Two Days Left. Time To Decide, Or To Roll The Dice

[St. Sid]

Commercial / corporate 'bawbags' have sponsored St Mirren down the years and greatly helped the club, in areas such as shirt sponsorship, trackside advertising, programme advertising, sponsoring players, taking tables in CKs matchday suite, helping sell out the Premier Dinner at the Normandy, contributing greatly to long-serving players testimonial events, or, or...

Some of these 'bawbags' are known to me and they are every bit as passionate about St Mirren as an ST holder, a pay-at-the-gate punter, or those far-flung Buds' who cannot get to as many matches as they would love to.

In this economic climate, it's a tough task to sell 3k or 25k packages to these 'bawbags' - who rightly have to look at the baw-bees as the rest of us do. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the 'bawbag' take-up is lower than hoped, but the overall momentum gained so far gives me hope that a deal can be done. Individual memberships are on a roll - I'm convinced that the corporate 'bawbag' sign-ups would increase if the CIC launches. The same applies to individual take-up too of course.

Hopefully the selling consortium can see the momentum gained, and a deal can be brokered to get the ball rolling in earnest.

Someone else was bumping their gums about there being time to get the corporate bawbag / tie wearing wankers signed up. There is a lump sum required and that is dependent on the corproate bawbag / tie wearing wankers.

The sad thing about all this is that the club has been focussed on servicing the SRTBs and completely ignoring the people that are the fifeblood of the club. 10000 Hours decided to focus on the corporate bawbag tie wearing wankers and couldn;t have got it more wrong. When will the people entrusted with running Scottish football finally realise that it is the rank and file fan that funds football and not these freeloading tie wearing wankers.

[pozbaird]

Someone else was bumping their gums about there being time to get the corporate bawbag / tie wearing wankers signed up. There is a lump sum required and that is dependent on the corproate bawbag / tie wearing wankers.

The sad thing about all this is that the club has been focussed on servicing the SRTBs and completely ignoring the people that are the fifeblood of the club. 10000 Hours decided to focus on the corporate bawbag tie wearing wankers and couldn;t have got it more wrong. When will the people entrusted with running Scottish football finally realise that it is the rank and file fan that funds football and not these freeloading tie wearing wankers.

Yes there's a lump sum involved, and hopefully it will be met. If it isn't though, my hope (and it is only a hope), is that the momentum and sum that WILL be able to be offered will be enough to see the consortium and CIC come to a deal.

It would be an awful shame for it to fail now.

Edited June 18, 2012 by pozbaird

[Stuart Dickson]

Someone else was bumping their gums about there being time to get the corporate bawbag / tie wearing wankers signed up. There is a lump sum required and that is dependent on the corproate bawbag / tie wearing wankers.

The sad thing about all this is that the club has been focussed on servicing the SRTBs and completely ignoring the people that are the fifeblood of the club. 10000 Hours decided to focus on the corporate bawbag tie wearing wankers and couldn;t have got it more wrong. When will the people entrusted with running Scottish football finally realise that it is the rank and file fan that funds football and not these freeloading tie wearing wankers.

I think they pitched it wrong too Sid. For £25k I'd want something better than sausage rolls. For some reason the fans were targeting Greggs consumers when they needed to be looking at the kind of person who visits The Ivy.

[St. Sid]

Yes there's a lump sum involved, and hopefully it will be met. If it isn't though, my hope (and it is only a hope), is that the momentum and sum that WILL be able to be offered will be enough to see the consortium and CIC come to a deal.

It would be an awful shame for it to fail now.

This was already getting very sketchy in terms of how the finances were going to work. I think it would be fair to fans to understand the implications of any changes in how this is being financed. Gambling on more corporate bawbags / tie wearing wankers signing up at a later date does not instill any confidence in how this is going to work. The lump sums + the oversubscriptions would have been great - however if there is a significant gap in the capital investment we need to understand the risks involved in changing the model - and the details weren't there in the first place.

Fans are delivering this.....why are they still bottom of the heap when it comes to rights / benefits / outcomes?

