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The 10000Hours Numbers Explained


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Guest somner9

Because you seem interested in getting answers to your questions. Why not ask the questions to the folk that may be able to give you answers? Maybe the folk that attend these meetings need to here them too? You'd be doing everyone a favour.

Why, and what purpose would it serve for me to attend a pro cic event, if i don't believe in this hashed up Cic/co-op?

Guess what i'm not putting in a full and final bid for r*ngers because????

If others have concerns as you say then they should voice them. "Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence... L, Da Vinci"

Edited by somner9
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Why, and what purpose would it serve for me to attend a pro cic event, if i don't believe in this hashed up Cic/co-op?

Guess what i'm not putting in a full and final bid for r*ngers because????

Who says you have to be "pro CiC to attend? Cant you go there and ask them directly what you are asking here? I'm not pro CiC, I havent signed up to anything either but when folk have questions to ask surely the best folk to ask are the ones operating the CiC? Are you scared you'll be shouted down or something? Surely asking the questions you want answered before anything happens regarding the CiC would be the best time to do it instead of griping away on here to folk that are maybe wondering the same stuff that you are but aren't as articulate. You'd be offering a service. Maybe a vital one.

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Guest somner9

Who says you have to be "pro CiC to attend? Cant you go there and ask them directly what you are asking here? I'm not pro CiC, I havent signed up to anything either but when folk have questions to ask surely the best folk to ask are the ones operating the CiC? Are you scared you'll be shouted down or something? Surely asking the questions you want answered before anything happens regarding the CiC would be the best time to do it instead of griping away on here to folk that are maybe wondering the same stuff that you are but aren't as articulate. You'd be offering a service. Maybe a vital one.

I've asked them what i wanted to know, don't like the answers/potential outcomes for my club. See no reason to give oxygen to their campaign, especially as the BoD have marked my card over my views.

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Thats the answer, but what does the saints support think?

They probably think;

The space isn't generating any income at all at the moment

The club has had 3 years to fit it out and develop it and has not done so

That the 10000Hours partners are going to fit it out at no cost to the club

That 10000Hours will staff the bar on matchdays

That it will be used by 10000Hours members on matchdays

That the club will be able to generate revenue at other times using the facility

So in summary that it is a sensible and good deal all round for the football club with little or no risk I'd reckon.

If Carr's supply their own equipment for the pie stalls, should they be allowed to use the empty space, keep all the profit ?

I would imagine that is exactly what they do. The return to the club would be return for a fixed license fee. Are you really suggesting that the income the football club gets from catering depends on how many pies that are sold ?

10000Hours will be paying peppercorn rent back to the club for a space that they will fit out, and the clubs return will be the ability to use it for function events that it cannot cater for well at the moment.

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I've asked them what i wanted to know, don't like the answers/potential outcomes for my club. See no reason to give oxygen to their campaign, especially as the BoD have marked my card over my views.

Think this is one of your main problems.

St.Mirren isn't YOUR club. It's OUR club.

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I've asked them what i wanted to know, don't like the answers/potential outcomes for my club. See no reason to give oxygen to their campaign, especially as the BoD have marked my card over my views.

Somner9 - please excuse my ignorance but I still don't really understand what the BoD have done/threatened to do regarding views voiced on an unofficial forum. I too was contacted by then BoD over comments I made about the GLS&McGeoch split and was invited for a chat. PM if you prefer.

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So are you seriously saying that if 10000Hours bid goes through and some subscribers pledges withdraw support from the CIC/ Co-op then St Mirren, with zero bank debt, up to date on tax payments etc will suffer the same fate as r*ngers: under investigation for around 20 years of double contracts, illegal use of EBT scheme and tax debts of up to £93m and other non-tax debts of around £40m and rising... and in administration now and facing possible liquidation?

Scaremongering perhaps?

Is it not a whole lot more likely that if pledgers catch a cold, as you put it, then the leners will either 1) renegotiate the length of the loans or 2) sell the 52% majority shareholding that 10000Hours would own, and assuming they have made decent headway into repayments after a year or two you are looking at the lenders slapping a lower asking price on the 52% shareholding than the consortium did?

Please explain how you would see 10000Hours defaulting on payments to lenders equaling St Mirren FC entering administration or even facing liquidation.

Should the subscriptions and additional revenue fail to reach the required levels then the co-op will be vulnerable, leaving the majority shareholding in the club available to anyone who wants to take it over, maybe r*ngers, maybe Ken, maybe a local ned

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Guest somner9

They probably think;

The space isn't generating any income at all at the moment

The club has had 3 years to fit it out and develop it and has not done so

That the 10000Hours partners are going to fit it out at no cost to the club

That 10000Hours will staff the bar on matchdays

That it will be used by 10000Hours members on matchdays

That the club will be able to generate revenue at other times using the facility

So in summary that it is a sensible and good deal all round for the football club with little or no risk I'd reckon.

