Vambo57 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) i don't see it as scaremongering by somner9, he has posted a link which i assume to be official rules for a cic, what i take from it is that if a cic is declared insolvent then it has to have it's assets taken up by another cic or charity, the only asset 10,000 hours would have will be 52% of smfc shares, they would not own the stadium or players outright, does this mean that no single person will ever be able to buy a controlling share of smfc if a cic hold the majority ? and if that cic goes insolvent does it mean another cic would have to be set up or does it mean an existing cic has to take over. and what would they have to take over - debts of the insolvent cic, can,t see a charity or cic wanting to take on debt. or maybe i need to find out more about share ownership. as it stands at the moment we do not have a cic who own any shares in smfc , a single buyer or group could buy up the shares and we have to rely on sg and co, when and if it comes to the stage where they need to decide on any shares being sold - they own the shares and have the right to sell to whom they wish, i would trust them to make the right choice. The Consortium had already agreed to sell to The CIC and would have months ago - if the funding had been there. I too trust SG & co to make the right choice, so why were/are you against the CIC? Edited November 30, 2011 by Vambo57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Any ideas on what percentage of CIC's become insolvent? Naw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Did the CIC in Kensington in Liverpool actually ever become insolvent? The story from 6 months ago is based on a local councillor saying that if Liverpool City Council pulled the funding it had agreed to pay the CIC each year then the CIC could become insolvent. It would seem that Liverpool City Council had agreed to pay the CIC £200k a year and had not kept to their side of the bargain... all of which is very different to 10,000 Hours being given the funding to buy the 52% shareholding and then later struggling to meet the repayment deadlines to the funders over 10 years. Yes it's different but dispels the myth circulating these boards that for some strange reason the bodies lending to 10000 hours never, ever want their loan paid back as agreed in the contract. Hmmm I might put me self down for £1.3m then if its for free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Kibble by any chance ? Meeeee-iow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 so the cic have to register a charity or alternative cic to transfer assets to in the event of it becoming insolvent, so do we know who 10,000hours would be registering as their chosen cic/charity Another red herring......a quick call to any of the SEN orgs will set you straight as will reading a bit further on the CIC regulations. Companies House would be a good place for you to start if you are going to decide on your clubs future by "google". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) Another red herring......a quick call to any of the SEN orgs will set you straight as will reading a bit further on the CIC regulations. Companies House would be a good place for you to start if you are going to decide on your clubs future by "google". Just to ensure people get the facts please see chapter 10 in the link that clearly states the rules to "Specify an asset locked body" in your CiC's articles of associationhttp://www.bis.gov.u...to-be-a-cic.pdf Unlike wee Sidley "What can't talk, can't lie" Edited November 30, 2011 by somner9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Yes it's different but dispels the myth circulating these boards that for some strange reason the bodies lending to 10000 hours never, ever want their loan paid back as agreed in the contract. Hmmm I might put me self down for £1.3m then if its for free And yet again in your attempts to argue against the CIC you actually argue for it. The CIC takes in £1.3M a significant percentage of which is through "free money". Even more of the money is written off through social ROI. That leaves an amount to be paid back. Contrast that with a traditional bid. Funded through debt, repaid from the operating budget - and any default would be on the club itself. Even allowing your argument as having some merit, you are still arguing in favour of the CIC. A traditional takeover of the club is likely to see a significant percentage of the operational budget of the club used to pay off the debt for at least five years all things being well. On the footballing side of the club alone the CIC makes the most sense. Then when you throw in the community benefits the pro's shoot through the roof. So what are the pro's of a traditional takeover of the club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) And yet again in your attempts to argue against the CIC you actually argue for it. The CIC takes in £1.3M a significant percentage of which is through "free money". Even more of the money is written off through social ROI. That leaves an amount to be paid back. Contrast that with a traditional bid. Funded through debt, repaid from the operating