Joint Statement By 10000Hours And Selling Consortium

[DXBBud]

I'm reading this as a newco voted out and resulting in a drop in income will mean the takeover won't happen. The bid is dependent on current income being maintained.

Who says the absence of the zombies will reduce revenue. Look at it sensibly.

Say we get one home game and 2 away at Ibrokes, all Saints get is one game with a spike in away fans which is off-set by a potential drop in home fans due to the generally unpleasant nature of the visitors.

Compare that with the strong possibility of a more open and competitive fight for league positions 2-12 (assuming that the other cheek of the arse have the league wrapped up by Christmas). There is a very real possibility that the absence of the zombies will bring greater numbers through the gates.

Of course, we don't know how Mr. Murdoch will act if the zombies end up in SFL3 or even suspended/expelled.

Too many unknowns and variables I think for even the most gifted mathematician to come up with an answer resembling what will actually happen.

Edited June 22, 2012 by DXBBud

[div]

It's not just as simple as ticking a Yes/No box unfortunately here. We have to outline various scenarios occurring and then ask members to respond accordingly based on each of those scenarios.

All 10000hours members (currently 984) will be asked to complete a secure online survey on the NewCo question. The wording of those questions is currently under consideration and we hope to be able to launch this very soon.

We have to protect the integrity of the survey so unfortunately it can't just be published as an online link for anyone to take part.

The survey will instead be sent to each email address we have in our GoCardless system, The link to the survey will be a one time use only which is specific to that email address, all of this prevents the survey from being open to abuse from outside influences.

Remember here that this is intended to deliver the opinion of the 10000Hours members to the board, it is not definining the decision the board will make which remains entirely their call to make.

[TsuMirren]

Simple Q & A...no spin expected, or wanted for that matter.

If there were no doubts about the Rangers situation, or if it didn't even exist, would the deal offered by 10000 Hours have been accepted by the Consortium?

[St. Sid]

It's not just as simple as ticking a Yes/No box unfortunately here. We have to outline various scenarios occurring and then ask members to respond accordingly based on each of those scenarios.

All 10000hours members (currently 984) will be asked to complete a secure online survey on the NewCo question. The wording of those questions is currently under consideration and we hope to be able to launch this very soon.

We have to protect the integrity of the survey so unfortunately it can't just be published as an online link for anyone to take part.

The survey will instead be sent to each email address we have in our GoCardless system, The link to the survey will be a one time use only which is specific to that email address, all of this prevents the survey from being open to abuse from outside influences.

Remember here that this is intended to deliver the opinion of the 10000Hours members to the board, it is not definining the decision the board will make which remains entirely their call to make.

Div, this is as straight forward as any question can possibly be. The fans don't want scumgers in the league - if Bii or 10000 Hours don't like that then they can get ti f"k.

[Stuart Dickson]

And the St Mirren swing-on-meter once again swings wildly from one extreme to the other!

Look read the info for what it is. The deal is still on and 10000hours members will be consulted on the Newco vote. Thats what the majority of members wanted and its being delivered. Now hopefully the SMFC board and 10000hours will provide the arguments for and against so members can make a rational decision based on the facts.

To be completely honest I'm delighted that 10000hours will not be forced to buy the club at what is the worst possible moment. Lets step back and see how it plays out instead of all this ranting wild eyed speculation

[St. Sid]

Simple Q & A...no spin expected, or wanted for that matter.

If there were no doubts about the Rangers situation, or if it didn't even exist, would the deal offered by 10000 Hours have been accepted by the Consortium?

It is the offer that has depencies not the acceptance. 10000 Hours have put conditions relating to SPL income in their offer.

[Bud the Baker]

Remember here that this is intended to deliver the opinion of the 10000Hours members to the board, it is not definining the decision the board will make which remains entirely their call to make.

Leaving the CIC entirely free of any responsibility, apart from presumably old 10000hours himself!

[TsuMirren]

Who says the absence of the zombies will reduce revenue. Look at it sensibly.

Say we get one home game and 2 away at Ibrokes, all Saints get is one game with a spike in away fans which is off-set by a potential drop in home fans due to the generally unpleasant nature of the visitors.

Compare that with the strong possibility of a more open and competitive fight for league positions 2-12 (assuming that the other cheek of the arse have the league wrapped up by Christmas). There is a very real possibility that the absence of the zombies will bring greater numbers through the gates.

Of course, we don't know how Mr. Murdoch will act if the zombies end up in SFL3 or even suspended/expelled.

Too many unknowns and variables I think for even the most gifted mathematician to come up with an answer resembling what will actually happen.

