10000hours Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Following on Twitter last night I noticed that the board position available to the 48% will come from the new 1877 tier. Do you think this is a fair representation of the shareholders who have held shares for a number of years? What will happen if the 1877 club is not taken up in significant numbers? All that the 1877 shareholders are guarnteed is to be engaged in the Non Exec way. The Club has a prexistent Mem and Arts and this will stay so anyone from the 48% can stand for election to the Club board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000hours Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Those who have put shares in - a new development since GLS made his initial statement and even as late as last night the was no mention of these others. Sorry but Gordon did mention last night that others are interested in doing what he is doing But there is no guarantee that he and those who have put shares in would just write it off and why go to the trouble of making yourself a creditor if you're just going to write it off at least 8 years later. What is the maximum liability of the CIC to GLS etc after the initial debt has been paid off at least 8 years down the line? There is no interest or anything on this so after all other debts are paid the maximum liabilty to GLS would be his total shares sold in the process x £13.31 a share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 No. Can you offer an explanation then? You were one of two new directors were co-opted onto the BoD two years ago and there are paid employees whose job it is, presumably, to exploit commercial opportunities and not let them stagnate. Why has it happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) What is the situation regarding uptake of the non-executive memberships? Given the cost is £25K, one would have to assume that this is envisaged as constituting a proportionately significant element of the overall funding to complete the deal. Are 10000Hours confident that they will receive a sufficient number of subscriptions in terms of this form of membership, and how critical is this to the success of the funding package that has to be in place next week? Edit for typos as tried to type with one hand whie eating lunch.... Edited June 8, 2012 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
band for life Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Its an answer, but not a vey convincing one. Philanthropists are in short supply at the moment and maybe you are indeed one of them!! I would have been happier if you had said that you saw an opportunity to make some money whilst improving the club. Fergus McCann said just that and did just that and was good for Celtic - far better than they deserved actually. Again, I apoligise if you think me rude, but maybe I'm not the one who wants watching!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000hours Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Can you offer an explanation then? You were one of two new directors were co-opted onto the BoD two years ago and there are paid employees whose job it is, presumably, to exploit commercial opportunities and not let them stagnate. Why has it happened? Without wishing to go of topic too much we are in difficult times in relation to the standard sort of stuff that is the bread and butter of the Commercial activities of a Football Club, hospitality, advertising, programmes etc. All of these areas in the last two years have become significantly more profitable but the overall volumes have not grown e.g stagnated. At the same time the club has had: a new kit and kit sponser deal (which will see at least an additional 1000 kids kits go into the community this year) a new Car Sponsor Package new users of the stadium for non football activities more margin on all normal activities by a focus on cost control. So while the comparision the Chairman was making between on and off the pitch is correct in that on the pitch this season has taken a leap forward under Danny and the budgets that the Whole board has been able to make avaliable to him in comparsion to the on filed activites the off field activities have not taken a Volume leap forward although the individual parts of the equation are all more profitable (hence budgets on the pitch) at the same time as the negotiation of significatly better revenues for the club via Kit sales and other Commercial contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000hours Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 What is the situation regarding uptake of the non-executive memberships? Given the cost is £25K, one would have to assume that this is envisaged as constituting a proportionately significant element of the overall funding to complete the deal. Are 10000Hours confident that they will receive a sufficient number of subscriptions in terms of this form of membership, and how critical is this to the success of the funding package that has to be in place next week? Edit for typos as tried to type with one hand whie eating lunch.... the 1877 is an important part of the package and like the other member categories it needs filled. We have a number of expresions of interest but the reality is that both thiose interested in the 87 club and the 1877 are looking to see if we first get the Grassroots uptake of the Standard memberships. It is not as critical that these memberships are inplace next week as the standard memberships....these are critical which is why it is our focus right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 There is no interest or anything on this so after all other debts are paid the maximum liabilty to GLS would be his total shares sold in the process x £13.31 a share. £202k to GLS give or take. What about the others - are you trying to make this as difficult as possible? ********************************** Sorry but Gordon did mention last night that others are interested in doing what he is doing Well if you can show me where it says that on the live feed then I'd be grateful - what I read was "Gordons shares make up the rest" and "Gordon's shares will be redeemable but only once debt has been cleared and when CIC has a backup reserve of £100k" Does that mean I can become a creditor and get £13.31 per share back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 the 1877 is an important part of the package and like the other member categories it needs filled. We have a number of expresions of interest but the reality is that both thiose interested in the 87 club and the 1877 are looking to see if we first get the Grassroots uptake of the Standard memberships. It is not as critical that these memberships are inplace next week as the standard memberships....these are critical which