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10000 Hours Do It Do It!


bazil85
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Just do, if the new owners makes a mess of everything and leads us in the wrong direction people will start cancelling their direct debits think its in everyones interest having a fan based ownership plan. The money we are all asked to put in consistently i genuinely believe will be invested back into the club.

What's our other options anyway?

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There is only one bid on the table that delivers fan ownership and asset locks the clubs crown jewels.

I'd trust SG and co to sell to a private bidder too but at the end of the day once the shares are sold and the deal is done there will be nothing they or we can do if a new owner starts to take their investment back out of the club through whatever means they see fit.

No private bidder will buy St.Mirren because they love the club, otherwise they would have done it by now.

10000Hours represents, in my opinion, the best route forward, but if another fans group came forward with a bid I'd be up for giving it consideration and doing what I could to help as well.

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There is only one bid on the table that delivers fan ownership and asset locks the clubs crown jewels.

I'd trust SG and co to sell to a private bidder too but at the end of the day once the shares are sold and the deal is done there will be nothing they or we can do if a new owner starts to take their investment back out of the club through whatever means they see fit.

No private bidder will buy St.Mirren because they love the club, otherwise they would have done it by now.

10000Hours represents, in my opinion, the best route forward, but if another fans group came forward with a bid I'd be up for giving it consideration and doing what I could to help as well.

This is pretty much how I see it now.

The current 10000Hours proposal is unlikley to tick every box that every supporter might want ticked, but I'm not hearing about any other preferable and, importantly, viable alternative.

Sometimes we have to accept that what is on offer is pretty much as good as it gets.

Like just about everything else in life, it seems we might have to take a bit of a punt on this. There are no guarantees, but, it seems to me, there are a few important safeguards in place.

I can't make it along ot the meeting on Thursday due to other commitments, but I hope that a few searching questions will be asked. We now have a decision to make as individuals and supporters of our club. Personally, I don't feel that I have a great deal to lose from signing up for a tenner a month (all I'm in a position to commit to just now). I'm not 100% as to whether I'll be going ahead, but I'm as likely to now as I ever have been.

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There is only one bid on the table that delivers fan ownership and asset locks the clubs crown jewels.

I'd trust SG and co to sell to a private bidder too but at the end of the day once the shares are sold and the deal is done there will be nothing they or we can do if a new owner starts to take their investment back out of the club through whatever means they see fit.

No private bidder will buy St.Mirren because they love the club, otherwise they would have done it by now.

10000Hours represents, in my opinion, the best route forward, but if another fans group came forward with a bid I'd be up for giving it consideration and doing what I could to help as well.

100% right if some St Mirren fan is out there with mega bucks to buy us and make us into a powerhouse they'd have done it already. this is our safest option going forward. It might not be ideal but if you can't trust your fellow fans in regards to a football club how can you trust a seperated consortium or individual?

I think all St Mirren fans should get right behind this invest as much or as little as you feel comfortable with, whether it be £10 a month. £3000 or £25000 lets safeguard and move St Mirren football club forward!

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Just do, if the new owners makes a mess of everything and leads us in the wrong direction people will start cancelling their direct debits

What new owners - its supposed to be fan ownership......if fans cancel the direct debits then we default on the debt and then we are f"k'd. If we are going to do this then people must understand they need to keep paying for at least ten years no matter how much of a balls up it turns out to be.

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This is pretty much how I see it now.

The current 10000Hours proposal is unlikley to tick every box that every supporter might want ticked, but I'm not hearing about any other preferable and, importantly, viable alternative.

Sometimes we have to accept that what is on offer is pretty much as good as it gets. - No we don't...look at the deal GLS has got for himself - permanent seat on the BoD...gets to sell his shares - and we're the mugs paying for it all - we have every opportunity to negotiate - 10000 Hours are offering us no time to do that by trying to force a decision in just a few days after providing information that hasn;t been supplied yet.

Like just about everything else in life, it seems we might have to take a bit of a punt on this. There are no guarantees, but, it seems to me, there are a few important safeguards in place. - what safeguards do you think are in place?

I can't make it along ot the meeting on Thursday due to other commitments, but I hope that a few searching questions will be asked. We now have a decision to make as individuals and supporters of our club. Personally, I don't feel that I have a great deal to lose from signing up for a tenner a month (all I'm in a position to commit to just now). I'm not 100% as to whether I'll be going ahead, but I'm as likely to now as I ever have been.

