Gruffalo Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Let me be as clear as i have always been. I do not want to meet, or have discussions with 10000 hours. I have taken as a given that this forum was for fans to discuss their, hopes, fears, reservations, wishes, dis-interest or whatever regarding 10000 hours and the proposed CiC, and any other bids if we ever get any detail about them. At the start of this forum the following is posted by the Mods to give us an expectation of what the forum is about: St.Mirren For Sale The majority shareholding in the club is for sale. This forum is for debating the merits of any bid that is being made for the control of St.Mirren FC. Previously this was the 10000Hours forum but questions to the 10000Hours team should now be directed to the team via their own site at www.10000hours.org where they now have their own dedicated forum. I take from that if i want them to answer a question I might have then i should go to them and ask it! If i ever have one that's where i'll go. Obviously the Mods have decided to ignore their guidance and encourage 10000 hours to stifle any debate that doesn't suck up to them. Thats the Mods choice! But perhaps they should make that clear also in the forum heading? Only my opinion mind! you'll have to ask the many what they think? But you don’t ask questions. You subscribe to tittle and tattle and post about mundane issues. Last week you made a big play about being allegedly carpeted by the “Club”. Rather than post “facts” on the alleged carpeting you post youtube excerpts from Dads Army. When Reg Breadly wanted control of the club. SG had the balls to stand up and say ( paraphrase) No this guys is a crook because ……bla bla. The club should avoid him like the plague. A channel 4 documentary prove that SG was correct and the club had a lucky escape. Now that was a “smoking gun” Your gripes this week are about who gets the hundreds of pounds of profit from the club bar and whether the punters whilst supping their pint realise the 10p profit from that pint is not going direct to the club. Then we have the issue with regards what will happen to the club if/when it has a cash-flow issue. In recent times the clubs cash-flow issues have never been resolved by the shareholders, they have been resolved by the willingness of members of the board giving short term loans to the club. Those loans would have been paid back with interest to those parties when the cash-flow issue was resolved. In the future I suspect a similar scenario will prevail. In business if you have a short term cash flow issue you approach the bank, a business angel, colleagues, friends and you ask them for money to tide you over. They ask how much, how long and whats in it for me !. You agree a deal and move on. If you don’t pay it back you go back to renegotiate, if they say no, its game over. Simple! If you have a killer of a question then we all want to hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilsaint Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 the last of Somner's credibility has now evaporated. I doubt he has managed to dissuade even one person from supporting 10000hours, despite having spent many months trying. Gotta feel for the poor guy, I'm sure it's all well intentioned. What's more, I love the "everybody's picking on me" line in an attempt for sympathy. Grow a set Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 But you don’t ask questions. You subscribe to tittle and tattle and post about mundane issues. Last week you made a big play about being allegedly carpeted by the “Club”. Rather than post “facts” on the alleged carpeting you post youtube excerpts from Dads Army. When Reg Breadly wanted control of the club. SG had the balls to stand up and say ( paraphrase) No this guys is a crook because ……bla bla. The club should avoid him like the plague. A channel 4 documentary prove that SG was correct and the club had a lucky escape. Now that was a “smoking gun” Your gripes this week are about who gets the hundreds of pounds of profit from the club bar and whether the punters whilst supping their pint realise the 10p profit from that pint is not going direct to the club. Then we have the issue with regards what will happen to the club if/when it has a cash-flow issue. In recent times the clubs cash-flow issues have never been resolved by the shareholders, they have been resolved by the willingness of members of the board giving short term loans to the club. Those loans would have been paid back with interest to those parties when the cash-flow issue was resolved. In the future I suspect a similar scenario will prevail. In business if you have a short term cash flow issue you approach the bank, a business angel, colleagues, friends and you ask them for money to tide you over. They ask how much, how long and whats in it for me !. You agree a deal and move on. If you don’t pay it back you go back to renegotiate, if they say no, its game over. Simple! If you have a killer of a question then we all want to hear it. Do you really think I stupid enough to post on a public forum details of communication to me by the BoD requesting I explain "Unfounded Allegations"??? I know that perhaps you and others want the "Tittle Tattle", but is anyone in there right mind going to make it that easy to be slapped with a civil lawsuit??? There is a multimillion pound deal here at stake, patience is very obviously wearing thin, amendment after amendment is having to be done to get the CiC deal through. I'm not surprised the big "Back Off" message came