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Smisa Withdraws 'in Principle' Support Of 10000 Hours Proposal


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Guest somner9

SMiSA have been around for a few years. I actually quite like what they have done. The raising of cash to buy shares hasn't really had the desired impact in terms of fan representation on the BoD; however they have done some great stuff in terms of engaging with the club such as the Open Day when Danny joined and of course Saints Aid, which is sadly no more. I dunno if the club taking that in house has fuelled the rift or whether that was agreed by both parties.

Attaching somner9 to anything is pretty dumb after he blew his credability by refusing to engage with the club. However, SMiSA appear to be very reticent to engage on the Internet - in fact they slated the online debate in one of their programme articles. Although I think they made a couple of good points in the context of that - one being the anonymity of the posters attacking the CIC / co-op.

SMiSA taking over the fan ownership process is interesting in that they only have £50K. However if they could access the £1M of social funding that could be the way to go. However, I don't see what difference that would make in terms of the risk to SMFC. Would you have a third party owning 52% of the shares...what happens if the fans drop off....where is the change in risk? There isn't any is there?

I reckon that SMiSA's £50K would disappear very quickly just putting together the deal for club and the process for the sale of the share and the legal bollox with the social funders. The 10000 Hours chaps have already taken the hit for that.

Perhaps SMiSA have a business plan up their sleeve for fan ownership. I am sure we would all be interested in an alternative to the CIC / Co-op that doesn't involved rangers. A SMiSA led bid would be a welcome alternative to some dodgy Liverpool characters. I would be surprised if SMiSA are even thinking that way.

I do however think that shoulod the CIC / Co-op begin to finally gather pace and actually progress to the next step we will see some of the St Mirren "groups" start to vie for power within the club. I reckon the 87 Club commercial bawbag types will look to have some representation othe BoD, and I would be surprised if SMiSA didn't have similar designs on a default BoD place. At the moment I haven't seen anything that actually states categorically how SMFC BoD will be put together. For me that is quite a big question.

Whilst I would hope the members of the SMFC BoD are subject to skill tests. I would expect fans ownership of the 52% shareholding to mean that the CIC members would be deciding who populates the SMFC BoD.

A very long winded way of saying you agree with me, but lack the confidence to go public as your credibilty rates as highly as Craig Whytes popularity in Govanthumbup2.gif

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Guest somner9

could the answer be that SMISA has now matured and and has developed it's own identity and it could possibly be vehicle for fan ownership? If SMISA can generate a wad of 50k with so few members then is it possible for the 10000 hours DD subscribers to sign up for a similar amount to SMISA, who then strike a deal to buy over the consortium (and anybody else's, if they want to) shareholding in installments?

Just a thought, but the gradual acquisition of shares seems a better method as any failure to keep delivering for the club would see a pause in contributions coming in. Somner raises, and exagerates, some good points about some of the community groups. i'd like to see them come in, influnence, contribute to and share in the development of the club, but not be able to control it or use it as a cash generator for their own ends. Perhaps the uncertainty can be overcome by a model that provides some protection against some of his fears.

exactly if they put money into the club, and furthered their own agenda around SMP fine by me. At present the Kibble bloke is practically wetting himself at the chance to spark off their big venture into the hospitality industry, at our club's expense. personally I think the kibbles bloke should be locked up! 1eye.gif

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SMiSA have been around for a few years. I actually quite like what they have done. The raising of cash to buy shares hasn't really had the desired impact in terms of fan representation on the BoD; however they have done some great stuff in terms of engaging with the club such as the Open Day when Danny joined and of course Saints Aid, which is sadly no more. I dunno if the club taking that in house has fuelled the rift or whether that was agreed by both parties.

