nothing to own.  Rangers died.  It has gone deceased. .  A Norwegian Glaswegian  blue, if you will...

 

Nothing was transferred.

a new company was created by a spiv, hoping to exploit credible bigots.  The scam has worked.

Green bought some of the assets from the administrators (who are still in the drawn-out process of administration that can only end in liquidation) and Green has used some of the assets to create a Frankenstein monster, follow followed by zombies, unironically.

 

the SFA/ spfl connived and cheated to allow the wholly new entity into the bottom league.

Amen

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2 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:
2 hours ago, St.Ricky said:
I'm focused on the registration document and playing licence. 
Changes of ownership take place surely, but the registration stays in place, unless revoked? 

It was transferred to the new company that Charles Green set up, IIRC. Think antrin has already said that.

I get that. My problem is this. I know the company which owned the club went into liquidation I. E. Died.

How was CG able to obtain the rights to the registration from a company in administration / liquidation. Was money exchanged? 

The SFA etc appear therefore to have let another company use this licence. On what basis? Have they ever made this clear? 

Edited by St.Ricky
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1 hour ago, Slartibartfast said:

The Glaswegian Blue essentially had two membership "tokens", one for the SPL and one for the SFA. The SPL one was taken from them and given to Dundee. The SFA allowed their one to be transferred from the nearly dead parrot to Green's company. If you want any more detail than that, Google's your friend, not me.

Thanks Slarti. 

No need for more. These were the key points for me. 

Appreciated. 

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  • 4 weeks later...
54 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

Not at all, but maybe you should Stop before it gets Too Much for you and you need to Holler for help.  But If You Wanna Have Some Fun then Do It and Never Give Up On The Good Times, you don't need to Tell Me Why that's what you like even if I do think that there is Something Kinda Funny about it.

 

(I had to Google all of them - honest injun, guv :D )

Bollox-why don't you tell me what you want ( what you really really want)

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I get that. My problem is this. I know the company which owned the club went into liquidation I. E. Died.
How was CG able to obtain the rights to the registration from a company in administration / liquidation. Was money exchanged? 
The SFA etc appear therefore to have let another company use this licence. On what basis? Have they ever made this clear? 


The “company” did not own the “club”

The company and club were one and the same

The company / club went into liquidation

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33 minutes ago, Hiram Abiff said:

 


The “company” did not own the “club”

The company and club were one and the same

The company / club went into liquidation
 

 

Hiram. 

Any business can own a football team. The business registers with the appropriate authority and then holds the licence. Ownership of St Mirren and many others has changed many times over the years, the difference being that there was no transfer of the registration from one business to another. In the case of Rangers, as was, administration and liquidation took place. The assets of the liquidated business included, some might say wrongly, the registration that was held by the business. This and other assets were transferred to Sevco. The judgement then was for Scotland's Football Authorities to grant the continuance of that registration / licence or not. Whether you or I like it or not they chose to agree to the transfer with conditions attached. The main amongst these was that there would be no loss of Football Related Monies owed to either the Governing Bodies or Member Clubs. You might remember that Dundee United were due a decent sum. Had the football authorities voted differently then these monies would not be paid. That's one reason why clubs voted in agreement re the registration transfer and with it, the continuation of the football team as it is now. I'm more concerned that a judge could say that the EBT's didn't confer any football benefit to Rangers and that ergo they could keep their trophies. That seems just stupid to me. 

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5 hours ago, DougJamie said:

Big Deal story- a corrupt wee wannabe buys a club from a corrupt BIG wannabe, the club trying to be a wannabe

Pretty sweet and accurate edited description of those events!    :)

I'd only add a wee bit...

a corrupt wee wannabe buys a club from a corrupt BIG wannabe, the club trying to be a wannabe, then dying

 

2 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

Hiram. 

Any business can own a football team. The business registers with the appropriate authority and then holds the licence. Ownership of St Mirren and many others has changed many times over the years, the difference being that there was no transfer of the registration from one business to another. In the case of Rangers, as was, administration and liquidation took place. The assets of the liquidated business included, some might say wrongly, the registration that was held by the business. This and other assets were transferred to Sevco. The judgement then was for Scotland's Football Authorities to grant the continuance of that registration / licence or not. Whether you or I like it or not they chose to agree to the transfer with conditions attached. The main amongst these was that there would be no loss of Football Related Monies owed to either the Governing Bodies or Member Clubs. You might remember that Dundee United were due a decent sum. Had the football authorities voted differently then these monies would not be paid. That's one reason why clubs voted in agreement re the registration transfer and with it, the continuation of the football team as it is now. I'm more concerned that a judge could say that the EBT's didn't confer any football benefit to Rangers and that ergo they could keep their trophies. That seems just stupid to me. 

Any business CAN own a football team and its registration can change.  But in the case of the dead club that was not happening.  The club itself died - it WAS the business.  It went into admin and is now languishing on the dark shores of liquidation.

No registration or assets were transferred to sevco.   Green bought some of the assets and ignored the massive debts and people who were owed money.

Dundee took the dead club's place in the Premier League.

