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[davidg]

Sam Parkin fan club.

Talking of fanny talk?

[St. Sid]

Talking of fanny talk?

10000 Hours asked me a question and I answered it.

[BLF]

Richard, I think it would be good to outline basic finance figures so that everyone understands the model.

Currently we have;

The bid is for £1.5m.

£0.5m is coming from a social investment fund called Big Issue Invest. Repayable at 8% interest over a total period of 8 years.

£261k is projected to come from 87 members of the 87 members club each paying a £3k lump sum

£225k is projected to come from 9 non-executive 1877 members each paying a £25k lump sum

£900k due to be paid on 4th July coming from the above. Leaving £600k still to pay.

How does the business model cover both the capital and interest repayable to BII and also raising the additional £600k due to be paid ?

The member subs of £7.5k per month would raise £90k per annum.

What else is in the business model as additional revenue streams ?

Over what period is the other £600k repayable ?

Div, thank you for asking my question for me!

I will go through this step by step to make sure its clear:

£900k is due on day 0.

£600k due to the consortium at some future point (what point does this become payable?)

Initial payment made up of £500k from BII, + £400k from the exclusive membership clubs. That leaves £86k in the pot on day 0.

Monthly subs target is £7.5k (£500k over 8 years at 8% = monthly repayment of around £7.1k).

Over the course of the 8 year loan the CIC shold have generated £38k excess from subs + the £86K in the pot from day 0.= £124k

Presumably that all goes to the consortium at the end of the 8 year loan, the consortium is then due £476k on day 0 + 8 years.

It will take another 5 years and 4 months of £7.5k subs to pay off that remaining debt to the consortium.

So on day 0 + 13 years and 4 months, the CIC will be debt free....except for what is due to GLS (how much and when is this due?)

Of course I understand the ambition will be to;

1 - generate more money through the CIC activities to speed up the repayments

2 - resturucture the debt at a lower interest rate after a year or two of successful trading

[animal]

Div, thank you for asking my question for me!

I will go through this step by step to make sure its clear:

£900k is due on day 0.

£600k due to the consortium at some future point (what point does this become payable?)

Initial payment made up of £500k from BII, + £400k from the exclusive membership clubs. That leaves £86k in the pot on day 0.

Monthly subs target is £7.5k (£500k over 8 years at 8% = monthly repayment of around £7.1k).

Over the course of the 8 year loan the CIC shold have generated £38k excess from subs + the £86K in the pot from day 0.= £124k

Presumably that all goes to the consortium at the end of the 8 year loan, the consortium is then due £476k on day 0 + 8 years.

It will take another 5 years and 4 months of £7.5k subs to pay off that remaining debt to the consortium.

So on day 0 + 13 years and 4 months, the CIC will be debt free....except for what is due to GLS (how much and when is this due?)

Of course I understand the ambition will be to;

1 - generate more money through the CIC activities to speed up the repayments

2 - resturucture the debt at a lower interest rate after a year or two of successful trading

Anybody want to work out how long it will take with say 400 @ £10 a month, 30 @ £3000 and nobody coming up with £25,000 ? (that's a question Sid).

[Big Fras]

It really is now about "Whatever you Want"

That ones for Big Fras.

" Whatever you say you pay your money you take your choice "

[saintargyll]

Well hopefully you can all see, those who take the time to read the real answers to the questions asked rather than assumptions, suppostion or just plain Screenwritter Fiction about the proposal will continue to engage over the weekend, the answers might be a bit slower in coming until Monday but we will continue to answer as best we can.

The CIC is 100% about Community Ownership and Fan Governance

It is 100% One Member One Vote

It is 100% about enabling any fan to engage and end up on the board of the Club they love

It is 100% about sustainabilty, transparency and keeping the Club safe for ever

BUT

It is also 100% dependant on whether you the fans (including me) want it to happen.

So if it is to be 100% about the fans then it is also 100% in our hands to make it happen in the next week, so you and me must encourage all those who are still sitting on the fence believing that the Consortium will last for ever if the CIC does not complete the deal that the "Status Quo" is not a future and the Club will be in new ownership by the 4th of August.