Just on Saints Aid so that everyone is aware and in no doubt - that was basically agreed by both parties. Unfortunately we weren't able to commit to doing Saints Aid this year so the club decided to run the fans game event in-house instead. At a personal level was glad to see the club do that as it is something of an easy hit to raise money for Youth Development & hope everyone that played in it enjoyed it. :)

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Just on Saints Aid so that everyone is aware and in no doubt - that was basically agreed by both parties. Unfortunately we weren't able to commit to doing Saints Aid this year so the club decided to run the fans game event in-house instead. At a personal level was glad to see the club do that as it is something of an easy hit to raise money for Youth Development & hope everyone that played in it enjoyed it. smile.png

Great to hear Dave. That one worried me a bit especially as you guys had done so well running it over the years.

I was having a look at the pledgers list and there's a few of the key people in SMiSA all down as pledgers. Has anyone withdrawn their direct debits as yet?

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Stuart, the reservations are outlined clearly in the OP. Despite repeated requests for info to allow us to make an informed decision on investing 50k, we've been largely ignored. It's not a Smisa ego trip, the 50k is straight from members pockets over the past ten years and fundraising. Asking for clarity is not unreasonable and the refusal to provide it stinks IMHO. Just my view, i'm not the spokesman.

I welcome the fact that St.Mirren fans have the opportunity to question and (constructively) criticise the current move to buy our Club. As long as the questions/criticism is reasonable and not based on rumourmongering, wild speculation and just downright dislike for the sake of it, it is good thing and acts as a check on any possible gerrymandering.

10000hrs have been asked many questions and have attempted at least IMHO to answer those questions honestly - although a bit vaguely at times. The PR could be better. Now 10000hrs has been accused by SMISA of not providing requested information.

As a CIC DD pledger, I would like to know from SMISA: What information (or lack of it) is it, that I should be investigating?

Specifically,I would like to know exactly what SMISA asked for and what was not forthcoming.

Personally, I am a bit disappointed in the numbers that have pledged so far. The message to the off-line Saints fans does not really seem to be getting through. It also seems that some Saints fans are still hoping for some Black Knight to come alomg buy the Consortium out and invest some cash in the Club. IMO that is not going to happen, and even if it did, we all know now, what that could mean...

I am quite happy to invest the princely sum of £10 a month in a scheme providing fan ownership that I believe, is best for the future of our Club.

What Smisa found is what is available to anyone. 10000 hours do not have any contigencies should there projection drop below target. Which in this economic environment is always likely. In short they dont know what they will do if something changes. Add to that a lot of the funding is now coming from organisations whose sole objective is to make money out of SMP whilst returning nothing to the club.

this is not about the profit on a matchday pint, but about substantial facilities at SMP that these organisations will dominate and reap substantial reward from. The BoD should hang their heads in shame for trying to leave a legacy where even the proposer doesn't know what he's doing.

It's all turned a bit Craig 'Whyte'1eye.gif

Somner. When did you become a member of SMISA? Also the last two lines of your post is definitely below the belt and uncalled for.

Edited by Vambo57
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Just on Saints Aid so that everyone is aware and in no doubt - that was basically agreed by both parties. Unfortunately we weren't able to commit to doing Saints Aid this year so the club decided to run the fans game event in-house instead. At a personal level was glad to see the club do that as it is something of an easy hit to raise money for Youth Development & hope everyone that played in it enjoyed it. :)

It's none of my business but .......why where smisa unable to support Saints Aid this year?

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It's none of my business but .......why where smisa unable to support Saints Aid this year?

I'm 99% sure that I was told at Saints Aid last season that this would be the last time SMISA would be running it. It was being handed over to the club and the CIC.

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Guest somner9

I welcome the fact that St.Mirren fans have the opportunity to question and (constructively) criticise the current move to buy our Club. As long as the questions/criticism is reasonable and not based on rumourmongering, wild speculation and just downright dislike for the sake of it, it is good thing and acts as a check on any possible gerrymandering.

10000hrs have been asked many questions and have attempted at least IMHO to answer those questions honestly - although a bit vaguely at times. The PR could be better. Now 10000hrs has been accused by SMISA of not providing requested information.

As a CIC DD pledger, I would like to know from SMISA: What information (or lack of it) is it, that I should be investigating?