budget - and any default would be on the club itself. Even allowing your argument as having some merit, you are still arguing in favour of the CIC. A traditional takeover of the club is likely to see a significant percentage of the operational budget of the club used to pay off the debt for at least five years all things being well. On the footballing side of the club alone the CIC makes the most sense. Then when you throw in the community benefits the pro's shoot through the roof. So what are the pro's of a traditional takeover of the club? Oh so now 10000 hours does have to pay back the loans! it's all so confusing what with them insisting on using the phrase LOAN! I mean WTF does that all mean? Edited November 30, 2011 by somner9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Just to ensure people get the facts please see chapter 10 in the link that clearly states the rules to "Specify an asset locked body" in your CiC's articles of associationhttp://www.bis.gov.u...to-be-a-cic.pdf Unlike wee Sidley "What can't talk, can't lie" I see you haven't bothered to point out that your latest link actually contradicts your previous interpretation of the last link. You're getting yourself into some mess s9? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Oh so now 10000 hours does have to pay back the loans! it's all so confusing what with them insisting on using the phrase LOAN! I mean WTF does that all mean? Of course they have to pay back the loans. You are just being silly now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I see you haven't bothered to point out that your latest link actually contradicts your previous interpretation of the last link. You're getting yourself into some mess s9? Ha ha sidley well rattled..... people are reading the facts now Sid not your brand of whatabouterry, scaremeongering and mis-information. Education! Education! Education! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Fools gold for everyone. Just $10 dollars Americano a month exchangeable for the blind trust and the waco like following of a Mirren Messiah, a Stranger who came out of the west. He said, ‘’I employ 400’’. It was proven he didn’t. The villagers ignored this truth. ‘‘Yea’’ he said believe in me. And they did. Lawd above, he even admitted he was using them and they not only accepted it but were prepared to foot the bill for it! They swallowed the stinging criticism of one of his posse, a cowpoke known as the Kibble Kid, a man not fit to lace the boots of the club ‘legend’ they persuaded to act as their frontman. The KK, a man who felt it appropriate to insult them and their club at the first public meeting held in their own new stadium (not his, he’s not a Saints fan either, shellik I think) and ask ‘‘it makes you wonder what they (the board) have been doing for the last ten years, followed by ‘‘why has it taken US to come in and sort all this out?’’ Hot damn and the followers swallowed this stuff content to bankroll a new outside outfit controlled by the Stranger where not a dime, peso or penny would go to the club. The Stranger and his posse (a couple of honchos and a whole lot of freeloaders in the boardroom at home games) continued to tell the fans they would have a say in the club. The villagers gathered in the village square. Some of them so blind tried to take their fellow Saints fans with them. They posted. Follow him, follow the Stranger, he knows best. We are willing to be an experiment, we know we won’t own the club but this is best. If it fails we will just go back to the way we were. It’s enough to make a St Sad sad. So they followed blindly without any REAL question or scrutiny. They defended him, made excuses for having dirt - as opposed to paydirt - kicked in their faces. They attended meetings, when they were actually held. They gave their private banking details to unknown strangers. Later some even posted that they hoped their bank details had not been lost. Boy howdy did they trust. Then the backers pulled the six shooters out when a whole selection of concerned FELLOW FANS voiced concerns. Their answer was to ridicule and demand alternatives, even though the alternative is and was the status quo (no not that status quo) until normal business practice is re-introduced. Nobody ever suggested that the board revert to individuals and do not act as a bloc of shares. There was no darned need for an alternative to be suggested. The agenda was being set by the board and the Stranger was a central part of that process. As sundown followed sundown some fans even started to do the Stranger’s job for him, because he was doing a fair impression of hiding out with the hole in the wall gang. Where was he? Where is he? Boo hoo why won’t he talk to us? One or two even suggested the cic was a done deal. Tumbleweed rolled by. Good results on the pitch helped divert attention. Transparent information was lacking. The fans can wait was the attitude. Meetings were called, meetings were cancelled – tomorrow - we only need three weeks. The wagons were circled. Where are those darned direct debits. Have they been returned to the senders? Will the forms be returned? Who is storing them? Are they registered to legally