St. Sid Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 SMISA have made some very valid points , some I agree with some I don't , but they have helped me make my mind up , I won't be signing up to the CIC. There are just too many things which don't add up IMO. REA , to me , just seems to be the wrong type of person to convince me and others that he is the real deal , one things for sure , he's not a football man ! Odd all the different views. I quite like REA. It's the fact that he has had to compromise from the original values that has put me off CIC #3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 SMISA have made some very valid points , some I agree with some I don't , but they have helped me make my mind up , I won't be signing up to the CIC. There are just too many things which don't add up IMO. REA , to me , just seems to be the wrong type of person to convince me and others that he is the real deal , one things for sure , he's not a football man ! Not trying to force your hand here Billy as we all have differing views , however I feel your post might confuse some. REA will have no more power than anyone else in fact members of the CIC can actually vote REA off the board if they so wish. So there is no worries. I admire REA with his drive and enthusiasm ,given the number of stumbling blocks that has been put in front of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 Not trying to force your hand here Billy as we all have differing views , however I feel your post might confuse some. REA will have no more power than anyone else in fact members of the CIC can actually vote REA off the board if they so wish. So there is no worries. I admire REA with his drive and enthusiasm ,given the number of stumbling blocks that has been put in front of him. Nonsense LS....REA will be on both the CIC BoD and the SMFC BoD by default. That runs on past the interim period until the social funder decides otherwise. The scoial funder will have sway voer the club until all of their debt is repaid, which I think is around 5 years at least. I would be delight to have REA involved with the club for another 5 years and beyond; however let's stick to facts rather than soundbites. REA and GLS will be on the BoD's by default beyond the AGMs and the elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 Nonsense LS....REA will be on both the CIC BoD and the SMFC BoD by default. That runs on past the interim period until the social funder decides otherwise. The scoial funder will have sway voer the club until all of their debt is repaid, which I think is around 5 years at least. I would be delight to have REA involved with the club for another 5 years and beyond; however let's stick to facts rather than soundbites. REA and GLS will be on the BoD's by default beyond the AGMs and the elections. I think that lack of a democratic perception is holding a few back from throwing in with 10000 hours, probably highlighted by GLS's appearance from nowhere to getting a significant deal to cash in what were to be a slice of valuless shares. This version seems to be about GLS getting value for his shares and as we hear bit by bit apparently one or two other major shareholders in the 48%. Something about this doesn't sit right. Not the fact that people who have bought significant shares getting some vakue for them, but apparent road to damascus type changes of viewpoint, and a hearty dose of shroud waving regarding two bids that seem as hard to confirm as rocking horse shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 I don't share your sceptical outlook Somner. The deal is sitting just fine with me. Sid is right that there has been an evolution in terms of the business model and that does perhaps make it less attractive from a Community point of view, but the driver behind the evolution is that there has had to be compromises along the way to get the deal through. GLS obviously feels that the deal is fairer for the 48% shareholders and it probably is, but like Sid I would like to hear REA screaming from the rooftops now about just how much 10000hours are going to do to work with their corporate partners and community partners to make this a sound investment for all parties. You've been against the whole bid from the offset Somner. Everyone knows your views, same as they do mines - why don't we both just back off from these threads for a bit and let people make up their own minds. Neither of us are saying anything new anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mc Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 I think that lack of a democratic perception is holding a few back from throwing in with 10000 hours, probably highlighted by GLS's appearance from nowhere to getting a significant deal to cash in what were to be a slice of valuless shares. This version seems to be about GLS getting value for his shares and as we hear bit by bit apparently one or two other major shareholders in the 48%. Something about this doesn't sit right. Not the fact that people who have bought significant shares getting some vakue for them, but apparent road to damascus type changes of viewpoint, and a hearty dose of shroud waving regarding two bids that seem as hard to confirm as rocking horse shit. Knowing one of the major shareholders you highlight I'd be amazed if he wants anything for his shares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 Knowing one of the major shareholders you highlight I'd be amazed if he wants anything for his shares. I don't know who you speak of, but in my book anyone thats invested heavily in smfc when we looked like disappearing is entitled to get the value the shares should be worth. My issue is the perception that one guy for reasons best known to 10000 hours gets a distinct advantage that perhaps has not been offered to all the 48%. if there are two more sizable shareholders getting