You know who the doubters are you need to get hold of them and convince them like the 10000hours team convinced you

My Preference for the last 3 years worth of work has been that the new owner should be the widest possible fan base.

It really is now about "Whatever you Want"

That ones for Big Fras.

Have a great weekend

is it 100% "no rangers involved" ???????????

[porks]

Last time I logged on to the 10000 hours website, the Standard CIC Membership count was in bodes and stood at a total of 653 people committed to a minimum of £10 per month. By my reckoning this should equate to 653 * £10 = a minimum of £6,530. However, it has now been converted to a monetary amount and the figure is £3,955.

Why the drop? What was the 653 figure based on - were these DD's not confirmed?

[aldo_j]

Last time I logged on to the 10000 hours website, the Standard CIC Membership count was in bodes and stood at a total of 653 people committed to a minimum of £10 per month. By my reckoning this should equate to 653 * £10 = a minimum of £6,530. However, it has now been converted to a monetary amount and the figure is £3,955.

Why the drop? What was the 653 figure based on - were these DD's not confirmed?

What is showing now is the value of the confirmed direct debits. What was previously shown was all the paper DD's that were submitted last year, however due to time lapse they couldn't be used.

[chico]

What is showing now is the value of the confirmed direct debits. What was previously shown was all the paper DD's that were submitted last year, however due to time lapse they couldn't be used.

Guessing with the different options of DD amounts that it's much less than 390 individuals signed up so far and that if all 650 signed up it would exceed target amount.

Halfway there or so I guess, a fair bit of work still needed in getting folk signed up.

Edit to add. It does say 52% of target.

Edited June 9, 2012 by chico

[div]

I will update the figures on a daily basis through the week starting from tomorrow morning,

As has been said above there were 653 paper direct debits previously returned over the last year but many had expired and it was felt morally right in any case to have everyone revalidate their commitment online.

So far 363 people have done that, but I need to get a data extract from GoCardless to see the total monetary amount that equates to which is why I can't easily update the counter as and when I please.

[BLF]

Not being pushy, but has anyone had a chance to look at my question above?

[animal]

And mine please !

[Dibbles old paperboy]

Drew / animal...this threads for questions for 10000 Hours to answer. Why not use the multitude of other threads for your fanny talk? If its not a question - post it elsewhere...if you have an opinion, then form it into a question.

Sid's post is not a question for 10000Hours either.

[10000hours]

Div, thank you for asking my question for me!

I will go through this step by step to make sure its clear:

£900k is due on day 0.

£600k due to the consortium at some future point (what point does this become payable?)

Initial payment made up of £500k from BII, + £400k from the exclusive membership clubs. That leaves £86k in the pot on day 0.

Monthly subs target is £7.5k (£500k over 8 years at 8% = monthly repayment of around £7.1k).

Over the course of the 8 year loan the CIC shold have generated £38k excess from subs + the £86K in the pot from day 0.= £124k

Presumably that all goes to the consortium at the end of the 8 year loan, the consortium is then due £476k on day 0 + 8 years.

It will take another 5 years and 4 months of £7.5k subs to pay off that remaining debt to the consortium.

So on day 0 + 13 years and 4 months, the CIC will be debt free....except for what is due to GLS (how much and when is this due?)

Of course I understand the ambition will be to;

1 - generate more money through the CIC activities to speed up the repayments

2 - resturucture the debt at a lower interest rate after a year or two of successful trading

The Full £1.5m will have been paid after 8 years.

GLS or anyother shareholder that has chosen to help the CIC in the way they have will only have the debt become due after al other debt to Social Funder and Consortium is repaid. The staged payments to the consortium are due between 3-5 years depending on circumstances.

[10000hours]

Anybody want to work out how long it will take with say 400 @ £10 a month, 30 @ £3000 and nobody coming up with £25,000 ? (that's a question Sid).

Simple if we dont get te support to fullfill the "agreement in principal" then we dont do the deal.

We will only offer what we can afford, what is sustainable and what protects the next 135 years history of the Club by moving the majority shareholding into the Asset Lock protection of a CIC.

We recon that the broadest supporter base of the Community owning the Majority shareholding provides the best long term future for the Club, if you prefer some other traditional form of ownership then fiar enough.

