div Posted June 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 ok i'll go back to school next term and finish off english exams, you do know i'll now be expecting perfect punctuation and grammar from yourself from now on Shhh, nobody mention the Grammar ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted June 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Div we have one guy on a crusade for whatever reason to bring this whole thing down. I've stayed out of all the 10000 Hours debate for long and weary but I don't see why we should all pander to Sid's demands. He is in a minority of, if not 1, then not very many. Ignore him, he's not worth bothering with. If you said black he'd say white. What I would say is this whole episode shows what a thankless task it will be for whatever "lucky" fan/(s) gets a place on the CIC board. Feels like more than that to me but that's exactly why I will never sit in any board relating to the football club, I don't have thick enough skin for the job and am too easily offended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mc Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Seems like you didn't read it and decided to stoop to my level. Look at the pish we've been presented with again today - back of a fag packet statement with no real information.......then we have the usual online team posting rumour after rumour about administration, just as we had high level spurious shite at the public meeting - followed up with nonsense about Angelo Massone - I asked the man - he has not now or ever so much as expressed an interest in buying St Mirren. We are told the club is in serious threat of going into administration. Where is the evidence to support this? Not a f'k'n bean of evidence has been provided - the only spurious number we have associated with scumgers not being in the SPL was in relation to a vote about the newco - £500K - guess what it came from 10000 Hours and not SMFC. If our club is seriously heading for administration we should get more information than we have had now - once again we get soundbites rather than facts. Where is the breakdown of the losses that will be made? If you've got them post them? By not answering the question of what you how you are going to mobilise the '99% of the support SCREAMING!!!! for SMFC to make a statement that they will vote no' you clearly share the sentiment with says it all. You have no real intention. It's a real pity as you are the person most on here and a cool clear headed debate would be very valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintargyll Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 The problem we (10000hours) have is that we are buying a business at the end of the day. A business that takes over 60% of it's revenues from commercial SPL TV and Sponsorship deals. 10000Hours need some assurances about the future of these deals before we, or our funder, can commit to the deal. The selling consortium can't currently guarantee these deals will still be in place (nobody currently can) and they are similarly concerned about our ability as a fledgling organisation to deal with the nightmare scenario of those deals disappearing or being drastically reduced almost overnight. So it is prudent and sensible for both parties to wait until there is more clarity on exactly what the position is before proceeding on either side.. The size of the bid made is what we can afford to pay back and we have managed to monetise the additional £4k per month in direct debits we have received from individuals in order to make the up front bid as attractive as we possibly can. Be in absolutely no doubt, our deal is NOT dependent on NewCo being in the SPL, but our deal is very much dependent on St.Mirren FC being able to trade in the SPL as a going concern. The TV and sponsorship money the club takes from the SPL is a huge part of the clubs turnover whether you or I like it or not. If 60% of the clubs income was to disappear overnight, with a playing squad of 23 or so first team players all contracted to be paid this season based on that revenue being there then the club would be in serious trouble. The board want to gather the fans opinion on the NewCo vote but they also want to make absolutely sure that the fans are given all the necessary information to allow them to make an informed decision rather than a knee jerk one. None of this is negative in any way, it's just plain common sense. So when the club moved grounds debt free we find ourselves dependent on a TV deal? how the f**k did that happen?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Or an equally reliable source http://www.dailymail...ug-TV-deal.html It was also in 'the sun', not generally considered the most reliable of sources, but given it's owned by the same company I'd say it's probably the most appropriate source in this instance. We won't walk away, but we want a new deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 If what’s been reported is true regarding Newco Blues dropping to division one then I can just about bare that given our own situation financially. It’s a half way compromise that will keep sky onboard while playoff’s at long last are introduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintargyll Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 If what’s been reported is true regarding Newco Blues dropping to division one then I can just about bare that given our own situation financially. It’s a half way compromise that will keep sky onboard while playoff’s at long last are introduced. i wouldnt bet on them getting into div 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint in exile Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I wouldn't give far flung fuds a lick at ma shite never mind a say in the running of the club. Who the f"k do these jokers think they are? Buy a rubber duck online every five years and then want to make decisions that will impact on real supporters that attend games week in week out. No one asked them to leave their community. Great that they keep in touch with the club; however they should know their place. They can pay their tenner; however their vote should only count say a tenth of a proper fans vote.... and that goes for you too. A helluva lot of the 'far flung fuds' have supported Saints for a lot longer than you, and many of them were born into it, unlike you. Physical distance from the ground is irrelevant. 