Specifically,I would like to know exactly what SMISA asked for and what was not forthcoming.

Personally, I am a bit disappointed in the numbers that have pledged so far. The message to the off-line Saints fans does not really seem to be getting through. It also seems that some Saints fans are still hoping for some Black Knight to come alomg buy the Consortium out and invest some cash in the Club. IMO that is not going to happen, and even if it did, we all know now, what that could mean...

I am quite happy to invest the princely sum of £10 a month in a scheme providing fan ownership that I believe, is best for the future of our Club.

Somner. When did you become a member of SMISA? Also the last two lines of your post is definitely below the belt and uncalled for.

Errrr never been a smisa member... why? Re last two lines my honest opinion and obseravtions of an organisation that has failed to deliver as yet anything it set out to do. two years and counting. sheez even rangers managed to get a buyer in 4 days last week.

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I'm 99% sure that I was told at Saints Aid last season that this would be the last time SMISA would be running it. It was being handed over to the club and the CIC.

Remember that now. I thought it might just have been a reaction to the club messing them about on the day with strips.

I attended one of the SMiSA meeting way back in the dim and distant past when the CIC was being presented to their members. There was a vote at the time and it was always unanimous support. There were a couple of noisy dissenters. If they've kept up the noise and 10000 Hours have been ignoring the chaps trying to support it then you can see how the difficulties have arisen within SMiSA.

It is a bit like on here....somner9 is ranting any old shite like a mad man - it is all conspiracy and bile. 10000 Hours have depended on people like Vambo57 to make the response. We have an easier decision to make as it's our money. SMiSA have a trickier situation as it is a large group's money. And like us they are right to want to hold off on committing their cash until they have all the information. I don't see why anyone would have an issue with that.

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Guest somner9

The club decided they wanted to run Saints Aid games a number of seasons ago.

At one of the official club dinners two of the auction prizes were the home and away team captains. A week before the event was scheduled the club contacted the SMiSA committee asking them to step in and take over. Needless to say this request was turned down as it was impossible to arrange. I believe this was the last full season we were at Love St.

At another Saints Aid the home and away managers were to be Gus and Andy. As reward for the team staying up the club booked a holiday for playing and management staff on the same day the fans game was to take place. SMiSA were left with little over 24 hours to get replacements for the managers. In stepped Stevie McGarry and Ricky Gillies with no help from the club.

Regardless of anyone's personal views on SMiSA, the committee have been there since day 1 for 10years. IMO they have been taken for granted by at times by club officials.

They have achieved a great deal during that time and although they are only representative of a small part of the support, the fact that the group has the 10th largest shareholding is testament to the tremendous work they have carried out. That shareholding and £50k fund is down to the membership fees that have been raised through subscription not

any other events like Saints Aid.

This year at saint for a day the coaching staff had to move heaven and earth to get the strips, seems there wasn't much Co-operation by some peeps at the club claiming they are born again co-operators. If you think 10000 hours give a monkeys about the fans and football ask them why the fans were the last group they spoke too when trying to organise their chaotic takeover proposals.

They would be much happier if the inconvience of the fans wasn't there. The signs are there, you just need to open your eyes, hell they don't even communicate.

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I'm 99% sure that I was told at Saints Aid last season that this would be the last time SMISA would be running it. It was being handed over to the club and the CIC.

Yes that's true David. SMiSA were contacted about running a Saints Aid again this year though and my guess is in ordinary circumstances we would have done so, but unfortunately due to a combination of time constraints and personal circumstances making people unable to commit their time to organising it, we simply weren't in any position to take it on.

What Slash has said about past events is sadly accurate. As someone who has helped out with the auction in past years I was raging about the manager issue that year, and massive thanks have to go to Ricky & Steven for agreeing to step in at little/no notice. Even last year we were presented with a bizarre combination of shirt numbers despite folk bidding on specific ones and for a worrying amount of time, no-one knew where the balls were. This was added to not being able to do the post-match presentations in the hospitality lounge for, if memory serves, no great reason - instead being left with the players lounge (just a small room which about 40 people were trying to cram into).