It has gone from being about how fans can have the club that they want to becoming a toy for corporate bawbag / tie wearing wankers. All the things that fans would want - lowering the pricing / bigger crowds, etc has been dumped for corporate networking and mutual masturbation events. All the effort to schmuse the corporate bawbags and they don't show up for the club.....fans get threatened with foreign ownership and they put in an unbelievable effort. But so long as youu look like johnny twodicks down the golf club that's fine.

'Mon the real fans!!!!

[saint_dave]

Signed up tonight

[pozbaird]

Signed up tonight

Hopefully for a 25k package!?

[reborn saint]

Hopefully for a 25k package!?

Frank McAvennie once had a few of them..

[David Mc]

Yes there's a lump sum involved, and hopefully it will be met. If it isn't though, my hope (and it is only a hope), is that the momentum and sum that WILL be able to be offered will be enough to see the consortium and CIC come to a deal.

It would be an awful shame for it to fail now.

I say this without malice. It's getting to the stage that the consortium will have to accept the offer from the CIC in some shape or form. The alternative is that there will be close to a 1,000 supporters feeling as if they've done their bit and been let down by the consortium. The CIC have the upperhand now for that reason IMO.

[saint_dave]

Hopefully for a 25k package!?

My package size is nowt to do with folk on here , thanks.

Im open to offers though ;)

[gbain]

Would of been interesting to see how many people would have signed upto the 87 club at £3000 if this was allowed to be paid over a 3 year period a rather than an upfront payment.

If this is going to be a big stumbling issue with the final bid, then surely this could of been an option a few weeks ago if it was noticed that the numbers were low.

[gbain]

Already signed up for the 87 club , just pointing out that I believe the may have been a bigger take up on this membership if more information had been given to the fans on the emails that we have been receiving over the past few weeks.

[ktf]

I say this without malice. It's getting to the stage that the consortium will have to accept the offer from the CIC in some shape or form. The alternative is that there will be close to a 1,000 supporters feeling as if they've done their bit and been let down by the consortium. The CIC have the upperhand now for that reason IMO.

I think this is very true, however I doubt it would because of fan pressure as such. These are experienced and successful business people, SG is hard-nosed and knows his own mind.

I think though that the consortium may sell to 10000 Hours not because they have to but because they want to. They love this club, folks like SG have bled for the club and are hardcore fans. I think they want nothing more than to see the club safely into the hands of the fans - even if it means they need to take a hit on their return to make it happen. The consortium could come out of this whole thing as heros - the men (and woman) who made fan ownership a reality at St Mirren!

[ADMITCHELL]

gbain,

I think the problem with paying up these memberships is they are required to fund the first payment as it were of 900,000. So if you were allowed to stagger the payments say 1,000 for 3 years rather than 3,000 up front you would need 261 87club members rather than 87 and likewise the 77 club. It just seems difficult whatever way you look at it.

Edited June 18, 2012 by ADMITCHELL

[gbain]

gbain,

I think the problem with paying up these memberships is they are required to fund the first payment as it were of 900,000. So if you were allowed to stagger the payments say 1,000 for 3 years rather than 3,000 up front you would need 261 87club members rather than 87 and likewise the 77 club. It just seems difficult whatever way you look at it.

i know where you are coming from on this, just struggling to see where they are going to get a final rush onthe 87club membership,

[div]

There is a finance option available on the 87club membership which is financed through the same credit company who do the season tickets (Zebra).

Half a dozen or so people have contacted 10000Hours asking about taking out a membership in this way so it was setup and the option is there for anyone interested.

Pretty sure it is only available over 2 years though.

It was decided not to shout about this very loudly because bid team did not want to be seen to be actively asking fans to put themselves into personal debt, or to potentially over stretch themselves to try and help he bid.

If this is of interest to anyone then send an email to [email protected] and Richard will explain how it works.

[TsuMirren]

There is a finance option available on the 87club membership which is financed through the same credit company who do the season tickets (Zebra).

Half a dozen or so people have contacted 10000Hours asking about taking out a membership in this way so it was setup and the option is there for anyone interested.

Pretty sure it is only available over 2 years though.

It was decided not to shout about this very loudly because bid team did not want to be seen to be actively asking fans to put themselves into personal debt, or to potentially over stretch themselves to try and help he bid.