collect this information? Have any fans called the club to find out? No. They’ve given their personal banking details to the stranger who is informing them in a transparent and businesslike way each and every day. Don’t worry. Don’t question. Behind the scenes the Stranger has lost the support of all staff. He has brought nothing of substance to our club. He has proved beyond all doubt that marketing is not his forte. Cancel Christmas. We have no shop to speak of. No real Saints gear on sale. Leave your strip for days just to letter, then phone, call, send a pigeon, telegraph to find out what’s happening. JD staff still tell fans they don’t sell Saints strips. The deal is worth much less than Provans. His mini programme failed. The laundry was a washout. Soaking $1.50 from whippersnappers mobile phones has thankfully stopped. Other scary stuff never made it to the fans. The big backers on forums have gone to ground. Other clubs are dumbfounded. The club has not been held up and delivered into the hands of a bunch of amateurs funded by the fans and the taxpayers while they swan around the boardroom and pow wow about how the cic will pay its debts with smisa’s and fans’ dollars. WHERE DO SMISA STAND NOW? St Mirren fans who HAVE put cash into the club on more than one occasion meet soon. How about a statement before the club AGM SMISA pardners. The Stranger has not succeeded in swiping taxpayers’ loot and putting in place a three board structure that could only lead to disagreement and argument. There is no place for the Stranger in all of this. He is commercial director and has overseen a strip deal devoid of hard cash. A commercial operation he has put in shackles and darned well hog tied. Seen the club ridiculed in the press over laundry, church services, and a shambles of cic launch. All of this while posters who would have previously slaughtered Provans/ the commercial department /the club/the board for just an itty bitty fraction of this say hee haw or complain. There is no way back. Credibility is gone. Would you buy a cart from this man? The Stranger rode into our town with a fistful of counterfeit dollars. His and the cic’s credibility have gone. Time he rode out again on a buroo which is where I might end up with a script like this (I blame the six). He does not own a company that employees 400 and I may just be one of them! St Mirren is a football club. It and the fans come first. They do not deserve to be an experiment. The cic would ultimately destroy our club. For a taste of the future just look at the way ordinary decent fans have been treated by a stranger who has said he would inevitably be bossman. That’s the reality of the future management style of the cic. Why would any villager want to pay $10 a month for the privilege of being no more than window dressing? It was always fools gold. The cic is dead, worse the Stranger knows it. Mr. Brynner and his six side cics. Trust and credability...KMG's is well and truly in the shitter. Why won't he talk to us.....looks like he had a lot to hide. Funded by the taxpayers.....it would appear KMG's scumgers #2 bid was indeed funded by the taxpayers if the tax dodgers had got away with it. Where do SMISA stand now?.......as much distance between them and KMG I'd hazzard. Would you buy a cart from this man........only if he was under it. After all the bile and allegations directed at SG and REA and sustained over a long period of time you have to look on with some astonishment at the brass neck of KMG to still be flinging mud in their direction with an accusation about a "campaign" against his invisible bid when such negative tactics were employed by his "seven". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Barlow Loyal Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 C'mon "Good Ol' Yul"! Come and shower us with your Wild West wisdom! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 C'mon "Good Ol' Yul"! Come and shower us with your Wild West wisdom! He'll be too busy plotting to sue the club he is claiming he wants to save. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qarsaan Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) I do hope Yul returns. I actually miss the wild west patter. Please return - the village idiots need your help to save the towns club from the evil grasp of the Stranger (REA) There were four films made: The Magnificent Seven Return of the Seven Guns of the Magnificent Seven and finally The Magnificent Seven Ride Unfortunately it is looking like this mud gun-slinger looks to have ridden out of town for good. Shame really - the stories were top notch. With old films getting a remake (eg True Grit) in recent times, this poster could easily come up trumps with an updated script an then if he/she were to convinc some Hollywood studio to give them an advance and they could easily buy the club from the charlatans that are the Stranger (REA) and the Kibble Kid (Jim). Cracking needs no updating. You missed 'Westworld' should be aka, 'Father of Terminator.' It was brilliant. .. and so was the Mag7 music. Edited March 30, 2012 by Qarsaan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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