through, only surprised it came from my club of forty odd years. Re: the bar/void maybe we should have a poll to see what the "many" think "Profit from every Matchday bar should go to? A: CiC, B: SMFC C: Split Re: your cashflow bit, I think thats just commonsense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilsaint Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Have to say given what I've seen/experienced so far from Posters, Mods, CiC, BoD members, It doesn't portray membership of the CiC in a positive light! As I was saying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 the last of Somner's credibility has now evaporated. I doubt he has managed to dissuade even one person from supporting 10000hours, despite having spent many months trying. Gotta feel for the poor guy, I'm sure it's all well intentioned. What's more, I love the "everybody's picking on me" line in an attempt for sympathy. Grow a set Welcome to the party? Now who else of you big strong strappin lads, safely sat behind a keyboard has an insult or two to throw??? Don't have debate or counterpoint now, we don't want this breaking out into a forum or something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Do you really think I stupid enough to post on a public forum details of communication to me by the BoD requesting I explain "Unfounded Allegations"??? I know that perhaps you and others want the "Tittle Tattle", but is anyone in there right mind going to make it that easy to be slapped with a civil lawsuit??? There is a multimillion pound deal here at stake, patience is very obviously wearing thin, amendment after amendment is having to be done to get the CiC deal through. I'm not surprised the big "Back Off" message came through, only surprised it came from my club of forty odd years. Re: the bar/void maybe we should have a poll to see what the "many" think "Profit from every Matchday bar should go to? A: CiC, B: SMFC C: Split Re: your cashflow bit, I think thats just commonsense I am not interested in your tittle tattle. Nor am I interested whether the club has made contact with you. But if I am honest I don’t believe you and it would appear I am not alone. I find it amusing the ego or fishing trip that you appear to be on. “Unfound allegations”- What ones. None of your posts contain anything other than ramblings “Civil Lawsuit” – I can imagine the The Honourable Lady Bartholomew summing the alias Mr Sommner 9 to the stand. (you seem to forget that you like the rest of us a unknowns typing behind a keyboard. Some of us subscribe to our own censorship and common sense when spouting our bile) If the club made contact with you how do they know who you are and what platform did they use to communicate with you You are correct that there is a “multimillion pound deal here at stake”. SO why are you so worried about the hundreds of pounds of profit that a bar could make. A bar that the current custodians of the club have FAILED to put in place. Using a space that the current custodians of the FAILED to make use of. As for the cashflow thing, it is commonsense. Then why are you going on about it and making such a big issue about it. I am still on the fence with the whole CiC thing. I need both sides of the argument to allow me to make my decision. There is currently only one credible side of the argument being placed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilsaint Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) You've openly refused all opportunities to become informed. You are not interested in the facts, therefore, it would be extremely nye on impossible to "counter" your arguement or debate the subject properly. You have a platform to inform us of the dangers of the CIC, which you are clearly against, yet candy floss has more substance than yourself. Edited April 19, 2012 by civilsaint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted April 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 You've openly refused all opportunities to become informed. You are not interested in the facts, therefore, it would be extremely bye on impossible to "counter" your arguement or debate the subject properly. You have a platform to inform us of the dangers of the CIC, which you are clearly against, yet candy floss has more substance than yourself. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted April 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Don't have debate or counterpoint now, we don't want this breaking out into a forum or something! What exactly is it you would like to debate ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) There seems to be a couple of fans who just don’t get it Reynard fair do’s. These same fans have had every answer put in front of them along with an invite for a private meeting with Richard. Personally I think these fans are share holders and as such can understand their disappointment , however surly they did not expect to make money long term from a football clubs shares. Nothing else can be done to convince these fans to join. You rightly point out the risk factors of two bids. The only one that seems sensible is the fans buy out as no one else will take care of the club better long term.What drives Richard on I don’t know at least he knows the majority are behind him. You're way off the mark with that assumption - I'm happy with my shares, don't want to sell them or trade them for equity in the CiC and expect it'll just be a different set of faces ignoring me at subsequent AGM's assuming the CiC's bid is succesful. I'm agin the CiC and feel