is why it is our focus right now Thanks. I'm assuming from your answer that an absence of the desired number of sign-ups wouldn't be a deal breaker, as it were? How would this gap be off-set in order to push the deal through, though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000hours Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Its an answer, but not a vey convincing one. Philanthropists are in short supply at the moment and maybe you are indeed one of them!! I would have been happier if you had said that you saw an opportunity to make some money whilst improving the club. Fergus McCann said just that and did just that and was good for Celtic - far better than they deserved actually. Again, I apoligise if you think me rude, but maybe I'm not the one who wants watching!! How can i make money it is a CIC run on Coop principals. You can chose to belive me or not, but there is no physical or legal way that I could make money even ifI wanted to. I am not being Philanthropic as I am not putting up all the money, although I have paid for all the set up and legal costs of all parties and will not get this back, and the additional money I am putting in is via one of the member categories just like everyone else. Sometimes you actuall just need to belive what someone is telling you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000hours Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 £202k to GLS give or take. What about the others - are you trying to make this as difficult as possible? ********************************** Sorry but Gordon did mention last night that others are interested in doing what he is doing Well if you can show me where it says that on the live feed then I'd be grateful - what I read was "Gordons shares make up the rest" and "Gordon's shares will be redeemable but only once debt has been cleared and when CIC has a backup reserve of £100k" The live feed was on Twitter and not a verbatim record, I am sure those who were in the room will verify as well as Gordon himself Does that mean I can become a creditor and get £13.31 per share back? If you own shares and are prepared to put them into the CIC just like Gordon and under the same terms then in time yes you can get paid for them at £13.31 This is the whole point it provides both a market in the shares and the abilty for the CIC to buy them also thus increasing the 52% ownership Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000hours Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Thanks. I'm assuming from your answer that an absence of the desired number of sign-ups wouldn't be a deal breaker, as it were? How would this gap be off-set in order to push the deal through, though? As noted last night we have a deal that we can conclude that means us having to hand over £900k. The deal breaker is not meeting this inital payment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) GLS mentioned that if the CIC were to have spare cash it could buy additional shares from the 48% and increase its representation on the SMFC BoD as the number of directors on the SMFC Board is based on the percentage of shares. Could you explain what the make up of the SMFC Board will be based on the 52% / 48% split please? Edited June 8, 2012 by St. Sid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000hours Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 GLS mentioned that if the CIC were to have spare cash it could buy additional shares from the 48% and increase its representation on the SMFC BoD as the number of directors on the SMFC Board is based on the percentage of shares. Could you explain what the make up of the SMFC Board will be based on the 52% / 48% split please? The interim board of the CIC will make a recommendation to the CIC AGM on the size of the CIC and therefore leading on from this the size of the SMFC Board. SMFC must have a board of at least 5. As at the next Club AGM all current 5 positions will be up for election it will be at that point that if the CIC members have decided that the board size will be increased and the CIC process will with a 52:48 majority have at least a majority on the board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) The interim board of the CIC will make a recommendation to the CIC AGM on the size of the CIC and therefore leading on from this the size of the SMFC Board. SMFC must have a board of at least 5. As at the next Club AGM all current 5 positions will be up for election it will be at that point that if the CIC members have decided that the board size will be increased and the CIC process will with a 52:48 majority have at least a majority on the board Just to clarify this a wee bit more. I take it that on a 5 director SMFC Board we will have 3 representatives from the CIC and 2 from the 48% shareholders? If so, will the two directors representing the 48% shareholders be elected at their AGM - are any of the places specified for 1877 club members or is it just an open vote? On the interim SMFC BoD we have 5 named directors. When the election at the AGMs happens, whereabouts will those people stand for election - CIC / 48% shareholders / 1877 Club? REA / GLS will be directors by default for an unspecified period to be decided by Bii - will they be taking up CIC places / 48% shareholder places / 1877 club places or will you be over and above? Who will be the interim Chairman of St Mirren Football Club? No tinfoil hat conspiracy theory here - just genuinely interested, especially about the Chairman bit. Edited June 8, 2012 by St. Sid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 As far as the 48% that we repeatedly hear about, my understanding was that taking GLS, another former Director and SMiSA aside that the individual small shareholders are a remaining approximately 28% of the SMFC shareholding. How will the CiC tackle engaging those shareholders to get them on board and indeed on the board and would it not be appropriate maybe for SMiSA to engage with them if any want to sell on etc rather than the CIC stretching itself further? My other point would be engagement with fans after the Process completes. Can the CiC add members after the sale and how broad a number of individual members would be seen as a success? Can the numbers exceed say 5000? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) If you own shares and are prepared to put them into the CIC just like Gordon and under the same terms then in time yes you can get paid for them at £13.31 This is the whole point it provides both a market in the shares and the abilty for the CIC to buy them also thus increasing the 52% ownership It's a bit late in the day to be releasing this information and not freely offered IMO. I don't want to do so personally but how would a small shareholder that did go about this? And again how many other shareholders have taken up this option so far and what is the current potential liability (on top of the £202k to GLS) once the initial debt have been paid off - 8 years (at least) hence? Edited June 8, 2012 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Without wishing to go of topic too much we are in difficult times in relation to the standard sort of stuff that is the bread and butter of the Commercial activities of a Football Club, hospitality, advertising, programmes etc. All of these areas in the last two years have become significantly more profitable but the overall volumes have not grown e.g stagnated. At the same time the club has had: a new kit and kit sponser deal (which will see at least an additional 1000 kids kits go into the community this year) a new Car Sponsor Package new users of the stadium for non football activities more margin on all normal activities by a focus on cost control. So while the comparision the Chairman was making between on and off the pitch is correct in that on the pitch this season has taken a leap forward under Danny and the budgets that the Whole board has been able to make avaliable to him in comparsion to the on filed activites the off field activities have not taken a Volume leap forward although the individual parts of the equation are all more profitable (hence budgets on the pitch) at the same time as the negotiation of significatly better revenues for the club via Kit sales and other Commercial contracts. So in fact the impression given by the original statement was misleading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000hours Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Just to clarify this a wee bit more. I take it that on a 5 director SMFC Board we will have 3 representatives from the CIC and 2 from the 48% shareholders? Yes If so, will the two directors representing the 48% shareholders be elected at their AGM - are any of the places specified for 1877 club members or is it just an open vote? If by their AGM you mean the club then Yes, and an open vote, that what the Mem and Arts of the Club say On the interim SMFC BoD we have 5 named directors. When the election at the AGMs happens, whereabouts will those people stand for election - CIC / 48% shareholders / 1877 Club? will be upto the individuals as to if they want to stand and what for REA / GLS will be directors by default for an unspecified period to be decided by Bii - will they be taking up CIC places / 48% shareholder places / 1877 club places or will you be over and above? Of the Club board NO we wont. Only the CIC board are we there until funders are happy they have the relationship with the rest of the board then we have to stand for election like everyone else. So the only places we take up are CIC places, we will have to stand for election (if we want to) at the Club AGM this year Who will be the interim Chairman of St Mirren Football Club? Club Mem and Arts say the the board itself appoints its Chairman that is what will happen No tinfoil hat conspiracy theory here - just genuinely interested, especially about the Chairman bit. happy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000hours Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 As far as the 48% that we repeatedly hear about, my understanding was that taking GLS, another former Director and SMiSA aside that the individual small shareholders are a remaining approximately 28% of the SMFC shareholding. How will the CiC tackle engaging those shareholders to get them on board and indeed on the board and would it not be appropriate maybe for SMiSA to engage with them if any want to sell on etc rather than the CIC stretching itself further? If SMiSA want to do that then that is upto them. We have been thinking about this issue also, and one option could be to adopt something that we said right back at the beinging and tweek it a bit, and say that the non 1877 shareholders could from there midst elect a non Exec post thus giving them a route of solid communication to the board My other point would be engagement with fans after the Process completes. Can the CiC add members after the sale and how broad a number of individual members would be seen as a success? Can the numbers exceed say 5000? Absolutly. I think if we could engage with half the supporter base within the first year that would be a worthy target Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000hours Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 It's a bit late in the day to be releasing this information and not freely offered IMO. I don't want to do so personally but how would a small shareholder that did go about this? And again how many other shareholders have taken up this option so far and what is the current potential liability (on top of the £202k to GLS) once the initial debt have been paid off - 8 years (at least) hence? So in fact the impression given by the original statement was misleading. dont understand what you mean...but we are now def off topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Could ex-Director Ken McGeoch donate his shares and become a creditor as & when the conditions are fulfilled? Can the CIC vote not to repay any such creditors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000hours Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 It's a bit late in the day to be releasing this information and not freely offered IMO. I don't want to do so personally but how would a small shareholder that did go about this? And again how many other shareholders have taken up this option so far and what is the current potential liability (on top of the £202k to GLS) once the initial debt have been paid off - 8 years (at least) hence? Think you may be misunderstandning the liabilty bit. We have to pay £1.5m for the Club that is the maximum liabilty for 52% of the shares. If the members chose to spend any excess money on buying more shares it will be upto the CIC board to make it haoppen and present the finacial details to the members for them to approve or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 happy? Yes, a very good response - bet you know who'll be Chairman though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000hours Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Could ex-Director Ken McGeoch donate his shares and become a creditor as & when the conditions are fulfilled? Can the CIC vote not to repay any such creditors? Anyone can put the share in if the CIC and the Shareholder agree the terms. A legally binding agreement ratified by a board elected by its members cannot be breeched without whatever consequenecies contained in the agreement coming into play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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