'Know their place' - you really take the biscuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windae cleaner Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Div we have one guy on a crusade for whatever reason to bring this whole thing down. I've stayed out of all the 10000 Hours debate for long and weary but I don't see why we should all pander to Sid's demands. He is in a minority of, if not 1, then not very many. Ignore him, he's not worth bothering with. If you said black he'd say white. What I would say is this whole episode shows what a thankless task it will be for whatever "lucky" fan/(s) gets a place on the CIC board. I don't understand it he was the biggest CIC supporter when it first came to lightNow he's biggest critic As Div says there's more to this than meets the eye. It's like a lover spurned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I don't understand it he was the biggest CIC supporter when it first came to light Now he's biggest critic As Div says there's more to this than meets the eye. It's like a lover spurned That's not very fair windae cleaner. I have explained in another post the reason for my change. When this all began we have £750,000.00 of grant funding we could access. That made a helluve difference - it also opened up access to more grant funding. That has gone. The selling price is probably sitting somewhere around the £1.2million mark now. That is what it would have gone through at. The membership scheme would have easily covered the balance. The finances are now a mess. A massive depndency on tenner-a-month subs. 10000 hours leaders have failed to sell the £25K memberships and even fell short on the £3K club. And that's before you consider the £600K gap in funding. We have gone from being able to progress this deal using grant money and quickly moving to real sums of money going into the football club to having years of debt. I was still swithering at that point. Now we have revelations about Bii - effectively a bank loan - not fancying the CIC being able to weather the upcoming financial storm from the scumgers fallout. I supported a financial positive move for the club - that is no longer what we have. We now have the last desperate attempts at making this happen at all costs. This is no longer a good deal for SMFC, and that is what really matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted June 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 We now have the last desperate attempts at making this happen at all costs. That is actually the polar opposite of what we have. We are trying to make sure that this only happens if it's right for us and the club. We are potentially holding on the hard earned cash of 1,000 St.Mirren fans and yet you (not one of those people) are actively criticising us for being unwilling to commit that money into buying the club when the financial environment around that club is very unrpedictable and very volatile. This is actually a great demonstration of how much 10000Hours values it's members finances and should be celebrated rather then being criticised. The fact that none of the members are criticising it (not a single member has pulled out since the statement yesterday) speaks volumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windae cleaner Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 That's not very fair windae cleaner. I have explained in another post the reason for my change. When this all began we have £750,000.00 of grant funding we could access. That made a helluve difference - it also opened up access to more grant funding. That has gone. The selling price is probably sitting somewhere around the £1.2million mark now. That is what it would have gone through at. The membership scheme would have easily covered the balance. The finances are now a mess. A massive depndency on tenner-a-month subs. 10000 hours leaders have failed to sell the £25K memberships and even fell short on the £3K club. And that's before you consider the £600K gap in funding. We have gone from being able to progress this deal using grant money and quickly moving to real sums of money going into the football club to having years of debt. I was still swithering at that point. Now we have revelations about Bii - effectively a bank loan - not fancying the CIC being able to weather the upcoming financial storm from the scumgers fallout. I supported a financial positive move for the club - that is no longer what we have. We now have the last desperate attempts at making this happen at all costs. This is no longer a good deal for SMFC, and that is what really matters. It might not be fair John.But long last we have an answer to your u turn. To my eyes it doesn't make for good reading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 That is actually the polar opposite of what we have. We are trying to make sure that this only happens if it's right for us and the club. We are potentially holding on the hard earned cash of 1,000 St.Mirren fans and yet you (not one of those people) are actively criticising us for being unwilling to commit that money into buying the club when the financial environment around that club is very unrpedictable and very volatile. This is actually a great demonstration of how much 10000Hours values it's members finances and should be celebrated rather then being criticised. The fact that none of the members are criticising it (not a single member has pulled out since the statement yesterday) speaks volumes. This is the fouth time I am going to mention the fact that we still haven't been given the sign up numbers for the 87 club and the 1877 club. I would have hoped that one of the 10000 hours gang would have provided that information by now - has something previously posted on the front page of their website become commercially confidential? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted June 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 This is the fouth time I am going to mention the fact that we still haven't been given the sign up numbers for the 87 club and the 1877 club. I would have hoped that one of the 10000 hours gang would have provided that information by now - has something previously posted on the front page of their website become commercially confidential? Why have you quoted me then completely and utterly ignored the point I made and made a complete unrelated post ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 It might not be fair John. But long last we have an answer to your u turn. To my eyes it doesn't make for good reading I might be wrong Bud, but two years of experience has left me with very little confidence in the people that have had failure after failure in trying to get this off the ground. I don't see this changing after the deal is in place. There was a dependency on them delivering the intial funding - failure. They then had the task of bringing in the 1877 members - they appear to have failed in that too. It is hardly an inspiring track record to date. The big success has been the rank and file signing up and a lot of that has been down to the fans themselves - despite a lack of information from 10000 Hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Why have you quoted me then completely and utterly ignored the point I made and made a complete unrelated post ? I didn't ignore it, I never bothered to read it. Div, the big question coming out of the decision relates to 10000 hours funders not fancying 10000 hours ability to ride out a finacial incident. Why can't you recognise that as a concern? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted June 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Div, the big question coming out of the decision relates to 10000 hours funders not fancying 10000 hours ability to ride out a finacial incident. Why can't you recognise that as a concern? They are lending half a million quid to allow us to buy a business. Why can't you recognise that it is quite important to them to have assurances that the business we are buying is still going to be viable given that it is operating in an Industry (eg Scottish Football) which is currently surrounded by so much uncertainty. For the sake of another 3 weeks I think it is sensible for us all to wait and see what happens. I cannot understand why anyone would be suggesting it would be good for either St.Mirren or 10000Hours to push ahead with this deal right now. What difference does a few more weeks make versus the last two years ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I cannot understand why anyone would be suggesting it would be good for either St.Mirren or 10000Hours to push ahead with this deal right now. I'm not suggesting that we push the deal through now - I would like to see the consurtium pulling the plug on the entire thing now. It is a shambles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Feels like more than that to me but that's exactly why I will never sit in any board relating to the football club, I don't have thick enough skin for the job and am too easily offended. i've not got thick skin but i do have training on listening to people and weeding out what they really mean and/or want. i am immune to name calling and abuse as i focus on what i need to do for these people - e.g. being called a "feckin lying c*nt" etc, whilst doing all i can for folk but also using my "inquisitorial role" to dispense natural justice. but i don't have time for being on a board as i work during the day. perhaps retired people or people who are not able to work would be the best candidates - as long as they are of sound mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktf Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Yes, St Mirren's customers are people that attend games. Not all want 10000 Hours controlling the club - and most importantly 10000 Hours have no legal standing either in the club or as representatives of the St Mirren support. They can shove their scaremongering bollox - let ALL fans have a say, and to be frank even that would be a waste of time as we all know what fans want - a no vote. Most importantly? REA and CS have a legal standing within the club in that they are both directors and one of them is an official officer bearer as secretary. GLS also has a legal standing within the club as he owns a significant number of shares - enough to see him on the board of the football club is he chose to stand. As you continue to insist that 10000 Hours isn't the 1000 strong fan base that has sign up as members but the two or three who have put it together, by your own rationale 10000 Hours have a perfectly legitimate legal standing within the club. It's good to have cleared that lie up. Secondly, what is a legal standing to be representative of the St Mirren support? Ok, I'll answer that, there isn't such a thing. But morally, who has the right to claim that privilege if not 10000 Hours with their 1000 members? SMiSA with their 80 odd members? The things is, the selling consortium and the St Mirren BoD have decided to consult the fans on the NewCo issue. That was their choice, the fans have no right to this consultation. The BoD/Selling Consortium have chosen to ask 10000 Hours to carry out this consultation. Again, there is no obligation and so the fans have no right for complaint who carried it out. 10000 Hours are interested in buying the club and once they have they will have to have a system in place to gather the views on their members on loads of different issues. What better way of trialing this system than with the NewCo consultation that they have been asked by the BoD to carry out? Why would 10000 Hours then compromise a good chance to trial their systems in a live environment by opening it up to anyone who is interested in registering an opinion, like 2000 R*ngers fans? Or alternatively, why would they open it to those who have chosen not to sign up as members, who have not committed to supporting the company and, some of whom, are openly confrontational and abusive about the individuals who are at the centre of the company? John, if I could be bothered, I could do that with every one of your posts, but I don't have the time or the inclination. You stated in one thread a couple of months ago, before you sit the dummy and became a turncoat, that you could sink the CiC in a matter of days if you chose to... Conversely, you have helped contribute to 1000 members signing up in a matter of days! Everyone of your posts is lies, spin, nonsense, emotive drivel, inane ramblings