If there were problems at this year's event then it really wouldn't surprise me given past history but hopefully the club will learn from any such mistakes and look to put them right in future for everyone's benefit. All in a fans game is a great event with everyone winning out of it and the positives far outweigh any negatives there might be.

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Yes that's true David. SMiSA were contacted about running a Saints Aid again this year though and my guess is in ordinary circumstances we would have done so, but unfortunately due to a combination of time constraints and personal circumstances making people unable to commit their time to organising it, we simply weren't in any position to take it on.

What Slash has said about past events is sadly accurate. As someone who has helped out with the auction in past years I was raging about the manager issue that year, and massive thanks have to go to Ricky & Steven for agreeing to step in at little/no notice. Even last year we were presented with a bizarre combination of shirt numbers despite folk bidding on specific ones and for a worrying amount of time, no-one knew where the balls were. This was added to not being able to do the post-match presentations in the hospitality lounge for, if memory serves, no great reason - instead being left with the players lounge (just a small room which about 40 people were trying to cram into).

If there were problems at this year's event then it really wouldn't surprise me given past history but hopefully the club will learn from any such mistakes and look to put them right in future for everyone's benefit. All in a fans game is a great event with everyone winning out of it and the positives far outweigh any negatives there might be.

Cheers Dave,

I felt sorry for SMISA last year. It's a great event but you were messed about quite a bit, didn't spoil the day though.

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Cheers Dave,

I felt sorry for SMISA last year. It's a great event but you were messed about quite a bit, didn't spoil the day though.

Couldn't agree more - I doubt anybody signs up to get a shirt. It is all about the match day experience - dressing roooms, out on the pitch, fellow Buds supporting you when your dying on yer arse after a couple of lungbursting warm up exercises.

The strips / balls were a bit of a shambles last year.....but the day was top class.

SMFC doesn't do well organised........although the supporters buses were always tickety-boo.

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Guest somner9

Couldn't agree more - I doubt anybody signs up to get a shirt. It is all about the match day experience - dressing roooms, out on the pitch, fellow Buds supporting you when your dying on yer arse after a couple of lungbursting warm up exercises.

The strips / balls were a bit of a shambles last year.....but the day was top class.

SMFC doesn't do well organised........although the supporters buses were always tickety-boo.

Guess why all the buds, youth teams, mums & dads, weans, Wag's and mates couldn't get into hospitality at saint for a day, for a beer, warm cuppa etc..?

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Guess why all the buds, youth teams, mums & dads, weans, Wag's and mates couldn't get into hospitality at saint for a day, for a beer, warm cuppa etc..?

Was it because someone was paying for its use, and just like the year before the Saints for a Day people used the players lounge. When I went down for the Street Stuff Olympics the Hospitality Suite was in use as part of that event. My understanding that the street stuff event was on straight after Saints for a Day, just as the street stuff football event was on straight after Saints Aid last year, which was why we didn't get to use it then.

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Guest somner9

Was it because someone was paying for its use, and just like the year before the Saints for a Day people used the players lounge. When I went down for the Street Stuff Olympics the Hospitality Suite was in use as part of that event. My understanding that the street stuff event was on straight after Saints for a Day, just as the street stuff football event was on straight after Saints Aid last year, which was why we didn't get to use it then.

Well if 10000 hours ever actually manage to do what they havent done for two years hell mend ye when it nosedives into the brown smelly stuff. No one will want to get within 10000 miles of that pongthumbdown.gif

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Well if 10000 hours ever actually manage to do what they havent done for two years hell mend ye when it nosedives into the brown smelly stuff. No one will want to get within 10000 miles of that pongthumbdown.gif

That's what I don't get about your repeated attacks on the fan ownership plans. As you point out it is very much an "if" as to whether 10000 Hours will get this to the next stage, let alone when. And yet you expound a vast amount of time and energy trying to undermines their aims with the sum total of zero direct debits being pulled. There will be plenty of time during what is still going to be a long and dull process to drill into the finite detail of items such as the constitution, the final purchase price for the shares, the repayment plans, etc.........and not one pound will be taken before all of that is agreed by the fans - any of whom will be able to bail out at any time in the process.

