Yul's Back

[The Feegie Saint]

Are you high ya madman.

Nah ! fair tae middling ma Man ? Mind and bring yir Pipe ? We can Aw Smoke I'ttt ?

[ktf]

And there we have it.....first wee hiccup and the girly sorts cry foul. The CIC supporters have been giving it large for months and now the tables have turned we are seeing a massive sulkfest on a par with the anti-CIC brigade when the CIC proposals broke.

Oh the irony. You couldny make it up. U-turn if you want, the Sidley is all for turning...

[St. Sid]

Oh the irony. You couldny make it up. U-turn if you want, the Sidley is all for turning...

More them and us nonsense. The bottom line is we are all St Mirren supporters. The anti-CIC brigade and the CIC Order sums up the last few months perfectly. We should all look at the various bids on their merits - not as "supporters" of one or the other. Disgraceful that you should try and turn it all into a "no surrender" situation. If REA has another way of achieving the CIC without the £700K and that seems to be the case then he should be heard. We should look at the new proposition on its merits. Not because we turned into the Maxi Loyal.

[Guest somner9]

Oh the irony. You couldny make it up. U-turn if you want, the Sidley is all for turning...

Thats a tad unfair imo! Sid has played it with a straight bat right down the line. He's been two-faced, condescending, rude and wind-up with absolutely everyone seeking neither favour nor position of influence within club (cough, cough,)

[ktf]

Thats a tad unfair imo! Sid has played it with a straight bat right down the line. He's been two-faced, condescending, rude and wind-up with absolutely everyone seeking neither favour nor position of influence within club (cough, cough,)

A shrew operator indeed, Somner9!

[TsuMirren]

More them and us nonsense. The bottom line is we are all St Mirren supporters. The anti-CIC brigade and the CIC Order sums up the last few months perfectly. We should all look at the various bids on their merits - not as "supporters" of one or the other. Disgraceful that you should try and turn it all into a "no surrender" situation. If REA has another way of achieving the CIC without the £700K and that seems to be the case then he should be heard. We should look at the new proposition on its merits. Not because we turned into the Maxi Loyal.

There's only one "bid" with any real information, which has been slaughtered in some quarters. Meanwhile, McGeoch's bid has been taken to heart by those people with absolutely no information. It's easy to see why things have "kicked off" on here, welll it is when some people can't stay off the wind up long enough to allow a discussion to develop.

I'm sure each has it's merits, even the rumoured third bid, we just don't know what those are for two of them.

[Guest somner9]

There's only one "bid" with any real information, which has been slaughtered in some quarters. Meanwhile, McGeoch's bid has been taken to heart by those people with absolutely no information. It's easy to see why things have "kicked off" on here, welll it is when some people can't stay off the wind up long enough to allow a discussion to develop.

I'm sure each has it's merits, even the rumoured third bid, we just don't know what those are for two of them.

Really if you rise to sid's bait you need to re-assess things. Any bid and let's not forget at present there are "None" on the table has to prove it's worth to the club/support/community when it's tabled. There is no Cic/hybrid bid at the moment only interest, neither has KMcg or the "Other" expressed interest been tabled. So all come under the microscope when/if they materialise.

What will be interesting to see as things develop which bid/bids (if any) gets the support of the fans?

[div]

I think the main problem anyone buying the club is going to have is that everyone is actually very happy with the guys who are sitting in the boardroom at the minute.

It's not like we are desperate to get shot of them, they have performed miracles, they are "safe" and they are all St.Mirren people.

So on that backdrop anyone coming in is going to be instantly treated with suspicion as to what they are all about and what their intentions are for the club. I imagine that is partly why the club is still for sale as the board are probably in the same boat, they obviously don't just want to sell and run away.

We are in a unique position in Scottish Football and very well placed to take advantage of the precarious nature of the other clubs in the SPL who are in an awful financial mess. It's important that the sale of the club doesn't get in the way of that IMO.

[HSS]

I'd be delighted if the current Board changed their minds and took the For Sale signs down.

[Vambo57]

Problem is, if a sole buyer materialises who has no interest in Community/fan power, then we will hear feck all information from him/her and we feck all to argue about.

[scottd]

Problem is, if a sole buyer materialises who has no interest in Community/fan power, then we will hear feck all information from him/her and we feck all to argue about.

As long as they are running the club in a prudent manner then I'd have no problems with that.

[ktf]

As long as they are running the club in a prudent manner then I'd have no problems with that.

What does that mean? Who has £2M of their own money to spend on 52% of St Mirren? No-one. So, where will Mr prudent get the money? Bank, Venture Capital trust? Chums who have leant to him? How will Mr Prudent pay bak these lenders and on what will the borrowing be secured? Taking a wage? The stadium? What happens when Mr Prudent falls into financial difficulty? He has been taking money out of the club of years to pay back debt that was owed to buy the shares, that money now goes into him just generally affording to live and loans get defaulted on. The lenders take possession of the asset on which the loans are secured and all the good work done by SG and co has gone out the window.

I appreciate this isn't the only scenario, but it is one of the most likely.

