The 10000Hours Numbers Explained

[Stuart Dickson]

yes you quoted websites! but not the identities of who is putting up the loan.

The suggestion above is purely yours and sums up all your hate and bile towards all things paisley and st mirren. shame on you a grown man trying to start a playground fight

What are you talking about now Somner? You were the one that claimed in your post #249 that the CIC would lose members and that the CIC membership - which will have an overwhelming majority of members who are St Mirren supporters - would reduce the playing budget and run the team in such a way that fans would disappear. As I said I have a very low opinion of St Mirren supporters in general but clearly it's nowhere near as low as your opinion of them....

[Guest somner9]

There are two funders who make up vast majority of the c £1m lending. I know exactly who they are but since it has not been published anywhere I am assuming that there is a reason why their names haven't been disclosed so I'm not going to list them here.

In addition to those two lenders there is additional funding from SMiSA (pending their members approval) and money from Richard himself.

That's it.

Certainly not suggesting you should disclose confidential (at this point) information on the funders, But it is the minimum anyone should know before they invest.

Up until now we have been led to believe that the funding is somehow coming from a collection of government pots of social funding. Given what you have said obviously that is not the case. Smisa are very reticent to commit, that means Rea as you state and two others are putting up the money.

That is i'll wager a completely different scenario than that to which most subscribed???

[Guest somner9]

What are you talking about now Somner? You were the one that claimed in your post #249 that the CIC would lose members and that the CIC membership - which will have an overwhelming majority of members who are St Mirren supporters - would reduce the playing budget and run the team in such a way that fans would disappear. As I said I have a very low opinion of St Mirren supporters in general but clearly it's nowhere near as low as your opinion of them....

All wrong and twisted as per! and div has kindly highlighted how little you knew about the source of funding! Websites indeed

Sounds like Homer Simpson's understanding

[RickMcD]

Certainly not suggesting you should disclose confidential (at this point) information on the funders, But it is the minimum anyone should know before they invest.

Up until now we have been led to believe that the funding is somehow coming from a collection of government pots of social funding. Given what you have said obviously that is not the case. Smisa are very reticent to commit, that means Rea as you state and two others are putting up the money.

That is i'll wager a completely different scenario than that to which most subscribed???

Let those who have shown interest make up their own minds. Do you think there is some kind of con going on, a giant stitch up? I don't. I honestly believe that REA has the best interests of St.Mirren at heart and as far as I can make out virtually everyone who has met him believes him to be a man of integrity.

If you think it's too risky then leave it alone. Others can make up their own minds about the level of risk and their desire to help our team despite said risks.

[div]

Certainly not suggesting you should disclose confidential (at this point) information on the funders, But it is the minimum anyone should know before they invest.

Up until now we have been led to believe that the funding is somehow coming from a collection of government pots of social funding. Given what you have said obviously that is not the case. Smisa are very reticent to commit, that means Rea as you state and two others are putting up the money.

That is i'll wager a completely different scenario than that to which most subscribed???

The two big lenders are social investment organisations.

In version 1.0 of the model there was a third body that was providing money, it was the one who eventually withdrew causing version 1.0 to fail.

In version 2.0 the place of the third funder has really been taken by the selling consortium themselves who are deferring on a chunk of their payment for two years.

[Guest somner9]

Suppose we'll get the info on the organisations (and their members) funding the loan at some point?

[Guest somner9]

Let those who have shown interest make up their own minds. Do you think there is some kind of con going on, a giant stitch up? I don't. I honestly believe that REA has the best interests of St.Mirren at heart and as far as I can make out virtually everyone who has met him believes him to be a man of integrity.

If you think it's too risky then leave it alone. Others can make up their own minds about the level of risk and their desire to help our team despite said risks.

Silence give authority power it does not deserve!

[RickMcD]

Silence give authority power it does not deserve!

Not 100% sure what you're getting at. To me the only conclusion I can reach is that whatever REA says and puts up, you want it to fail. Remind me what your alternative proposal is,

[Stuart Dickson]

Not 100% sure what you're getting at. To me the only conclusion I can reach is that whatever REA says and puts up, you want it to fail. Remind me what your alternative proposal is,

He said he was a big supporter of Community Ownership, but 24 hours later he says that it's a model that carries a huge risk to the club because it will take all the money away from the playing squad and everyone will cancel their membership. I think it's pretty obvious Somner either has an agenda or you are 100% correct Rick. What's depressing is he really is the best of the anti-10000hours crop.