SMiSA are in a slightly different position; however I doubt any cash will be taken from them until everything is agreed. Jumping up and down demanding information at this stage is a waste of everyone's time. smile.png

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Guest somner9

That's what I don't get about your repeated attacks on the fan ownership plans. As you point out it is very much an "if" as to whether 10000 Hours will get this to the next stage, let alone when. And yet you expound a vast amount of time and energy trying to undermines their aims with the sum total of zero direct debits being pulled. There will be plenty of time during what is still going to be a long and dull process to drill into the finite detail of items such as the constitution, the final purchase price for the shares, the repayment plans, etc.........and not one pound will be taken before all of that is agreed by the fans - any of whom will be able to bail out at any time in the process.

SMiSA are in a slightly different position; however I doubt any cash will be taken from them until everything is agreed. Jumping up and down demanding information at this stage is a waste of everyone's time. smile.png

I am fully behind fan ownership, but certainly not one that seems to benefit only the two or three organisations set to make money out of SMFC. Smisa decided for their own reasons it isn't something they can back if they can't be trusted, I would have thought after two years they are not the only ones feeling that way. Don't give a hoot who has/hasn't done whatever with their DD forms. each to their own

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I am fully behind fan ownership, but certainly not one that seems to benefit only the two or three organisations set to make money out of SMFC. Smisa decided for their own reasons it isn't something they can back if they can't be trusted, I would have thought after two years they are not the only ones feeling that way. Don't give a hoot who has/hasn't done whatever with their DD forms. each to their own

somner9, be honest you are against any kind of ownership. If SMiSA had come up with the same proposals you would have been bursting out of your shirt to have a go at them. Its a personality thing.

You are also doing SMiSA a grave disservice. They start the paragraph with "We can confirm that SMiSA is currently withdrawing support in principle from the 10000 Hours proposal." and end it with..."Should sufficient detailed information be made available to us at a future date we will consider this accordingly."

Basically they are in the same position as the rest of us - waiting for the process to get to the point when further information will be provided.

Your stance is becoming more and more silly by the post. 1eye.gif

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I am fully behind fan ownership, but certainly not one that seems to benefit only the two or three organisations set to make money out of SMFC. Smisa decided for their own reasons it isn't something they can back if they can't be trusted, I would have thought after two years they are not the only ones feeling that way. Don't give a hoot who has/hasn't done whatever with their DD forms. each to their own

Where the f**k does it say only two or three community groups will benefit? For the umpteenth f**king time 10000hours isn't just about a f**king bar! :rolleyes:

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Errrr never been a smisa member... why? Re last two lines my honest opinion and obseravtions of an organisation that has failed to deliver as yet anything it set out to do. two years and counting. sheez even rangers managed to get a buyer in 4 days last week.

"Why?". Your post below is why. In it, you claim to know why SMISA have temporarily withdrawn their support. Or is that just more conjecture on your part? BTW... no-one has bought Rangers yet. Their last 'buyer' lasted 2 or 3 days. I am completely frustrated and bored with the interminally long drawn out process that is going on with the 10000hrs bid. However, I would rather have that, than some fly-by-night organisation coming in, telling us nothing and attempting to buy our Club, with no transparency whatsoever. Which would you prefer?

Comparing the our BOD & 10000hrs to Craig Whyte is like comparing Chalk with Cheese and is a cheap shot.

What Smisa found is what is available to anyone. 10000 hours do not have any contigencies should there projection drop below target.Which in this economic environment is always likely. In short they dont know what they will do if something changes. Add to that a lot of the funding is now coming from organisations whose sole objective is to make money out of SMP whilst returning nothing to the club.

this is not about the profit on a matchday pint, but about substantial facilities at SMP that these organisations will dominate and reap substantial reward from. The BoD should hang their heads in shame for trying to leave a legacy where even the proposer doesn't know what he's doing.