Green's new club was allowed in via a corrupt back door.  No registration for the deid club was transferred.  This corrupt and swift entry to the leagues was what Green paid off some of the football debts and told the SFA to GTF when they sought more.

 

The new club started in the basement of Scottish football  and despite paying silly money to players and managers took an awfy long time to clamber back up the leagues... and is now on even less sound financial footing than the deid club was before it perished.

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15 hours ago, antrin said:

Pretty sweet and accurate edited description of those events!    :)

I'd only add a wee bit...

a corrupt wee wannabe buys a club from a corrupt BIG wannabe, the club trying to be a wannabe, then dying

 

Any business CAN own a football team and its registration can change.  But in the case of the dead club that was not happening.  The club itself died - it WAS the business.  It went into admin and is now languishing on the dark shores of liquidation.

No registration or assets were transferred to sevco.   Green bought some of the assets and ignored the massive debts and people who were owed money.

Dundee took the dead club's place in the Premier League.

Green's new club was allowed in via a corrupt back door.  No registration for the deid club was transferred.  This corrupt and swift entry to the leagues was what Green paid off some of the football debts and told the SFA to GTF when they sought more.

 

The new club started in the basement of Scottish football  and despite paying silly money to players and managers took an awfy long time to clamber back up the leagues... and is now on even less sound financial footing than the deid club was before it perished.

Antrin

I agree that self interest amongst the other clubs in Scotland allowed this to happen. It shouldn't have imo but, I still maintain that the registration was transferred. Dundee took their place in the top league. They were happy. Dundee United and others owed money by the defunct business were happy as the deal meant that football debts were cleared as a condition of "switching" registration. The lower league clubs were happy as they saw a gravy train approaching as the New Gers worked their way through the leagues and their biggest rivals got the pleasure of being disdainful about Newco. The judge, a presumubly learned and intelligent man ruled that no sporting advantage had been gained by Old Gers through Ebt's. Farcical. We differ. 

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4 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

Antrin

I agree that self interest amongst the other clubs in Scotland allowed this to happen. It shouldn't have imo but, I still maintain that the registration was transferred. Dundee took their place in the top league. They were happy. Dundee United and others owed money by the defunct business were happy as the deal meant that football debts were cleared as a condition of "switching" registration. The lower league clubs were happy as they saw a gravy train approaching as the New Gers worked their way through the leagues and their biggest rivals got the pleasure of being disdainful about Newco. The judge, a presumubly learned and intelligent man ruled that no sporting advantage had been gained by Old Gers through Ebt's. Farcical. We differ. 

No we don't differ.  You are simply wrong.

Go read Wikipedia on what Green actually achieved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Green_(businessman)

It includes this following line about his new company that had bought some assets of the deid club and dumped the debts:

"The new company structure meant that Rangers had to apply for the transfer of their Scottish Premier League (SPL) share and have it decided by a vote between the twelve members of the SPL. The application was rejected on 4 July 2012 after a 10–1 'no' vote, with one abstention.[13] "

I only agree that the Nimmo- Smith (who was NOT ACTING AS A JUDGE, but merely had been asked the chair an SFA Commission - NOT a court of law - UNDER THE LIMITED, TIGHT, CONTROLLED  AEGIS OF THE SFA, set up to try to brush all their lying shit under the carpet) said it appeared no financial advantage had been gained. 

It was a fair attempt at a cover-up, especially if it has convinced suckers like yourself...

Nimmo Smith took his pieces of silver and delivered his judgement on the set-up charade, without being allowed to look at all the evidence and the reality of what had taken place.

He could claim to have been duped.

I can't be arsed going through every step of this with you.  If you are really interested in the truth about this affair, below is a Celtic-minded  page or so setting out the background.

https://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/how-nimmo-smith-was-misled-and-the-consequences-for-scottish-football/

 

 

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7 minutes ago, antrin said:

No we don't differ.  You are simply wrong.

Go read Wikipedia on what Green actually achieved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Green_(businessman)

It includes this following line about his new company that had bought some assets of the deid club and dumped the debts:

"The new company structure meant that Rangers had to apply for the transfer of their Scottish Premier League (SPL) share and have it decided by a vote between the twelve members of the SPL. The application was rejected on 4 July 2012 after a 10–1 'no' vote, with one abstention.[13] "

I only agree that the Nimmo- Smith (who was NOT ACTING AS A JUDGE, but merely had been asked the chair an SFA Commission - NOT a court of law - UNDER THE LIMITED, TIGHT, CONTROLLED  AEGIS OF THE SFA, set up to try to brush all their lying shit under the carpet) said it appeared no financial advantage had been gained. 

It was a fair attempt at a cover-up, especially if it has convinced suckers like yourself...

Nimmo Smith took his pieces of silver and delivered his judgement on the set-up charade, without being allowed to look at all the evidence and the reality of what had taken place.

He could claim to have been duped.

I can't be arsed going through every step of this with you.  If you are really interested in the truth about this affair, below is a Celtic-minded  page or so setting out the background.

https://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/how-nimmo-smith-was-misled-and-the-consequences-for-scottish-football/

 

 

In fairness Antrin that's probably not where I'd look for an unbiased account on what did or didn't happen.....that said, for the most part, I'm in your camp on this!!

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