In the past fans have come out for one off matches, usually title deciders or relegation deciders. If this entire season was sold as the best chance Saints will ever have of finishing second then surely fans would come out to games. That would, of course, mean the PDE doing some pretty good articles and other Saints fans in the media actually pushing the club instead of their (amazing how the word her is in the word their) own petty agenda.

Indeed, the entire league should be pushed as a new beginning...then Levein should be sacked, but that's just ludicrous talk.

[pod]

With binning the Newco(which is looking inevitable) and possible lose of revenue(Sky),it may also scare of the supposedly other interested party's. Swinging the bargaining power over to the 10000hr to negotiate a better deal with the selling consortium.

Just my opinion.

[HSS]

I wonder how many pledges will be lost if we vote yes.

[St. Sid]

To be completely honest I'm delighted that 10000hours will not be forced to buy the club at what is the worst possible moment. Lets step back and see how it plays out instead of all this ranting wild eyed speculation

It is 10000 Hours conditions though. They must have known about these conditions at the public meeting - why the secret? Does anyone else remember these conditions being presented? Aren't we entitled to know what these conditions are as we're supposed to be the owners?

[TsuMirren]

Being "subject" to conditions doesn't necessarily mean that the 10000 Hours bid has conditions attached. Richard did mention that the funder had conditions, but you'd hope they'd realise that not having Rangers in the SPL might actually mean more chance of realising some social return through delivering training programmes or whatever. The yes/no over Newco is a no brainer for fans, even with the club itself being there as it's not going to die. Rangers have cheated beyond any realms to date, be that Hadjuk Split, Neuchatel Xamax, Fiorentina, Juventus, Leeds United, Luton Town, Dundee or whomever else. They've shown no remorse and their fans are going on about investment and being the people, whilst Ally McCoist has obviously been put in to cold storage after his moronic "we demand to know who these people are" venture in to orcland. It's a no, plain and simple...it doesn't need a whole series of questions such as "A No vote would see Saints miss out on X income", sell someone and play the kids that we keep hearing about instead of loaning them out then releasing them.

[div]

It is 10000 Hours conditions though. They must have known about these conditions at the public meeting - why the secret? Does anyone else remember these conditions being presented? Aren't we entitled to know what these conditions are as we're supposed to be the owners?

The conditions mentioned were indeed mentioned at the meeting on 7th June and are mentioned on page three of the powerpoint presentation which you can download here;

http://www.10000hour...ntation0706.pdf

There is no conspiracy here, nothing is being hidden. The facts are that we (10000hours) are buying a business, and the people lending us a big chunk of that money to help us buy that business want to understand that the business is sustainable and isn't going to collapse in a heap in two months time.

At the moment nobody knows what is going to happen to the SPL revenues next season.

Sky have a clause they can invoke once Rangers are out of the league which allows them, if they so wish, to exit the contract. That is a fact and whilst it seems unlikely it still COULD happen.

IF that scenario came to pass then perhaps the fans would simply rally round and start pledging money to help keep the club afloat. Would they really be in a position to do that AND continue their 10000Hours subscriptions and gate money all at the same time ? I would suspect not.

This is of course a doomsday scenario but it would be foolish in the extreme not to at least consider the implications of what could come to pass.

I can't see any problem in delaying things for 2-3 weeks more so that we can understand exactly the lie of the land.

Again, it's simple common sense and the same prudent approach that the current board have used to guide the club successfully through the last 20 years.

[St. Sid]

Being "subject" to conditions doesn't necessarily mean that the 10000 Hours bid has conditions attached. Richard did mention that the funder had conditions, but you'd hope they'd realise that not having Rangers in the SPL might actually mean more chance of realising some social return through delivering training programmes or whatever. The yes/no over Newco is a no brainer for fans, even with the club itself being there as it's not going to die. Rangers have cheated beyond any realms to date, be that Hadjuk Split, Neuchatel Xamax, Fiorentina, Juventus, Leeds United, Luton Town, Dundee or whomever else. They've shown no remorse and their fans are going on about investment and being the people, whilst Ally McCoist has obviously been put in to cold storage after his moronic "we demand to know who these people are" venture in to orcland. It's a no, plain and simple...it doesn't need a whole series of questions such as "A No vote would see Saints miss out on X income", sell someone and play the kids that we keep hearing about instead of loaning them out then releasing them.

Your making excuses again TsuMirren......rather than trying to put a spin on this on behalf of 10000 Hours who appear to have been reduced to pressing the likey button why now demand clarification on what the conditions are and who has placed these conditions on the offer.