Now, I agree if the club is run in a prudent way by someone then that'd be great. However there is no-one, short of a millionaire coming in for fun to take it on as a pet project. Which won't happen. The only way the 52% will be sold is by the buyer borrowing. The only type of borrowing that won't be secured on the club's assets or won't involve a wage leaving the club will be the type that the CiC have access to.

There's hope that something unlikely can happen, Scott, then there is blind optimism based on nothing. I feel your dream of someone coming in and running everything nicely, keeping us out of debt and pumping their own money into the club for no return is at best blind optimism and worst pure ignorance.

However, if the CiC model fails, I hope that you are right and I am wrong. It's the club that I care about, not any other agendas or ambitions.

[scottd]

What does that mean? Who has £2M of their own money to spend on 52% of St Mirren? No-one. So, where will Mr prudent get the money? Bank, Venture Capital trust? Chums who have leant to him? How will Mr Prudent pay bak these lenders and on what will the borrowing be secured? Taking a wage? The stadium? What happens when Mr Prudent falls into financial difficulty? He has been taking money out of the club of years to pay back debt that was owed to buy the shares, that money now goes into him just generally affording to live and loans get defaulted on. The lenders take possession of the asset on which the loans are secured and all the good work done by SG and co has gone out the window.

I appreciate this isn't the only scenario, but it is one of the most likely.

Now, I agree if the club is run in a prudent way by someone then that'd be great. However there is no-one, short of a millionaire coming in for fun to take it on as a pet project. Which won't happen. The only way the 52% will be sold is by the buyer borrowing. The only type of borrowing that won't be secured on the club's assets or won't involve a wage leaving the club will be the type that the CiC have access to.

There's hope that something unlikely can happen, Scott, then there is blind optimism based on nothing. I feel your dream of someone coming in and running everything nicely, keeping us out of debt and pumping their own money into the club for no return is at best blind optimism and worst pure ignorance.

However, if the CiC model fails, I hope that you are right and I am wrong. It's the club that I care about, not any other agendas or ambitions.

That is all speculation and alarmist talk, which of course suits the agenda that you claim not to have.

[ktf]

That is all speculation and alarmist talk, which of course suits the agenda that you claim not to have.

Give us certain assurances on the other side then. Go on, give us all a way that it'll work that has no speculation.

It's only alarmist talk if there is nothing to be alarmed about. But in recent years we have lost Livvie, Gretna, Airdrie, Dundee are in trouble, Hearts, Dung, R*nfers are all in trouble. And that's just the ones off the top of my head. These are alarming times and the outlook isn't good for many clubs. We are in a good position due to the great job that our BoD have done and also due to a good slab of luck. It only takes someone not so careful and some bad luck and we can go the way of those others.

So go on, we're all ears.

[scottd]

Give us certain assurances on the other side then. Go on, give us all a way that it'll work that has no speculation.

It's only alarmist talk if there is nothing to be alarmed about. But in recent years we have lost Livvie, Gretna, Airdrie, Dundee are in trouble, Hearts, Dung, R*nfers are all in trouble. And that's just the ones off the top of my head. These are alarming times and the outlook isn't good for many clubs. We are in a good position due to the great job that our BoD have done and also due to a good slab of luck. It only takes someone not so careful and some bad luck and we can go the way of those others.

So go on, we're all ears.

I'm not part of any bid to take over the club, so it is not my position to be giving assurances. Pretty sure that Gilmour wouldn't be selling to anyone who'd put us in the shit. Maybe I am naive to believe that but there you go. It's now up to Richard and his supporters to prove that they have the ability to run the club, from what I've seen so far I have my doubts.

[Guest somner9]

Give us certain assurances on the other side then. Go on, give us all a way that it'll work that has no speculation.

It's only alarmist talk if there is nothing to be alarmed about. But in recent years we have lost Livvie, Gretna, Airdrie, Dundee are in trouble, Hearts, Dung, R*nfers are all in trouble. And that's just the ones off the top of my head. These are alarming times and the outlook isn't good for many clubs. We are in a good position due to the great job that our BoD have done and also due to a good slab of luck. It only takes someone not so careful and some bad luck and we can go the way of those others.

So go on, we're all ears.

Ok!

What if potential buyers were a small consortium who each put a fifth of the price in, they don't need to borrow as each have sufficent assets and the see SMFC as an opportunity to inject some fresh ideas and purpose cementing its position as a well run spl club engaing fans and the community.

Hang on some of that sounds quite familar! now where could you find a set up like that?

Naw let's just wave a few "were all doomed" shrouds around instead

[ktf]

Ok!

What if potential buyers were a small consortium who each put a fifth of the price in, they don't need to borrow as each have sufficent assets and the see SMFC as an opportunity to inject some fresh ideas and purpose cementing its position as a well run spl club engaing fans and the community.

Hang on some of that sounds quite familar! now where could you find a set up like that?

Naw let's just wave a few "were all doomed" shrouds around instead

Still speculation...! But a great way forward for the club and one that I'd welcome! Time will tell whether any of the non bids are of that nature!