Some searching questions might be asked - we won't get answers and 10000 Hours have not allowed any time for a response.

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100% right if some St Mirren fan is out there with mega bucks to buy us and make us into a powerhouse they'd have done it already. this is our safest option going forward. It might not be ideal but if you can't trust your fellow fans in regards to a football club how can you trust a seperated consortium or individual?

I think all St Mirren fans should get right behind this invest as much or as little as you feel comfortable with, whether it be £10 a month. £3000 or £25000 lets safeguard and move St Mirren football club forward!

Hi Richard, how are you this fine rainy evening.

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The new owners will be US !

The people on the football club board will be entirely answerable to the 10000Hours CIC membership and can be removed by the CIC membership if we collectively feel they are not doing a good job.

There are many details of the democratic process to be ironed out but similar ownership models work well in Germany and Spain and there is absolutely no reason why 10000Hours can't succeed.

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I won't make it on Thursday either. I would have liked to have been there but circumstances mean I can't make it. However I have completed my direct debit again as well and I look forward to seeing 10000hours completing the deal with the consortium and putting in place one of the biggest Social Enterprise business ventures ever to be involved in a senior football club in the UK. I have absolutely no doubt that the whole thing will be a success and I am convinced the deal will complete - where I am more sceptical is in the ability of St Mirren fans themselves to back and drive 10000hours to achieve it's full potential and to realise the full benefit of gains for the football club.

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St Mirren still have an income outside of fans £10 a month and all the rest. Or are people forgetting about ticket sales, merchandise, sponsorship.... Sorry I just don't see why this fan buy out is such a bad idea?

bazil, your post is exactly why fans need specific information that nails down the latest CIC offer. You are committing to something that you don't understand.

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There are many details of the democratic process to be ironed out but similar ownership models work well in Germany and Spain and there is absolutely no reason why 10000Hours can't succeed.

So I take it from that statement that the detail being asked for is either not available or is going to be withheld. Either way this is not the time to be pushed to a deadline.

The club will not be owned by fans. Fans will own the right to vote every three years for the some of the representatives on the CIC Board - not the SMFC BoD. The fans are basically buying a £1.5Million debt.

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bazil, your post is exactly why fans need specific information that nails down the latest CIC offer. You are committing to something that you don't understand.

That's not my reading of his post Sid. He says he can't see why a fan buy out is a bad idea. That doesn't mean a lack of understanding, it just means he can't see the negative side that you are trying to paint.

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That's not my reading of his post Sid. He says he can't see why a fan buy out is a bad idea. That doesn't mean a lack of understanding, it just means he can't see the negative side that you are trying to paint.

Read his post Stu - "St Mirren still have an income outside of fans £10 a month and all the rest."

The £10-a-month is going to fund a £1.5Million debt over 10 years, it is not going into SMFC. This is a mugging of fans, not fan ownership.

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All I would say is this option for St mirren football club is the best I think is available. I would rather pay my £10 a month and no the club is asset protected and in the hands of fans than it go down the same path as say Livingstone. A lot of resistance from fans which I appreciate but what I would rather see from these fans is other options. the current board want out so if this isn't the way forward what is?

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All I would say is this option for St mirren football club is the best I think is available. I would rather pay my £10 a month and no the club is asset protected and in the hands of fans than it go down the same path as say Livingstone. A lot of resistance from fans which I appreciate but what I would rather see from these fans is other options. the current board want out so if this isn't the way forward what is?

bazil, this is not about options. It is about ensuring that the offer on the table is the best one available to the fans. The fans haven't been given options by 10000 Hours. We either take their offer or we don't. The issue is that we don't actually know what the offer is. We don't know the risk to the club we are taking by accepting the offer. 10000 Hours by their own admission are not providing this information to us.

http://www.paisleydailyexpress.co.uk/renfrewshire-sport/renfrewshire-football/renfrewshire-football-st-mirren/2012/06/04/atkinson-i-ve-made-takeover-mistakes-87085-31104020/

We all want what is best for the club and we would all want the 10000 Hours to be what we all hope it is......the problem is we are being forced into making a decision by a deadline without being allowed to ensure that the offer is what we hope it is. We should not be signing up to £1.5Million of debt without being absolutely clear on the risks.