[div]

Suppose we'll get the info on the organisations (and their members) funding the loan at some point?

Yes, I assume once the deal is all done. Can't see why it would be a secret. This is the squence of events as I understand it;

The situation currently is that the two funders have agreed in principle to provide the funding based on the business plan that 10000Hours have presented them with.

Now 10000Hours have to prove they have the actual number of individuals and 87Club Members that they have projected in said business plan.

Once they have reached those numbers and have firm commitment in the shape of direct debits etc they will then go back to the funding bodies for final approval and assuming that is forthcoming they will draw down the money.

The funders money, plus money from Richard himself and (hopefully) the SMiSA fund would then be paid to the selling consortium and in return the majority shareholding of the club would transfer from the current holding company (Douglas St Ltd) to 10000Hours.

10000Hours would then start taking direct debits from individuals and gathering in the 87Club funds. This money would be used over the 2 years to pay back the "funding gap" I outlined in the opening post on this thread ie; The difference between the selling price and the amount that was paid on day one.

After that period of two years the membership subs and hopefully by that time many other revenue streams, start to pay back the loans that were drawn down.

The hope of course is that 10000Hours can generate a lot of extra revenue both for itself (to pay back the loans quicker or to use to make more money) and the football club. I don't profess to know all the detail behind that.

[ronaldo]

The whole takeover is based on hope rather than sound financiall planning. we need, say 1000-1500 fans to be giving a direct debit every month, we need 87 pledges of 3000 quid again for a few years just to clear the debt the takeover will bring, now times are hard and we as fans are already looking hard at how we spend our money now, personally i pick and choose my games as i have a familly that i support, at the moment i have given my details for the Direct debit, however if i attend 2 homes games a month with my son and have the direct debit that's 70 quid a month, should my situation change i either stop the DD or miss a game, either way the club loses money

there will be guys out there who are stretching there money as much as possible to support the club and at some point something may have to give, my point is in these financial times and with no sign of things getting any better any time soon, is it fair to expect the fans to stump up no matter what, i am slightly worried about the takeover as if we don't get the pledges in when needed then who fills that gap?

[RickMcD]

The whole takeover is based on hope rather than sound financiall planning. we need, say 1000-1500 fans to be giving a direct debit every month, we need 87 pledges of 3000 quid again for a few years just to clear the debt the takeover will bring, now times are hard and we as fans are already looking hard at how we spend our money now, personally i pick and choose my games as i have a familly that i support, at the moment i have given my details for the Direct debit, however if i attend 2 homes games a month with my son and have the direct debit that's 70 quid a month, should my situation change i either stop the DD or miss a game, either way the club loses money

there will be guys out there who are stretching there money as much as possible to support the club and at some point something may have to give, my point is in these financial times and with no sign of things getting any better any time soon, is it fair to expect the fans to stump up no matter what, i am slightly worried about the takeover as if we don't get the pledges in when needed then who fills that gap?

I don't know what happens if the hoped for numbers aren't reached but presumably it will all be called off. I don't think it's something to stick a plaster over. With all the negativity about it has to be a possibility. The spectre of newco rangers may visit us again.

[Stuart Dickson]

I don't know what happens if the hoped for numbers aren't reached but presumably it will all be called off. I don't think it's something to stick a plaster over. With all the negativity about it has to be a possibility. The spectre of newco rangers may visit us again.

REA has said already that if they don't get the targeted number of members they will make one last full and final offer to the consortium based on what they have. It would then be up to the consortium to either reject or accept it. Obviously the more members there are the closer they can get to the £2m asking price, the more chance there is of the bid being accepted.

This is the thing though isn't it. If 10000hours fails in it's bid what's left? You've got a split boardroom which is on the brink of civil war. Majority shareholders desperate to get out, and scorned shareholders who would be relieved their shares hadn't become worthless, possibly now looking to flog them to anyone before someone else manages to get together a group of supporters to try another fan ownership model that would freeze them out. Who knows who or what could land up with a majority shareholding in the future.

I can't see anything negative at all in a community ownership model. It's either going to be good, brilliant or f**king superb depending on the talents and ambitions of the people involved.