an equity deal what debt will that add to the cic? and what extension to the term of repayment might it entail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mc Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 You might be entitled but that doesn't mean you are going to take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 The anti-CIC types like somner9 have failed to find the silver bullet to kill the deal. The CIC has lacked a crucial element that would get all the fans backing it. Some have jumped in at various stages.....some for the fan empowerment, some for the community development and of late some because GLS became involved and the shareholders side appears to have been improved. Only problem is that it has lost its point - nobody really knows what it is, or why it should happen any more. The last throw of the dice has been the introduction of the two bidders to try and create some form of overarching driver based on fear as all the other messages were all over the place and missing their targets. It would good to see a final positive coherent push by 10000 Hours rather than fending off questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 Nonsense LS....REA will be on both the CIC BoD and the SMFC BoD by default. That runs on past the interim period until the social funder decides otherwise. The scoial funder will have sway voer the club until all of their debt is repaid, which I think is around 5 years at least. I would be delight to have REA involved with the club for another 5 years and beyond; however let's stick to facts rather than soundbites. REA and GLS will be on the BoD's by default beyond the AGMs and the elections. The social funder only decides otherwise for the CIC board, Richard said as much at the last meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 We have no support money for a cic. Once it was £2M.....Then £1M and now £500,000 as long as Ran*ers stay in the SPL. This bid will end in tears and SG couldn't care less. He has lives to save and I owe an apology to Stuart Dickson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktf Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 I don't know who you speak of, but in my book anyone thats invested heavily in smfc when we looked like disappearing is entitled to get the value the shares should be worth. My issue is the perception that one guy for reasons best known to 10000 hours gets a distinct advantage that perhaps has not been offered to all the 48%. if there are two more sizable shareholders getting an equity deal what debt will that add to the cic? and what extension to the term of repayment might it entail? I'm glad this is your issue, as it was answered on Thurs eve and on the Q&A thread here. It has been offered to the other main shareholders in the 48% and is open to all shareholders. The deal for them would be the same as the one for GLS. They would begin to receive payments when all the social funder loan is paid off and the CiC has a certain amount of funds in reserve (for GLS this is £100k). Satisfied...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 I'm glad this is your issue, as it was answered on Thurs eve and on the Q&A thread here. It has been offered to the other main shareholders in the 48% and is open to all shareholders. The deal for them would be the same as the one for GLS. They would begin to receive payments when all the social funder loan is paid off and the CiC has a certain amount of funds in reserve (for GLS this is £100k). Satisfied...? When will you realise that this can't possibly be delivered ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktf Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 When will you realise that this can't possibly be delivered ?? Sorry bud, I made my decision to support the bid 2 years ago. I have the courage of my convictions to stick by it. You should try it sometime, it feels good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 Sorry bud, I made my decision to support the bid 2 years ago. I have the courage of my convictions to stick by it. You should try it sometime, it feels good. Fair enough Ktf.....History will tell!......I am still in for a tenner btw but I think our chances for a true CIC are long gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktf Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 Fair enough Ktf.....History will tell!......I am still in for a tenner btw but I think our chances for a true CIC are long gone. I don't disagree. I think it's unfair to claim it's REA's fault... Anyway, you're right, history will tell - it could go either way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktf Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Unlike you Bud - You had more Information , You where up so many Anus's, Sucking so many Knob's, preaching The Richard Prayer book and playing with the Webmaster's Toy's - You forgot to involve The Fan ? YOU sir and your CIC,are a Fcking farce ! You and your " Fandans " Fcuk off . SMTID Well done Charles, you managed to go so long without being abusive and offensive! That must be some kind of record for you, eh Bud! I only had the info cos I made the calls, sent the emails and asked to meet. Nothing more than that. I cared about where the club might end up and into who's hands it would fall - so I put in the leg work. You can't blame me for that, can you? The truth is, I loved CiC mk1, cos I'm involved with a community group who I thought could really benefit from that kind of relationship with the club and vice versa. I was disappointed when it failed but made a decision to stick by the fan buyout concept. After a subsequent one or two changes, I am even more disappointed with what we have a model for fan buyout. Not because I don't think it will deliver - it will, but because it doesn't require and so doens't have the community at the heart. I