We need all of the information along with time to review it. Without that we are gambling with the future of the club. This process of trying to force us to sign up without providing the opportunity to ensure this is the right deal for the club and for the fans. WHy can;t we be allowed the opportunity to review the detail, if we do that then the number of members can go up, SMISA will throw £50K into the pot and the risk to the club will be reduced.

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Read his post Stu - "St Mirren still have an income outside of fans £10 a month and all the rest."

The £10-a-month is going to fund a £1.5Million debt over 10 years, it is not going into SMFC. This is a mugging of fans, not fan ownership.

St Mirren do still have an income outside of the member subscriptions. Maybe I'm mis-interpretating his post but it looks factual to me. St Mirren are generating revenue currently from gate receipts, sponsorship, TV rights, prize money etc, etc. The club currently breaks even. You're right that the £10 per month is going to 10000hours and that it will be servicing a debt and that it's entirely possible that St Mirren will never see a penny of that even once the debts have been repaid but the extra business generated from the use of the facilities and savings from working with community groups will be a direct financial benefit to St Mirren FC.

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St Mirren do still have an income outside of the member subscriptions. Maybe I'm mis-interpretating his post but it looks factual to me. St Mirren are generating revenue currently from gate receipts, sponsorship, TV rights, prize money etc, etc. The club currently breaks even. You're right that the £10 per month is going to 10000hours and that it will be servicing a debt and that it's entirely possible that St Mirren will never see a penny of that even once the debts have been repaid but the extra business generated from the use of the facilities and savings from working with community groups will be a direct financial benefit to St Mirren FC.

Stu, that is one of the areas that makes me even more nervous about the lack of information being provided. We haven't seen the finances around this. I am concerned that some of the income to pay back part of the debt might be coming from CIC initiatives. Would 10000 Hours be prepared to try and fluff the numbers coming from CIC initiatives to ramp up the membership "donation" subsriptions if they fall short? We will have less than a week to review the financial detail - if it is actually provided at the meeting on Thursday. I really hope we are not going to get verbal blah, blah on the numbers and will be given printed docuemntation - all the commercial confidentiality bollox is starting to wear very thin.

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The £10-a-month is going to fund a £1.5Million debt over 10 years, it is not going into SMFC. This is a mugging of fans, not fan ownership.

The main point surely is it is not going out of SMFC either ?

Put yourself for a second into the shoes of a "private bidder".

Why would you buy St.Mirren if you had no emotional attachment to the club. How are you going to get your money back on the purchase ?

Bringing in players to sell them on would be one way.

Paying yourself a handsome salary for doing nothing would be one way.

Using your other businesses or other connections to leak money out of the club might be one way.

Selling club assets and paying yourself a mighty dividend might be one way.

If you can think of a positive way how a private consortium might get their money back out of a £1.5m cash purchase of St.Mirren Football Club without harming the football club then I'd love to hear it.

The fact is that the biggest single investment here is going to be £25k and for that those investors will have a tangible asset they can sell again in a few years if they wish in the shape of their 1877 shares.

Spreading the risk through the shoulders of a few hundred St.Mirren fans all making small monthly subscriptions is a low risk strategy given that those same individuals are the ones with the most to lose if the club should go under.

This isn't scaremongering, it's simple common sense.

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Stu, that is one of the areas that makes me even more nervous about the lack of information being provided. We haven't seen the finances around this. I am concerned that some of the income to pay back part of the debt might be coming from CIC initiatives. Would 10000 Hours be prepared to try and fluff the numbers coming from CIC initiatives to ramp up the membership "donation" subsriptions if they fall short? We will have less than a week to review the financial detail - if it is actually provided at the meeting on Thursday. I really hope we are not going to get verbal blah, blah on the numbers and will be given printed docuemntation - all the commercial confidentiality bollox is starting to wear very thin.

Sorry Sid I can't understand what you are getting at here. Are you saying you are concerned that profits generated from CIC initiatives would be used to cover the shortfall from a fall off in the number of members? Why would that be a concern?

Through here we're looking at business plans that would repay social funder loans without touching member subscriptions.

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