[10000hours]

please keep questions coming this morning, we will try and answer as quickly as possible

[Grumpy Old Fan]

Have the 600plus people that returned the original DDs been contacted to ask them to do it again? Are new paper DDs available to those not happy about doing financial transactions on line.

[St. Sid]

1. The constitution allows for Director remunerations and expenses. Why does it allow for that and has there been a projection of costs for remuneration / expenses as the numbers being made available only appear to cover paying back debt?

2. Additional costs for legal fees have already popped out of the woodwork in terms of the social fund loan - these were supposed to be getting picked up by the chaps setting up this deal. Could you outline all costs that will be getting paid out of fan donations?

3. The constitution allows for investment in other CIC / Co-ops. Will funding be diverted from the loan repayments to fund such projects? If not how will these projects be funded?

[smcc]

Have the 600plus people that returned the original DDs been contacted to ask them to do it again? Are new paper DDs available to those not happy about doing financial transactions on line.

See 10,000 Hours website. http://10000hours.or...irect_debit.pdf

If I remember rightly, REA said at the meeting that all of those who had previously submitted DDs had been asked to confirm that they still want to do so.

[10000hours]

Have the 600plus people that returned the original DDs been contacted to ask them to do it again? Are new paper DDs available to those not happy about doing financial transactions on line.

Yes we have emailed those registered. You can also download a papercopy from the site and we can do it electronically for you

[10000hours]

1. The constitution allows for Director remunerations and expenses. Why does it allow for that and has there been a projection of costs for remuneration / expenses as the numbers being made available only appear to cover paying back debt?

It allows for that as part of a standard set of articles. I have no problem saying that all officers should not recieve expenses or renumeration and the articles could be adjusted to reflect this if the members want it

2. Additional costs for legal fees have already popped out of the woodwork in terms of the social fund loan - these were supposed to be getting picked up by the chaps setting up this deal. Could you outline all costs that will be getting paid out of fan donations?

The set up costs to get us to the point where as deal is signed have all been covered by the team, and will not be recovered should the deal go ahead. The only cost paid out of members fees will be the cost of buying the Club

3. The constitution allows for investment in other CIC / Co-ops. Will funding be diverted from the loan repayments to fund such projects? If not how will these projects be funded?

No.

Any additional projects will have to stand on their own

[pozbaird]

The people I sit with at St Mirren Park were the same group of people who all sat together at Love Street. Out of the group, I am the only one who is 'bothered' about fan forums, and spends too much time on the internet fretting over a daft team from Paisley. At just about every home game, it became clear that the folk around me who weren't into fan forums and this site, or the official site, knew next to nothing about the bid, the CIC, or progress.

Those of us who hang about here know the score, what has been done to engage what is probably the vast majority of the Saints support - those who aren't in the small, but passionate, online community?

Edit: I should specify, I don't mean what has been done to engage the 'non online' community over the last two years plus - merely in the vital period leading up to the deadline. With this being the close-season, there was no opportunity to attempt leafleting or anything at actual home fixtures.

Edited June 11, 2012 by pozbaird

[Vambo57]

Is there anyone there?

Poz's point is VERY important.

I know too late now, but:

e.g. Why did the CIC not send out letters and paper DD mandates to all ST holders informing them of the deadline?

I think the membership of BAWA is around the 3,000 mark, but you are actually probably engaging a few hundred fans on here, allowing for 'dead' accounts, and the fandans with multiple aliases.

[St. Sid]

Is there anyone there?

Poz's point is VERY important.

I know too late now, but:

e.g. Why did the CIC not send out letters and paper DD mandates to all ST holders informing them of the deadline?

I think the membership of BAWA is around the 3,000 mark, but you are actually probably engaging a few hundred fans on here, allowing for 'dead' accounts, and the fandans with multiple aliases.

It just hasn't been covered in the press either. A friendly journo got a story into The Herald and the PDE have done their bit as always. I haven't seen it covered elsewhere. WHat has happened to Chic Young - I know he'll be busy with the scumgers thing, but surely this is fairly news worthy.

[David Mc]

http://www.paisleydailyexpress.co.uk/renfrewshire-sport/2012/06/12/fitzy-lined-up-for-saints-stint-number-five-87085-31160586/