The big question has to be - if scumgers are not in the league and the SPL revenues drop are Bii pulling out. That way we can save ourselves a lot of time and stress and just pull the plug on this nonsense now.

[div]

It's a no, plain and simple...it doesn't need a whole series of questions such as "A No vote would see Saints miss out on X income", sell someone and play the kids that we keep hearing about instead of loaning them out then releasing them.

If this was happening at the end of the season that is about to begin you may well be right.

Unfortunately (or Fortunately depending on how you look at it) we have 23 first team players who are all contracted to play for St.Mirren next season. We have to pay those players wages.

It's also not quite as simple as "sell someone". Who would you sell and who to and for how much ?

Our most saleable assets are probably McLean, McGowan and Carey. Two of those players we would have to pay a hefty chunk of any transfer fee away to Celtic because of sell on clauses and in a fire sale situation we would get peanuts for McLean.

Time to get real a bit. If Sky were to walk away from Scottish Football and exit the current contract (which for the record I can't see them doing) then we as a Football Club would be in serious trouble.

If we were on the brink the fans would rally round I am sure and help to try and bridge the gap, but we are talking several hundred thousand pounds here, this isn't just a few bob.

There is no big panic to conclude this deal today other than the fact that everyone is weary with how long it has dragged on and because everyone wanted to get a vote on NewCo. Now we are getting to influence the NewCo decision but with the safety net of waiting until the financial situation in the SPL is clearer.

[St. Sid]

The facts are that we (10000hours) are buying a business, and the people lending us a big chunk of that money to help us buy that business want to understand that the business is sustainable and isn't going to collapse in a heap in two months time.

So the one group that has actually seen the numbers disnae fancy it that much. We started out with how many social funders - was it 6 or 7? Now we are down to one and they don't sound like they fancy it that much either. The other group that may have seen some of the numbers, SMiSA have pulled out - currently.

10000 Hours are effectively blocking the consortium from committing to a "no" vote along with the other clubs who have done what every St Mirren fan wants them to do. Surely, you of all people must be boaking about this. Is 10000 Hours so important to you now that you would vote for scumgers to stay in the SPL?

[St. Sid]

If this was happening at the end of the season that is about to begin you may well be right.

Unfortunately (or Fortunately depending on how you look at it) we have 23 first team players who are all contracted to play for St.Mirren next season. We have to pay those players wages.

It's also not quite as simple as "sell someone". Who would you sell and who to and for how much ?

Our most saleable assets are probably McLean, McGowan and Carey. Two of those players we would have to pay a hefty chunk of any transfer fee away to Celtic because of sell on clauses and in a fire sale situation we would get peanuts for McLean.

Time to get real a bit. If Sky were to walk away from Scottish Football and exit the current contract (which for the record I can't see them doing) then we as a Football Club would be in serious trouble.

If we were on the brink the fans would rally round I am sure and help to try and bridge the gap, but we are talking several hundred thousand pounds here, this isn't just a few bob.

There is no big panic to conclude this deal today other than the fact that everyone is weary with how long it has dragged on and because everyone wanted to get a vote on NewCo. Now we are getting to influence the NewCo decision but with the safety net of waiting until the financial situation in the SPL is clearer.

Bring back the red dots Div.

[div]

The big question has to be - if scumgers are not in the league and the SPL revenues drop are Bii pulling out. That way we can save ourselves a lot of time and stress and just pull the plug on this nonsense now.

Rangers are not important in this per se. Sky TV carry the keys.

Sky won't comment publically on their position for fear of being seen to influence the vote. They will say nothing until after the vote and they know exactly what the position is with the SPL.

If Rangers are out as I think they will be, then its realistic to assume Sky will want to re-negotiate their deal, but by how much is anyones guess. If they are the only show in town then it will be easy for them to squeeze.

Put bluntly, if Sky was to walk away and leave the SPL with NO TV Revenue then we would be off our nut to want to buy the football club as it would be in administration itself within a few months. That is the harsh reality of what we are talking about in a doomsday scenario.

[St. Sid]

Rangers are not important in this per se. Sky TV carry the keys.

Sky won't comment publically on their position for fear of being seen to influence the vote. They will say nothing until after the vote and they know exactly what the position is with the SPL.

If Rangers are out as I think they will be, then its realistic to assume Sky will want to re-negotiate their deal, but by how much is anyones guess. If they are the only show in town then it will be easy for them to squeeze.

Put bluntly, if Sky was to walk away and leave the SPL with NO TV Revenue then we would be off our nut to want to buy the football club as it would be in administration itself within a few months. That is the harsh reality of what we are talking about in a doomsday scenario.