I have the right to be sceptical about their bid as they've been the preferred option for well over a year now. Fair enough you can argue it wasn't their fault one of their funders pulled out but that just goes to show that the road is long (with many a winding turn). Next paying back the £1.75M is a long term committment - I'm sure RA said 6-8 years somewhere, not far off a grand for the tenner a month mob if it turns out to be at the longer end of the scale. The CiC is clearly The Golden Path - but just like in Dune it comes with it's own perils. Edited April 19, 2012 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Some people in here could start a fight in an empty room ! Naw we couldnae. Whit you got to say about that baldy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 I am not interested in your tittle tattle. Nor am I interested whether the club has made contact with you. But if I am honest I don’t believe you and it would appear I am not alone. I find it amusing the ego or fishing trip that you appear to be on. “Unfound allegations”- What ones. None of your posts contain anything other than ramblings “Civil Lawsuit” – I can imagine the The Honourable Lady Bartholomew summing the alias Mr Sommner 9 to the stand. (you seem to forget that you like the rest of us a unknowns typing behind a keyboard. Some of us subscribe to our own censorship and common sense when spouting our bile) If the club made contact with you how do they know who you are and what platform did they use to communicate with you You are correct that there is a “multimillion pound deal here at stake”. SO why are you so worried about the hundreds of pounds of profit that a bar could make. A bar that the current custodians of the club have FAILED to put in place. Using a space that the current custodians of the FAILED to make use of. As for the cashflow thing, it is commonsense. Then why are you going on about it and making such a big issue about it. I am still on the fence with the whole CiC thing. I need both sides of the argument to allow me to make my decision. There is currently only one credible side of the argument being placed. Excellent questions there in bold! Now I wonder if anyone hereabouts could shed some light on that??? Any takers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 You've openly refused all opportunities to become informed. You are not interested in the facts, therefore, it would be extremely nye on impossible to "counter" your arguement or debate the subject properly. You have a platform to inform us of the dangers of the CIC, which you are clearly against, yet candy floss has more substance than yourself. WoW you sure you weren't working for the Russian soviet party circa 1949 - 89??? "Become Informed"! I honestly thought that was a consensual event, not an ultimatum. My question to you, rather than your insults to me is Should matchday bar revenue go to the club (SMFC) who's event it is, or the Cic who are obviously piggybacking within the stadium the event takes place in??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 What exactly is it you would like to debate ? Are you off the insults now? pitchfork back in the garage? poor form for a supposed neutral. As above where should matchday profits of bar go Club or cic? presumably if it's just cic'ers using it then a no-brainer??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 WoW you sure you weren't working for the Russian soviet party circa 1949 - 89??? "Become Informed"! I honestly thought that was a consensual event, not an ultimatum. My question to you, rather than your insults to me is Should matchday bar revenue go to the club (SMFC) who's event it is, or the Cic who are obviously piggybacking within the stadium the event takes place in??? School is out for most of us now somner9. The responsibility is to inform yourself. That is done by seeking out information. Even journalists seek out information although how they use it is highly questionable. Repeating the same questions, and having them answered ad nauseum is doing you no favours. If you have some major revelation about the supporters bar then let's here it. For me the real question is a simpler one. With the CIC we get a supporters bar. Without the CIC we don't. If you know different to that then let's hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Are you off the insults now? pitchfork back in the garage? poor form for a supposed neutral. As above where should matchday profits of bar go Club or cic? presumably if it's just cic'ers using it then a no-brainer??? Simple Match day profits should go to whoever owns, runs and manages the bar. Lets turn the question to you. If the match day bar runs at a loss. Who should pick up the tab for that loss The club or the CiC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Simple Match day profits should go to whoever owns, runs and manages the bar. Lets turn the question to you. If the match day bar runs at a loss. Who should pick up the tab for that loss The club or the CiC. Simple! whatever parties are engaged in operating the Matchday bar. (CiC, Club, Community Partners) Although the bulk of that will fall with the party operating what is in essence a franchise within the stadium i.e. Community Partners (as they, we are told are bankrolling it) is that something you agree with? bit like Carr's pie stalls really. They pay an amount to the club to operate in the stadium on matchdays, if they don't flog enough pies they take the hit and eventually the club does too if they feel it not worth continuing