and pish-soaked-bawbaggery (your own phrase ) It's become boring and repetitive and you have lost all of your forum credibility. To save myself the time that I would doubtless spend rubbishing another of your posts in a few days time when I have read enough of your shite again - I am putting you on ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) That is actually the polar opposite of what we have. We are trying to make sure that this only happens if it's right for us and the club. We are potentially holding on the hard earned cash of 1,000 St.Mirren fans and yet you (not one of those people) are actively criticising us for being unwilling to commit that money into buying the club when the financial environment around that club is very unrpedictable and very volatile. This is actually a great demonstration of how much 10000Hours values it's members finances and should be celebrated rather then being criticised. The fact that none of the members are criticising it (not a single member has pulled out since the statement yesterday) speaks volumes. Hear Hear.Financial prudence is what the whole cic procedure should be about. Start as you mean to carry on is always a good footing for any campaign Nobody pulling out is great news, but i would not expect anyone to renage on their commitment as it would mean they have signed up without considering the whole situation and are indeed not the type of members needed to make cic a success, so well done to all and keep the faith. ETA, note the line breaks Div Edited June 23, 2012 by buddiecat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mc Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 i've not got thick skin but i do have training on listening to people and weeding out what they really mean and/or want. i am immune to name calling and abuse as i focus on what i need to do for these people - e.g. being called a "feckin lying c*nt" etc, whilst doing all i can for folk but also using my "inquisitorial role" to dispense natural justice. but i don't have time for being on a board as i work during the day. perhaps retired people or people who are not able to work would be the best candidates - as long as they are of sound mind I presume Sid is retired given the time he is on here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 It's good to have cleared that lie up. ....if not 10000 Hours with their 1000 members? SMiSA with their 80 odd members? ....the fans have no right to this consultation. why would they open it to those who have chosen not to sign up as members, who have not committed to supporting the company and, some of whom, are openly confrontational and abusive about the individuals who are at the centre of the company? ....before you sit the dummy and became a turncoat, Everyone of your posts is lies, spin, nonsense, emotive drivel, inane ramblings and pish-soaked-bawbaggery (your own phrase ) It's become boring and repetitive and you have lost all of your forum credibility. To save myself the time that I would doubtless spend rubbishing another of your posts in a few days time when I have read enough of your shite again - I am putting you on ignore. I have highlighted some of the key points that you have made. Quite fun that it is people like ktf that have been accusing me of trying to split the "community". The turncoat accusation is the highlight of the bizarre rant from ktf. The reality is that this is about St Mirren. Are fans that do not support 10000 Hours takeover to be excommunicated from the St Mirren community? Should all non-CIC members stop supporting the club now that 10000 Hours have hitched their wagon up at St Mirren Park? Are the CIC members going to hold EGMs to ban season ticket holders from SMP if they don't buy into their bollox scheme? You can call me names all day long Bud, wasting your time - there's no ego here and I'm astonished that anyone would think I post on B&WArmy or the fishal site to try and build credability. I have considered my experience of 10000 hours, its behaviours and its performance to date and have concluded that they are so incompetent they are dangerous for the club. That's an opinion, not a lie. If you don't like it hey-ho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mc Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 People appear to get that. Everyone has their own opinion. You are effectively trying push yours at every possible opportunity. Why do you feel the need to post your opinion till people's ears are bleeding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I have highlighted some of the key points that you have made. Quite fun that it is people like ktf that have been accusing me of trying to split the "community". The turncoat accusation is the highlight of the bizarre rant from ktf. The reality is that this is about St Mirren. Are fans that do not support 10000 Hours takeover to be excommunicated from the St Mirren community? Should all non-CIC members stop supporting the club now that 10000 Hours have hitched their wagon up at St Mirren Park? Are the CIC members going to hold EGMs to ban season ticket holders from SMP if they don't buy into their bollox scheme? You can call me names all day long Bud, wasting your time - there's no ego here and I'm astonished that anyone would think I post on B&WArmy or the fishal site to try and build credability. I have considered my experience of 10000 hours, its behaviours and its performance to date and have concluded that they are so incompetent they are dangerous for the club. That's an opinion, not a lie. If you don't like it hey-ho! I agree some people seem to be under the illusion that cic membership affords them more credibility than other fans, I do not think they are consciously doing so, they just need to put mind in gear before typing.The fact is the BOD have decided to ask a fans group (the cic) for comment, and until we see the content of the questionaire we cannot tell the relevance of it being the only fans group asked to comment. I can only assume that it has a form of questioning which relates directly and solely to cic membership. You will have to ask the BOD why they are not staging a consultation of all fans, only they can answer that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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