[buddiecat]

Aye because you'd never be out of it.

possibly - because they would need someone who could keep his eyes off the ladies and on the punters

[St. Sid]

I think that the drop off being predicted by the miseryguts types is well off the mark. What we will see is people signing up to a direct debit. Since people submitted their forms there has been almost zero cancellations. Companies prefer direct debits because the very nature of them means people are less likely to stop paying.

I think there is actually a very strong case for the numbers to go up. I reckon this will happen once all the information is officially out there. When it becomes a reality rather than a prospect people will want to get involved. We have also begun at a time of financial uncertainty......financial confidence couldn't be any lower and yet the numbers are there. Moving into the longer term, young Saints fans will complete university, college, move into their first jobs, start to have more dispobale income and we will see those that cannot afford to join now get involved. Guys fairly early in their careers / fledgling business owners will also see their fortunes develop and will look to get involved in future 87 club memberships.

If anything the income should increase. However, as ever REA has been pretty miserable with his forecasts for CIC / Co-op income. Not a bad thing in the long run.

[reborn saint]

I think that the drop off being predicted by the miseryguts types is well off the mark. What we will see is people signing up to a direct debit. Since people submitted their forms there has been almost zero cancellations. Companies prefer direct debits because the very nature of them means people are less likely to stop paying.

I think there is actually a very strong case for the numbers to go up. I reckon this will happen once all the information is officially out there. When it becomes a reality rather than a prospect people will want to get involved. We have also begun at a time of financial uncertainty......financial confidence couldn't be any lower and yet the numbers are there. Moving into the longer term, young Saints fans will complete university, college, move into their first jobs, start to have more dispobale income and we will see those that cannot afford to join now get involved. Guys fairly early in their careers / fledgling business owners will also see their fortunes develop and will look to get involved in future 87 club memberships.

If anything the income should increase. However, as ever REA has been pretty miserable with his forecasts for CIC / Co-op income. Not a bad thing in the long run.

As usual you are full of it. The cost of buying the club has to come down. We need to know the purchace price and with the Sky deal in question where do we stand?.......£1Million is a fair price for me and anything more and i'm out.

[St. Sid]

As usual you are full of it. The cost of buying the club has to come down. We need to know the purchace price and with the Sky deal in question where do we stand?.......£1Million is a fair price for me and anything more and i'm out.

That time of the week again...you'll be fine by Friday.

The deal coming down in price at this time would be disastrous for SMFC. You clearly don't understand the mechanics of this.

[reborn saint]

That time of the week again...you'll be fine by Friday.

The deal coming down in price at this time would be disastrous for SMFC. You clearly don't understand the mechanics of this.

If you say so ...But our club is worth nothing.

Edited April 24, 2012 by reborn saint

[St. Sid]

If you say so ...But our club is worth nothing.

Disgraceful comment...shame on you!

[reborn saint]

Disgraceful comment...shame on you!

You know I meant in the financial sense,,,,,....And shame on you is my line ......thief!

[St. Sid]

You know I meant in the financial sense.

Still a disgraceful comment.

[reborn saint]

Still a disgraceful comment.

Yea I'm a disgrace. Never supported Cel*ic though

Edited April 24, 2012 by reborn saint

[steve_the_saint]

If you say so ...But our club is worth nothing.

Our club is worth whatever anyone is willing to pay for it. And any tom Dick or harry chancer will be happy to pay 1m quid for a premier league club.

That is the reason the price has been set so high, to ensure the buyer is genuine and serious.

[BoWSaint]

I am under the impression that my tenner a month is essentially money spent, rather than invested i.e. I don't expect to ever get my tenner back. And I am fine with this. In the future years, if everything is going fantastic for TTH then I guess a situation could arise where we could vote in a sort of cash back scheme but I would probably vote in favour of my share just going into the club. Whatever happens, it is a tenner a month and I can live without it without any real change in lifestyle so the risk to me and my family is minimal.

I am not overly suspicious of the funders supplying the £1m to get this rolling but I would be interested to hear what kind of percentage interest they have agreed upon so we could try to get some more accurate predictions on when this loan will be paid off and what the payment structure will be e.g. is there a minimum monthly payment. The sooner the funding gap is bridged and this loan is paid off, then we will start to see what can be done with a thriving CiC.