Let's leave the thinking to the MANY to decide

I would imagine that is exactly what they do. The return to the club would be return for a fixed license fee. Are you really suggesting that the income the football club gets from catering depends on how many pies that are sold ?

10000Hours will be paying peppercorn rent back to the club for a space that they will fit out, and the clubs return will be the ability to use it for function events that it cannot cater for well at the moment.

Exactly Carr's fit out with the equipment they require and pay the club for the business opportunity on a matchday. same as many, many other clubs/venues.

But 10000 hours want to take advantage of a matchday business opportunity, but return NOTHING to the club for an undetermined period of time (only info suggested, at least two years before returns to the club) hello! If i were Carr's i'd be after that deal too!

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What happens to the match-day bar if we have a run of games on a Sunday because teams in the SPL start becoming successful in Europa League?

Will there not be a conflict of interests with one of the key 10000Hours partners who I believe will be investing in the fit-out of the void and need to use it on a Sunday?

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Guest somner9

Think this is one of your main problems.

St.Mirren isn't YOUR club. It's OUR club.

So a lifelong saints fan can't talk about "My Club" in discussion. You might want to rethink that, unless you are going to instruct all saints fans what the correct "Style" is when they discuss their love of the club among friends and fellow supporters

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I've asked them what i wanted to know, don't like the answers/potential outcomes for my club. See no reason to give oxygen to their campaign, especially as the BoD have marked my card over my views.

In that case what is your preferred option and why isn't THAT being carried out? Maybe you are targeting the wrong audience? If the consortium want to sell, who is looking to buy, what are the options? McGeochs outfit seem to be the only other show in town, what are THEIR plans. What do YOU actually want? What ownership model do you see as being less of a risk and why?

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Guest somner9

In that case what is your preferred option and why isn't THAT being carried out? Maybe you are targeting the wrong audience? If the consortium want to sell, who is looking to buy, what are the options? McGeochs outfit seem to be the only other show in town, what are THEIR plans. What do YOU actually want? What ownership model do you see as being less of a risk and why?

the current one until a credible one is proposed.

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But 10000 hours want to take advantage of a matchday business opportunity, but return NOTHING to the club for an undetermined period of time (only info suggested, at least two years before returns to the club) hello! If i were Carr's i'd be after that deal too!

Apart from the ability to make use of the function area whenever they like outside of matchday you mean ?

A facility that will have cost them £0 to develop !

You might think that is "NOTHING". I think that is a great deal for the club personally.

Funerals, Birthday parties, Private functions. All the sort of events that the club is currently unwilling to entertain at the moment could be hosted in that space and generate new revenue for the football club.

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So a lifelong saints fan can't talk about "My Club" in discussion. You might want to rethink that, unless you are going to instruct all saints fans what the correct "Style" is when they discuss their love of the club among friends and fellow supporters

Let's leave the thinking to the MANY to decide

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the current one until a credible one is proposed.

A split board with the majority shareholders wanting to sell?

That's untenable in the short term never mind longer term.

What, in your opinion, is a credible option and where is this option likely to come from?

Edited by Reynard
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Guest somner9

Apart from the ability to make use of the function area whenever they like outside of matchday you mean ?

A facility that will have cost them £0 to develop !

You might think that is "NOTHING". I think that is a great deal for the club personally.

Funerals, Birthday parties, Private functions. All the sort of events that the club is currently unwilling to entertain at the moment could be hosted in that space and generate new revenue for the football club.

Hmmm so 10000 hours and Community Partners (like we used to call it a Marathon bar, now it's snickers, same for kibble) will give the club first dibs to book out the space on all premium weekend slots?

Another point if 10000 hours have a 'legends' night in the bar I take it that the only body not getting paid will be the club! said legends are there to talk/joke/regale stories of, who are the reason said legends are getting paid for the night?

I get why the community kibbles putting up the money to fit the bar out get their slice, and yes perhaps if 10000 hours organise it theirs too!

But the club on a matchday or an event like that gets nothing for the foreseeable future?

a matchday that draws up to 6000 people, ave 4000 twenty odd times a year! be nice to see 10000 hours or their community kibbles draw those numbers to the stadium

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Guest somner9

Let's leave the thinking to the MANY to decide

Good idea!

does anyone object to another saints fan referring to st mirren as 'My Club' when discussing their love and support of all things st mirren?

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Hmmm so 10000 hours and Community Partners (like we used to call it a Marathon bar, now it's snickers, same for kibble) will give the club first dibs to book out the space on all premium weekend slots?