I'm embarrassed for you:

[Drew]

I wonder how many pledges will be lost if we vote yes.

If the current BoD vote yes, I will not attend another SPL match but I won't withdraw my DD mandate.

For me, an element of fan ownership is the way forward for our club, and I have offered my support to this. Our current board voting in favour of permitting a NewCo entry shouldn't necessarily reflect on, or affect, this. Nevertheless, i won't condone a rigged sham of a competition by attending matches. Instead, I would seek to influence change by remaining a member of the CiC (assuming the bid is ultimately successful) and hope that the radical overhaul required to resuscitate our game will take place, allowing me to return to attending matches at some point in the future.

[Hambud]

It’s encouraging to know the club wants to know the fans opinion on a NEWCO.

Maybe I am reading the statement wrongly in which case I will be more than happy if someone points out I’m wrong. Between the lines to me it looks as though we need the NEWCO to remain in the SPL. That sounds contradictory to what I have wrote in my first sentence but it’s what sticks out when reading the whole statement. We need the Tv cash so upon an official sky statement we can’t say one way or another whether the bid will be accepted.

So during the loan period we are at the mercy of a TV channel ? If I was a bank manager and knew that I would say thanks but no thanks

Not impressed with the statement it’s sitting on the fence scared to jump into ether side in case it upsets the fans which I see more and more from 10,000 hours which I am getting a bad taste

I think it is more that 10000hrs cannot make the bid if the TV money is withdrawn. I'm glad that it has been postpned until we know w on what field we are playing/what hymn sheet we are singing from etc. It would be financial suicide to embark on a business model that relies on a source of income that could be removed within the next week.

[TsuMirren]

Why on earth would SKY walk away when they:

- Are Showing Irish football.

- Have fans of the other 11 Scottish clubs all within their subscriber database.

- Show everything from Badminton to Darts, which all get crowds of less than Football.

- Have betting companies and other companies, some Scottish, who have their adverts on during Scottish football and obviously want the custom from Scottish viewers.

- Use every opportunity to go on about people from the UK (we all know they mean England) being denied access to sport in this Olympic year.

- Could easily do proper reports, as they do about every club in England, on the Scottish scene to make Sky Sports News less repetitive.

- Have weekends where the only football they show is from the Scottish Premier League.

- Employ a number of people specifically to cover Scottish football, each under contracts that I doubt are season by season.

[AllyR]

A company is only worth (in financial terms) the value of potential future cashflows. If cash inflows are uncertain then the asking price for shares in a company are uncertain. Perhaps 1.5m is too high an asking price at this present time. As a signed up member of the CIC I would expect those runnning the CIC to drive the best bargain possible in terms of what we pay for the club. Therefore a delay in purchase seems to be a prudent, sensible approach.

[Stuart Dickson]

Away from the tin foil conspiracies and wild eye speculation, can I just say I'm pretty excited about seeing this in action. As you know WWW 98's are signed up as 10000hours members. I presume as CIC members the team will be allowed a vote as well. So I'm looking forward to taking the information presented both for and against a Rangers Newco playing in the SPL and presenting it to a team of 14 year old Motherwell, Rangers, Celtic and the Albion Rovers fans and getting them to instruct me on how to cast their vote. After all those 14 year olds are probably going to be the ONLY people taking part in ANY NEWCO SPL vote who are not currently involved in professional football, but who harbour dreams of securing a career in a sport that may destroy itself over this very issue.

As far as I can make out the other clubs have only consulted with supporters organisations who will represent only adult members.

[elvis]

Rangers are not important in this per se. Sky TV carry the keys.

Sky won't comment publically on their position for fear of being seen to influence the vote. They will say nothing until after the vote and they know exactly what the position is with the SPL.

If Rangers are out as I think they will be, then its realistic to assume Sky will want to re-negotiate their deal, but by how much is anyones guess. If they are the only show in town then it will be easy for them to squeeze.

Put bluntly, if Sky was to walk away and leave the SPL with NO TV Revenue then we would be off our nut to want to buy the football club as it would be in administration itself within a few months. That is the harsh reality of what we are talking about in a doomsday scenario.

So you are trying to say that without sky money every club outside of Celtic will be in Administration.Because we are ment to be one of the better off clubs and you are saying we would be in it then the other clubs have no chance of surviving.So Sky would be seen to have been the death of Scottish football if they pulled out and they would not want to be seen as the bad guys in all of this so it aint going to happen .As far as i can see this is just pure scare mongering on a few peoples part maybe to try get more fans on board .......Come to think off it why the hell even put a bid in in the first place if it bothers them that much.