If this is of interest to anyone then send an email to [email protected] and Richard will explain how it works.

If you don't have 3K you're highly unlikely to have £125 a month, fair play to any of the half dozen who do and then take it up.

[David Mc]

I think this is very true, however I doubt it would because of fan pressure as such. These are experienced and successful business people, SG is hard-nosed and knows his own mind.

I think though that the consortium may sell to 10000 Hours not because they have to but because they want to. They love this club, folks like SG have bled for the club and are hardcore fans. I think they want nothing more than to see the club safely into the hands of the fans - even if it means they need to take a hit on their return to make it happen. The consortium could come out of this whole thing as heros - the men (and woman) who made fan ownership a reality at St Mirren!

Agreed. They must have anticipated the possibility of the current situation in the game of chess that has gone on. And they do favour the CIC. Just that now that the situation is a reality they must know they are almost obliged to go with the CIC's best offer.

[St. Sid]

I say this without malice. It's getting to the stage that the consortium will have to accept the offer from the CIC in some shape or form. The alternative is that there will be close to a 1,000 supporters feeling as if they've done their bit and been let down by the consortium. The CIC have the upperhand now for that reason IMO.

It all depends on whether the deal remains commercially confidential......I suspect SG coming out and saying that 10000 Hours failed to demonstrate a workable financial model to support the club / secure the future of the club would be pretty acceptable to most fans.

[animal]

There is a finance option available on the 87club membership which is financed through the same credit company who do the season tickets (Zebra).

Half a dozen or so people have contacted 10000Hours asking about taking out a membership in this way so it was setup and the option is there for anyone interested.

Pretty sure it is only available over 2 years though.

It was decided not to shout about this very loudly because bid team did not want to be seen to be actively asking fans to put themselves into personal debt, or to potentially over stretch themselves to try and help he bid.

If this is of interest to anyone then send an email to [email protected] and Richard will explain how it works.

I usually charge for giving financial advice but here is some for free - DON'T DO IT !

If you cannot afford the £3,000 please please don't go and borrow it. I have been against this scheme from day one but if people think it's worth £10 a month (AND YOU CAN AFFORD IT) then let your heart rule your head and sign up. The CIC / Co-op is very uncharted financial ground. I am not 100% certain what would happen to your £3000 if this all ends in tears but I cannot see any real guarentee that you would get your money back.

I do not know what APR the £3,000 would be borrowed at over 2 years but you will end up paying a lot more than £3,000. If you want to support the Club buy a season ticket(s) or put the money into SMFC Ltd via sponsorship etc.

I think it is irresponsible for you to be promoting this 'loan' scheme in any way.

Even with yet another extension to try and add to the sign ups, I cannot see how the amounts pledged so far can finance in any sensible way, the £1,500,000 cost of the shares. Even if SG and Co. accept some kind of cut down or extended version of this scheme it looks so underfinanced that it could collapse under a very little financial strain at some point in the not too distant future.

I suspect most supporters would like to see the new team from Ibrox not take part in the SPL, but the potential financial strain it may create in the balance sheets of all the other SPL clubs cannot be ignored. You may find the CIC / Co op becoming the final victim of the Rangers saga.

Edited June 19, 2012 by animal

[steve_the_saint]

I usually charge for giving financial advice but here is some for free - DON'T DO IT !

If you cannot afford the £3,000 please please don't go and borrow it. I have been against this scheme from day one but if people think it's worth £10 a month (AND YOU CAN AFFORD IT) then let your heart rule your head and sign up. The CIC / Co-op is very uncharted financial ground. I am not 100% certain what would happen to your £3000 if this all ends in tears but I cannot see any real guarentee that you would get your money back.

I do not know what APR the £3,000 would be borrowed at over 2 years but you will end up paying a lot more than £3,000. If you want to support the Club buy a season ticket(s) or put the money into SMFC Ltd via sponsorship etc.

I think it is irresponsible for you to be promoting this 'loan' scheme in any way.

Even with yet another extension to try and add to the sign ups, I cannot see how the amounts pledged so far can finance in any sensible way, the £1,500,000 cost of the shares. Even if SG and Co. accept some kind of cut down or extended version of this scheme it looks so underfinanced that it could collapse under a very little financial strain at some point in the not too distant future.