Another point if 10000 hours have a 'legends' night in the bar I take it that the only body not getting paid will be the club! said legends are there to talk/joke/regale stories of, who are the reason said legends are getting paid for the night?

I get why the community kibbles putting up the money to fit the bar out get their slice, and yes perhaps if 10000 hours organise it theirs too!

But the club on a matchday or an event like that gets nothing for the foreseeable future?

a matchday that draws up to 6000 people, ave 4000 twenty odd times a year! be nice to see 10000 hours or their community kibbles draw those numbers to the stadium

I read this post a few times and still don't understand a word of it to be honest.

The biggest concern you have is the division of takings from a bar, which currently doesn't exist ?

Seriously ?

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Good idea!

does anyone object to another saints fan referring to st mirren as 'My Club' when discussing their love and support of all things st mirren?

Stuart Dickson agrees, lol.

Nuff said really !

The club belongs to ALL of the supporters. It is OUR club.

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Guest somner9

I read this post a few times and still don't understand a word of it to be honest.

Really?

Janet & John version

  • club to give up all its premium business matchday opportunities to 10000 hours & partners to make money from bar
  • will 10000 hours & partners give up 20 odd premium weekend business opportunities so the club can use the bar?
  • 10000 hours run events like "saints legends dinner", even though it wouldnr work without the club, 10000 hours and partners keep all that revenue too?
  • club only party in the trinity with 10000 hours and partners that won't get any revenue from use of stadium space and crowds for undetermined period of time
  • club can draw up to 6000 peeps, ave approx 4000 peeps 20 plus times a year, but 10000 hours/partners want to be the sole profiters from use of bar on these days!
  • will 10000 hours/partners reciprocate and pull 4000 plus potential customers to their events?

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Comparing football fans with the customers of a supermarket or a petrol station shows how little you understand about being a football supporter.

If the goods on offer at Tesco aren't to my liking I'll go to Sainsbury's, or Morrisons, or Asda.

If the petrol at Shell is too expensive I'll go to Esso, or BP.......

If St.Mirren are shite then I'll still be a St.Mirren supporter. The emotional attachment to the club is there forever.

Even you can't stay away from the club !

My club, your club, our club.

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Really?

Janet & John version

  • club to give up all its premium business matchday opportunities to 10000 hours & partners to make money from bar
  • will 10000 hours & partners give up 20 odd premium weekend business opportunities so the club can use the bar?
  • 10000 hours run events like "saints legends dinner", even though it wouldnr work without the club, 10000 hours and partners keep all that revenue too?
  • club only party in the trinity with 10000 hours and partners that won't get any revenue from use of stadium space and crowds for undetermined period of time
  • club can draw up to 6000 peeps, ave approx 4000 peeps 20 plus times a year, but 10000 hours/partners want to be the sole profiters from use of bar on these days!
  • will 10000 hours/partners reciprocate and pull 4000 plus potential customers to their events?

Still don't understand the point you are trying to make so I'm going to stop trying.

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Really?

Janet & John version

  • club to give up all its premium business matchday opportunities to 10000 hours & partners to make money from bar - the Club already have premium matchday business in it's corporate hospitality suite - they are not being asked to give this up.
  • will 10000 hours & partners give up 20 odd premium weekend business opportunities so the club can use the bar? Why should they? They have paid to fit the bar out. The club could have done this themselves but have chosen not to.
  • 10000 hours run events like "saints legends dinner", even though it wouldnr work without the club, 10000 hours and partners keep all that revenue too? If the club want o organise the 'Legends Dinners' then they would receive the money - from what I've understood so far, they could even use the bar if they wanted, but they have to do the organising and staffing themselves. If 10000hrs do it, they keep the dosh. Simples.
  • club only party in the trinity with 10000 hours and partners that won't get any revenue from use of stadium space and crowds for undetermined period of time becasue the debt has to be paid off first - 10000hrs wont be 'making any money' either - they'll be paying others with it.
  • club can draw up to 6000 peeps, ave approx 4000 peeps 20 plus times a year, but 10000 hours/partners want to be the sole profiters from use of bar on these days! Only till the debt is paid off, then it goes to a vote as to what happens with the profits, etc. How busy do you expect this bar to be? 6000 on a saturday os going to make it rather difficult to get served.
  • will 10000 hours/partners reciprocate and pull 4000 plus potential customers to their events? Eh?
  • EDIT: I should have said "I bloody hope so cause then the debt will be paid off quicker"

Is it just me, or does what started of as a decent thread make anyone else want to run screaming from the room? bangin.gif

Edited by Eddy
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