think this is a crying shame but was probably the only way that it could now be delivered. Anyway, it's really a good thing that we have folks like Chic and Somner (whoever he is) and Sid AND folks like Poz and Div (who really ARE up REA's anus ) because the diversity in the support will make fan ownership stronger and healthier, if and when it goes through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Well done Charles, you managed to go so long without being abusive and offensive! That must be some kind of record for you, eh Bud! I only had the info cos I made the calls, sent the emails and asked to meet. Nothing more than that. I cared about where the club might end up and into who's hands it would fall - so I put in the leg work. You can't blame me for that, can you? The truth is, I loved CiC mk1, cos I'm involved with a community group who I thought could really benefit from that kind of relationship with the club and vice versa. I was disappointed when it failed but made a decision to stick by the fan buyout concept. After a subsequent one or two changes, I am even more disappointed with what we have a model for fan buyout. Not because I don't think it will deliver - it will, but because it doesn't require and so doens't have the community at the heart. I think this is a crying shame but was probably the only way that it could now be delivered. Anyway, it's really a good thing that we have folks like Chic and Somner (whoever he is) and Sid AND folks like Poz and Div (who really ARE up REA's anus ) because the diversity in the support will make fan ownership stronger and healthier, if and when it goes through. You are upset that the community aspect of bid MkI is diluted, while many over the last two years voiced concern that it was all about the community and not nearly enough about the football club. Aye, you certainly can't please all of the people all of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktf Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 You are upset that the community aspect of bid MkI is diluted, while many over the last two years voiced concern that it was all about the community and not nearly enough about the football club. Aye, you certainly can't please all of the people all of the time. Exactly Bud! Although, I think that is a good thing. The differences in the values of our supporters means that no one element would get too much sway. The corporate folks won't, the community folks won't and the "pick the team" types won't either! We have all that is needed to make this work - it just needs people to show a little faith and sign up!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 The clock on 10000 hours website countsdown to the death, the "Money-o-meter" has stalled well short of target and this Cic is fast catching up with Internet explorer for versions released. and has divided saints fans like no other issue. What will we talk about next week? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 The social funder only decides otherwise for the CIC board, Richard said as much at the last meeting. I don't recall that - I might have been spurging beers at the time - no matter. At best for fans there'll be 2 permanent members on the CIC BoD - REA & GLS. It is still unclear how the SMFC BoD will be structured; however it looks likely that it will be a five person BoD and that will mean three places on the SMFC BoD coming from the CIC. I believe it will be the CIC Board that votes on which Directors they put on the SMFC Board. So what do you think the chances are of it not being REA & GLS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Satisfied...? I'm not.....at what point do fans have to stop paying people looking to make money out of SMFC? When will that nonsense end and the cash being raised by fans actually start going into the club? I think it was David Mc that posted about knowing one of the larger shareholders that wouldn't be interested in taking money out of St Mirren. They aren't taking money out of St Mirren they are talking money off of St Mirren fans who are scared of what might happen to their club if they don;t back a scheme that not many actually seem that keen to back in the first place. In 8-10 years time when you would hope that the subs would start going into the club or could just be binned are we going to have one fandan after another lining up wanting to trade their shares for cash. This is robbing fans to pay off people who would fleece their fellow fans rather than see money going into the club. It might get the CIC over the initial line, but it certainly not a satisfactory situation. Trying to sell it as such is an act of madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaponsasaint Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 With the news of rangers demise, Its even more important for the fans to own the club, I think Sid and a few others will be happy if we are Rangers Mark 2, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 I think it's highly appropriate every saints fan takes stock of any attempt by parties to buy our club using someone else's money. We ceratinly don't want to end up like Rangers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 With the news of rangers demise, Its even more important for the fans to own the club, I think Sid and a few others will be happy if we are Rangers Mark 2, This is why this is a very bad time to be taking risks SPS. We have already seen KMG bring scumgers into the club. St Mirren is a strong club at the moment. It is risk that would make St Mirren vulnerable - we're as safe as houses at the moment. Very bad timing for the CIC unfortunately, but hardly the fault of me and a few others. If the debt is too much of a stretch the CIC and the club are at risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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