It's all turned a bit Craig 'Whyte'1eye.gif

It is a bit like on here....somner9 is ranting any old shite like a mad man - it is all conspiracy and bile. 10000 Hours have depended on people like Vambo57 to make the response. We have an easier decision to make as it's our money. SMiSA have a trickier situation as it is a large group's money. And like us they are right to want to hold off on committing their cash until they have all the information. I don't see why anyone would have an issue with that.

Sid. Sid I have absolutely no issue with SMISA. Apart from being a pledger, I have nothing at all to do with 10000hrs. I listened to the CIC at the 1st two Shareholders meetings, I like what I heard. I have had no further contact with them (apart from some posts on their website forum).

When I do take part in these discussions it is usually to counter outrageous speculation and undeserved derogatory personal comments on the CIC or its supporters. Somner indeed used to add some good points and comment to the debate with some interesting stuff, which I liked, but lately he just seems to be grabbing any old rumour and speculation and turning it into - as you say - some kind of conspiracy theory. A bit like Ol' Yul actually... without the Wild West theme...

Edited by Vambo57
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Guest somner9

"Why?". Your post below is why. In it, you claim to know why SMISA have temporarily withdrawn their support. Or is that just more conjecture on your part? BTW... no-one has bought Rangers yet. Their last 'buyer' lasted 2 or 3 days. I am completely frustrated and bored with the interminally long drawn out process that is going on with the 10000hrs bid. However, I would rather have that, than some fly-by-night organisation coming in, telling us nothing and attempting to buy our Club, with no transparency whatsoever. Which would you prefer?

Comparing the our BOD & 10000hrs to Craig Whyte is like comparing Chalk with Cheese and is a cheap shot.

Sid. Sid I have absolutely no issue with SMISA. Apart from being a pledger, I have nothing at all to do with 10000hrs. I listened to the CIC at the 1st two Shareholders meetings, I like what I heard. I have had no further contact with them (apart from some posts on their website forum).

When I do take part in these discussions it is usually to counter outrageous speculation and undeserved derogatory personal comments on the CIC or its supporters. Somner indeed used to add some good points and comment to the debate with some interesting stuff, which I liked, but lately he just seems to be grabbing any old rumour and speculation and turning it into - as you say - some kind of conspiracy theory. A bit like Ol' Yul actually... without the Wild West theme...

I know why smisa withdrew their support because the told everyone that wanted to read the programme and their press release. No insider info just reading glasses

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I know why smisa withdrew their support because the told everyone that wanted to read the programme and their press release. No insider info just reading glasses

I don't buy a programme and I didn't read anything in the Press Release that stated what you stated were the reasons. Can you quote the relevant bits to me and I will apologise?

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Guest somner9

I don't buy a programme and I didn't read anything in the Press Release that stated what you stated were the reasons. Can you quote the relevant bits to me and I will apologise?

No apology required! if you read Smisa's statement on the OP on this thread you get most of what was in the programme

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Sid. Sid I have absolutely no issue with SMISA. Apart from being a pledger, I have nothing at all to do with 10000hrs. I listened to the CIC at the 1st two Shareholders meetings, I like what I heard. I have had no further contact with them (apart from some posts on their website forum).

When I do take part in these discussions it is usually to counter outrageous speculation and undeserved derogatory personal comments on the CIC or its supporters. Somner indeed used to add some good points and comment to the debate with some interesting stuff, which I liked, but lately he just seems to be grabbing any old rumour and speculation and turning it into - as you say - some kind of conspiracy theory. A bit like Ol' Yul actually... without the Wild West theme...

No different from the rest of us Vambo57. For me all the CIC stuff and the scumgers stuff has taken the edge off what hs been a great season. fank thuk we weren't watching a Gus team whilst all this was going on.

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