in the face of growing losses. However if it can't turn profit on a matchday then the club won't have it around for very long. I would have thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Are you off the insults now? pitchfork back in the garage? poor form for a supposed neutral. As above where should matchday profits of bar go Club or cic? presumably if it's just cic'ers using it then a no-brainer??? It was answered yet again at the meeting last night, and discussed in some detail. You missed an opportunity to be heard in public again last night - to get all your confusd angst out at Richard who spent three hours getting grilled - the people who attended to sign up all appeared to sign up. Despite that people still seem to think trying to post or suggest blah, blah is having an impact other than making themselves look stoopit. The threat to fan ownership is no longer about whether the fans want it or not. It is going to be about a small group of frankly dispicable cnuts trying to wreck the opportunity in the background by exploiting political contacts and trying to derail the funders. Any St Mirren fan voting SNP in the upcoming cnutcil election should be ashamed of themselves, as we are seeing a replication of what Labour and other cnutcillors tried to do to St Mirren fans on the planning issues. Too scared to reveal their position in public about fan ownership they work away in the background, abusing the power the people of Renfrewshire have given them for their own scumbag agenda that is too block fan ownership. A vote for the SNP is a vote against St Mirren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 I'm worried about the bar situation. I need a drink before games and I need a bucket afterwards. I hope 1000000hours are looking into this. I need my void filled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilsaint Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 WoW you sure you weren't working for the Russian soviet party circa 1949 - 89??? "Become Informed"! I honestly thought that was a consensual event, not an ultimatum. My question to you, rather than your insults to me is Should matchday bar revenue go to the club (SMFC) who's event it is, or the Cic who are obviously piggybacking within the stadium the event takes place in??? More waffling of with no substance. Your attempts to derail discussions are becoming more bizarre by they day. Soviets? If you regard my posts yesterday as "insults" then I make no apology. I would suggest that your own insecurity might be the source of that interpretation. I'll reitterate what I said yesterday, you have no desire to become aware of the facts and as such ignore any statements that don't suit your entrenched position. Whether intentional or not you have a clear lack of objectivity. Debate is impossible without some sense of awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 More waffling of with no substance. Your attempts to derail discussions are becoming more bizarre by they day. Soviets? If you regard my posts yesterday as "insults" then I make no apology. I would suggest that your own insecurity might be the source of that interpretation. I'll reitterate what I said yesterday, you have no desire to become aware of the facts and as such ignore any statements that don't suit your entrenched position. Whether intentional or not you have a clear lack of objectivity. Debate is impossible without some sense of awareness. You forgot to add "KILL THE DOCTOR, EXTERMINATE, EXTERMINATE" (Whoooosh radiophonic music) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted April 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Are you off the insults now? pitchfork back in the garage? poor form for a supposed neutral. As above where should matchday profits of bar go Club or cic? presumably if it's just cic'ers using it then a no-brainer??? The question has been answered already. If 10000Hours operates the bar on matchday then the profits of the bar on matchday will go to 10000Hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmurray24 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Somner9 You were not at last nights meeting, that can be seen from another post that you made. Why Don't you attend these meetings you have an open floor to ask all your question? There is going to be another meeting in the next few weeks, Richard will let is all know. Looking forward to meeting you and listening to your views and concerns and by the way I am Alan Murray maybe we can all meet and put a face to somner9 Edited April 20, 2012 by alanmurray24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Somner9 You were not at last nights meeting, that can be seen from another post that you made. Why Don't you attend these meetings you have an open floor to ask all your question? There is going to be another meeting in the next few weeks, Richard will let is all know. Looking forward to meeting you and listening to your views and concerns and by the way I am Alan Murray maybe we can all meet and put a face to somner9 Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 The question has been answered already. If 10000Hours operates the bar on matchday then the profits of the bar on matchday will go to 10000Hours. Thats the answer, but what does the saints support think? If Carr's supply their own equipment for the pie stalls, should they be allowed to use the empty space, keep all the profit, and return nothing to the club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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