[ktf]

I'm not part of any bid to take over the club, so it is not my position to be giving assurances. Pretty sure that Gilmour wouldn't be selling to anyone who'd put us in the shit. Maybe I am naive to believe that but there you go. It's now up to Richard and his supporters to prove that they have the ability to run the club, from what I've seen so far I have my doubts.

That's the beauty Scott, it isn't Richard who'll be leading it and he won't be around forever... Maybe for a time, but we'll all, you and me and Sid and SO77 and Tsu and Feegie Saint and, heaven forbid, Bluto we'll be here for years and our kids after us and if this works then we/they'll have a genuine stake in the club, we'll have the opportunity to shape it moving forward and we'll have the chance to do something for the town.

If it works it'll go a long way to ensure that the club will be here for our kids and their kids. I'm not trying to scaremonger, I'm just putting eggs into this basket as I think it is the most secure.

Maybe I've appeared like I have an agenda and maybe it seems I have been anti those who are against it. Perhaps my enthusiasm got the better of me. Fair enough if you don't feel the same way, but I think it might be our only chance to make it really ours and I'd love to give it a go!

[scottd]

it isn't Richard who'll be leading it

So is Richard no longer involved? I, and many others, assumed that once the CIC takes over he'd be installing himself as chairman with the backing of the corporate vote.

[RickMcD]

Can someone tell me, if a CIC/Co-Operative type syndicate takes over, is it absolutely impossible for anyone to assign the stadium to cover borrowing?

[bluto]

That's the beauty Scott, it isn't Richard who'll be leading it and he won't be around forever... Maybe for a time, but we'll all, you and me and Sid and SO77 and Tsu and Feegie Saint and, heaven forbid, Bluto we'll be here for years and our kids after us and if this works then we/they'll have a genuine stake in the club, we'll have the opportunity to shape it moving forward and we'll have the chance to do something for the town.

If it works it'll go a long way to ensure that the club will be here for our kids and their kids. I'm not trying to scaremonger, I'm just putting eggs into this basket as I think it is the most secure.

Maybe I've appeared like I have an agenda and maybe it seems I have been anti those who are against it. Perhaps my enthusiasm got the better of me. Fair enough if you don't feel the same way, but I think it might be our only chance to make it really ours and I'd love to give it a go!

Touche

[St. Sid]

Can someone tell me, if a CIC/Co-Operative type syndicate takes over, is it absolutely impossible for anyone to assign the stadium to cover borrowing?

You get an asset lock, which is one of the big benefits of being a CIC. A traditional bid will start with debt that will be set against the clubs assets, with the repayments of the debt coming straight out of the clubs revenues. That is the situation everyone wants to avoid.

And before the usual dafties kick off that is not scare mongering in favour of the CIC - it is just providing an answer to a civilly delivered question. Its been a while since we had one of those.

[RickMcD]

You get an asset lock, which is one of the big benefits of being a CIC. A traditional bid will start with debt that will be set against the clubs assets, with the repayments of the debt coming straight out of the clubs revenues. That is the situation everyone wants to avoid.

And before the usual dafties kick off that is not scare mongering in favour of the CIC - it is just providing an answer to a civilly delivered question. Its been a while since we had one of those.

Thanks for that,Sid. My only criticism of the CIC bid was that far too long period where there was only total silence. I had always said I had no strong feeling one way or another thing.

The funny thing is, as soon as it was confirmed that the CIC as was originally envisaged was no more, I had one of those what you would call an eppy fanny moment. I suddenly, and I don't know why, felt that just possibly a great opportunity might be slipping away. Absolutely illogical but there you are.

That doesn't mean that I am now 100% convinced, but more sympathetic. However, I still think that what is unveiled next week has to be good. If it's airy fairy or in any way unconvinving it could well be dead in the water.

[St. Sid]

Thanks for that,Sid. My only criticism of the CIC bid was that far too long period where there was only total silence. I had always said I had no strong feeling one way or another thing.

The funny thing is, as soon as it was confirmed that the CIC as was originally envisaged was no more, I had one of those what you would call an eppy fanny moment. I suddenly, and I don't know why, felt that just possibly a great opportunity might be slipping away. Absolutely illogical but there you are.

That doesn't mean that I am now 100% convinced, but more sympathetic. However, I still think that what is unveiled next week has to be good. If it's airy fairy or in any way unconvinving it could well be dead in the water.

Exactly my view too Rick. I just started a new thread where hopefully posters will calm their jets a bit like the original Q&A thread that eventually died on its @rse. I agree that the silence was poor from our perspective and has done 10000hrs no favours. I think that message will have hit home now.

[Guest somner9]

Can someone tell me, if a CIC/Co-Operative type syndicate takes over, is it absolutely impossible for anyone to assign the stadium to cover borrowing?

If it's a co-op (IPS) then the membership have the greatest possible influence as it's one member, one vote, therby giving the opportunity to de-select any board member/s not coming up to scratch/looking after number one.

This isnt the case with a CiC as once the exec board are in they can do pretty much what they want among themselves! (Doesn't look great considering 10000 hours want you to foot the bill for them)