I suspect most supporters would like to see the new team from Ibrox not take part in the SPL, but the potential financial strain it may create in the balance sheets of all the other SPL clubs cannot be ignored. You may find the CIC / Co op becoming the final victim of the Rangers saga.

To be fair, I think div was just responding to previous posts that pondered whether if the 3000 could have been paid in installments from the off, would we have the 87 club more subscribed.

It sounds slightly patronizing of you to assume that 87club sign ups haven't thought it through. In fact, if someone has 3g spare I would think theyve been relatively successful in life and won't need to listen to fairly obvious comments from yourself.

Yes, we are trusting REA et al that the business plan is robust enough to thrive after the deal is done, but everyone involved has been successful enough in business and for me personally, that's enough.

And I don't see how the demise of club 12 can affect 10k hours. The club, possibly, but not the company owning the club.

[animal]

To be fair, I think div was just responding to previous posts that pondered whether if the 3000 could have been paid in installments from the off, would we have the 87 club more subscribed.

It sounds slightly patronizing of you to assume that 87club sign ups haven't thought it through. In fact, if someone has 3g spare I would think theyve been relatively successful in life and won't need to listen to fairly obvious comments from yourself.

Yes, we are trusting REA et al that the business plan is robust enough to thrive after the deal is done, but everyone involved has been successful enough in business and for me personally, that's enough.

And I don't see how the demise of club 12 can affect 10k hours. The club, possibly, but not the company owning the club.

Sorry if I sound 'patronizing' but it I have a very genuine concern for the financial problems of someone who lets their heart rule their head. If you need a high APR loan you do not have 3g spare - Simples - as the meerkats say.

I am very very far from convinced that Mr A is "successful enough in business", and I am very convinced that his financial model is unsustainable.

If you don't see the connection between Rangers and SMFC and the CIC / CO op. I am afraid I cannot help you !

Edited June 19, 2012 by animal

[civilsaint]

Only Animal could turn a post that carefully explains why 10000 hours have not promoted a scheme making use of credit facilities into some kind of negative nonesense about encouraging fans to take on debt.

Thick or personal agenda? I'm sure most posters have already decided.

[reborn saint]

Only Animal could turn a post that carefully explains why 10000 hours have not promoted a scheme making use of credit facilities into some kind of negative nonesense about encouraging fans to take on debt.

Thick or personal agenda? I'm sure most posters have already decided.

Well i did long ago.....Shareholder who wanted money ..close to McGeogh??

[Stuart Dickson]

Sorry if I sound 'patronizing' but it I have a very genuine concern for the financial problems of someone who lets their heart rule their head. If you need a high APR loan you do not have 3g spare - Simples - as the meerkats say.

I am very very far from convinced that Mr A is "successful enough in business", and I am very convinced that his financial model is unsustainable.

If you don't see the connection between Rangers and SMFC and the CIC / CO op. I am afraid I cannot help you !

Animal, first off I agree with you about the sanity of any individual borrowing £3k at any sort of APR for use of a car parking space, a chance to jump the queue at the bar and for some advertising. It doesn't make sense to me at all - just as it didn't make sense to me the previous board offering shares on finance, or season tickets on finance either. No-one should ever be over extending their finances for a football club no matter how "loyal" they think they are,

However I can't agree with you on the CIC. I've got a query against the figures but the statements from 10000hours have been clear, they will only bid what they can afford, and if the subscriptions from the 77's and 87's group don't make target that bid may well fall short of the £1.5m. So far as the costings are concerned for the finance package that was being funded by individual members we are told it's now 145% of target.

I've got no concerns at all about the financial viability of 10000hours or of what they are proposing and there certainly isn't a similarity to Rangers at all.

[div]

I think it is irresponsible for you to be promoting this 'loan' scheme in any way.

Maybe you missed this bit in my post;

Half a dozen or so people have contacted 10000Hours asking about taking out a membership in this way so it was setup and the option is there for anyone interested.

It was decided not to shout about this very loudly because bid team did not want to be seen to be actively asking fans to put themselves into personal debt, or to potentially over stretch themselves to try and help he bid.